Halal confusion

[GBintheUK]

I thought I understood what Halal was when it concerned meat we can eat etc but then I came across this article and it has got me thinking! It does make a lot of sense but would like to know what others think about what it says? I cannot post a link so here is the complete article:

[Article removed]

 

[greenhill]

"Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the Scripture (Jews & Christians) is lawful (halal) for you ......" 5:5
The Quranic law is for all times and thus this concession applied when the Quran was first revealed as well as it does today.

At first glance of the entire article it can sound convincing and quite simple too. Why not? But this 'was was' feeling bothered me. Few things said were 'in spirit' good but in reality not in keeping.

Foods of the people of the Scriptures were at one time slaughtered in the name of God, and as far as the jews and muslims are concern, I believe the practice is still 'ritualised'. I'm not sure of the 'Christian's' methods though. Their method does not drain out the blood in the manner which has been shown. But then again, it is not really the Christian's way, just the commercial and scientific way of doing business. Nothing religious about it.

So, can it be claimed to be halal? I'd still try to buy halal foods if I can. But of course, living in a muslim country that is not so difficult.

eace:

 

[GBintheUK]

Thanks for the reply. I also was a bit dubious about the article and that was the reason for me asking. I have read else where that the Prophet (PBUH) had said that if you are unsure if the food is halal to say bismillah and eat, which is basically what they are saying in the article. Obviously this is not directed at haram foods like pork etc but on the whole makes sense. Especially the bit about saying Allah's name during slaughtering just referring to the slaughter of the sacrificial animal during Hajj. As I don't live in a Muslim country is it acceptable for me to eat meat from my local supermarket, say bismillah and eat or is this haram? It's very confusing at times! Also I'm the only muslim in my family, my wife and children are not muslim.

 

[greenhill]

You are in a difficult position br. Allah knows best.

Mentioning of the slaughter during Hajj was for the occasion as it was the first and it was to reenact the slaughter like what prophet Ibrahim's pbuh had to do. To remind people of that sacrifice to Allah. But all animals to be killed for food will also need to be made in His name, not just for the Hajj.

eace:

 

[Muhammad]

Assalaamu Alaykum brother,

The article is very flawed. The fact that it only quotes from the Qur'an and makes no reference to the Sunnah or understanding of the Companions and Scholars should raise alarm bells. This is a method used by certain people who reject the Hadith as being a valid source of authority in Islam. Their claim of promoting a 'Qur'anic truth' is completely false because they ignore the commands in the Qur'an itself to refer to the Sunnah. When trying to find the source of this article, I noticed one of the websites where it was listed was clearly anti-Sunnah, so anything from that website must be avoided.

Moreover, rather than submitting to the guidance in the Qur'an and seeking to understand it correctly, Hadith-rejectors go against the intended and clear meaning of verses and twist them to suit their own ideas and desires, inventing baseless interpretations. There were examples of this in the article.

We have some threads on here regarding the status of the Sunnah, which might be helpful to you:

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/1063-general-article-status-sunnah-islam.html#post1031231
Introduction to the Sunnah
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/22043-legal-status-sunnah-islam.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth...mad-not-justfollow-thequraan.html#post1550724

You can also refer to good fatwa websites or people of knowledge in your locality for the correct understanding regarding conditions for meat to be Halal.

May Allaah bless us with knowledge and understanding of His religion, Aameen.

 

[GBintheUK]

Thanks for the reply, I will study the links you have provided.

 

[GBintheUK]

Thanks for the reply, I cannot post a link to the article and it has been deleted from my opening post. My question was with regards to buying meat from my local butcher/supermarket and if it was permissible to say (as the article implied) bismillah and then eat as I don't know if it has been slaughtered in the appropriate way or not. There was a big media backlash a few years ago in the UK over supermarkets selling halal products but not labelling them as such, so they are now being very reticent about saying what is and isn't halal!

 

[M.I.A.]

Thanks for the reply, I cannot post a link to the article and it has been deleted from my opening post. My question was with regards to buying meat from my local butcher/supermarket and if it was permissible to say (as the article implied) bismillah and then eat as I don't know if it has been slaughtered in the appropriate way or not. There was a big media backlash a few years ago in the UK over supermarkets selling halal products but not labelling them as such, so they are now being very reticent about saying what is and isn't halal!

i guess there is a difference between the willingness to sell halal and the responsibility to consider it important.. which is worrying.

imo its a big missed opportunity for mainstream retailers but the bottom line is always cost of implementation.

on the flip side, i have worked in retail.. most local butchers in my area have been close to scandal.

the bottom line is nearly always cost.

truly ethical halal products would increase the cost, similarly to free range products.. its a niche market im told.

(you could tackle the problem at the source but it requires a lot of investment.. unfortunately no ruling body in the uk thinks it viable..probably)

i guess if it was that easy then it would have been done already.. the difference between things people want and what god wills.

 

[greenhill]

There was a big media backlash a few years ago in the UK over supermarkets selling halal products but not labelling them as such

I missed this. But then again I miss quite a lot of happenings around the world.

Why was there a massive media backlash? Was it the muslims who were up in arms about it because it could have saved them a lot of hassle if they knew the available meat were halal or was it the non muslims angered because they did not know they were eating halal meat?

Or was it something else totally?


eace:

 

[GBintheUK]

I missed this. But then again I miss quite a lot of happenings around the world.

Why was there a massive media backlash? Was it the muslims who were up in arms about it because it could have saved them a lot of hassle if they knew the available meat were halal or was it the non muslims angered because they did not know they were eating halal meat?

Or was it something else totally?


eace:

It was mainly about non muslims buying halal products and not knowing. The Daily Mail being the mail instigator. People are quite happy to order their curries etc which is more than likely to contain halal meat but the thought of it being sold in the local supermarket gets their blood boiling! Doesn't make sense to me! Cannot post a link but if you search for halal meat secretly sold in UK supermarkets the Daily Mail article is usually at the top of google.

 

[GBintheUK]

Has anyone got a link or advice regarding my question about purchasing meat from a local butcher/supermarket?

 

[Muhammad]

Assalaamu Alaykum,

We need to separate two issues here. There is the issue of saying Bismillah over any meat on one's plate to make it Halal (which was also a key focus in the original article). I think we can clarify this point in this thread.

Then there is a different issue of buying meat from non-Muslim places and considering it being from the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), in light of the ruling that the meat slaughtered by the People of the Book is Halal for us. This point is one which needs deeper research and scholarly input, in terms of the conditions and guidelines of eating meat from the People of the Book.

Question
when I came to Germany I met Muslims who told me that if the meat (Chicken or beef or lamb) is not slaughtered by a Muslim or using the Islamic way, it is haram to eat it. I always thought when I eat any meats {non-pork }, if I say Bismillah before eating it, it is halal all the time I buy meats from the stores and had no idea that it is haram. Meat slaughtered by Muslims is available at a driving distance and always more expensive, but I can afford it .


Answer

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

It is forbidden for the Muslim to eat the meat of an animal that is not slaughtered according to Shari'a as Allah says: {Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maytatah (the dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and the meat of that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allâh, or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allâh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on AnNusub (stone altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision, (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allâh and sin). ………..} [5:3]

The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) also said: "when an animal is slaughtered (according to Shari'a) and the name of Allah is mentioned on it, then eat from its meat." [ al-Bukhari ].

It is a condition that the slaughterer be a Muslim or somebody from the people of the Book (Christian or Jew) as Allah says: {Made lawful to you this day are AtTayyibât [all kinds of Halâl (lawful) foods, which Allâh has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. ………..} [5:5].

As for the pagan, the idolator, the atheist or the communist, the meat of animals slaughtered by them is unlawful for Muslims.
Saying Bismillah does not make the meat lawful to Muslims if it is not from an animal slaughtered by Muslims, Jews or Christians.
It is true that Al Bukhari reported the following from Aisha that she said: "O Allah's Apostle! Meat is brought to us by some people and we are not sure whether the name of Allah has been mentioned on it or not (at the time of slaughtering the animals)." Allah's Apostle said (to them), "Mention the name of Allah and eat it." But this is not an evidence that saying Bismillah on some meat that is not slaughtered legally according to Shari'a, makes that meat lawful for us. The issue in the Hadith is about whether those Muslims who slaughtered the animal (according to Shari'a) said Bismillah or not.
So, the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) told Aisha and indeed the address is to all Muslims to say Bismillah and eat from that meat on which Bismillah might not have been said when slaughtering.
Allah knows best.
www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=85422
​

Also:

As for the claim that some make, that it is enough merely to mention the name of Allaah when eating, this was reported regarding some Muslims who were new in Islam. The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about this, saying, “O Messenger of Allaah, some people who are new in Islam brought us some meat, and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Say the name of Allaah over it and eat it.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari). The command should be understood as meaning that one should be on the safe side, provided that one does not know beforehand that the meat is not slaughtered properly. And Allaah knows best.
​

http://islamqa.info/en/3261

And:


Q.) Some people in the Arab countries say that as per some hadith whose meaning is something like this "That people asked as to whether we should eat from food offered from people of other religions, as we do not know of if it is Halal or not" upon which the answer from the Holy Prophet

was that say Bismillah and eat." I do not know the exact words nor I know this hadith. Please advice. Wassalam. Hasan - Jeddah.


A.) The Hadith in the question is incorrectly quoted.


The Hadith in reference is quoted in Bukhari. The Sahaba, Radi-Allahu anhum, enquired from Rasulullah

about the meat slaughtered by the A’araab (Muslims living in the outskirts). Since they have recently accepted Islam and the Sahaba, Radi-Allahu anhum, did not witness the slaughtering and the Tasmiyah (reciting of Bismillah) during the slaughter, that created a doubt in them.


Upon that, Rasulullah

said, "You say Bismillah and eat the meat." In other words, you do what you are supposed to do, that is, recite Bismillah before eating and do not have a baseless doubt as the animal is slaughtered by Muslims who must have recited Tasmiyah before slaughtering. The order to recite Bismillah and eat was not as a substitute for the Bismillah at the time of slaughtering. (Fathul Bari; Ibn Hajar)


It is not permissible to purchase meat from non-Muslim outlets and simply recite Bismillah and eat it.


And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai



​

The original article preposterously claimed that the whole method of slaughtering is unnecessary to make an animal Halal to eat. It was twisting verses from the Qur'an, claiming that their reference to mentioning the Name of Allaah actually referred to the time of eating food, not at the time of slaughter. I came across a partial answer to this point, although it is from a website I don't know much about hence cannot recommend it. I am simply quoting the part that seems like a relevant response to clarify any doubt:

Q. 1. How does verse 6:121 indicate pronouncing the name of Allah at the time of slaughter?

A. If verse 6:121 (Do not eat from the one on which Allah’s name has not been pronounced, for it’s clear transgression) does not mean that we have to eat from the meat of only those animals who were slaughtered in a way that Allah’s name was pronounced at the time of doing that, what else then does it mean? A good way of understanding the meanings of this verse is to try to logically understand the alternate view. According to that view, if we eat anything in a way that we pronounce bismillah before doing so, it would be an acceptable way. What it would mean then is that if we eat edibles without pronouncing bismillah before doing so, we will be committing clear transgression. In other words, even while eating rice, sweets, or anything, if the ritual is not adopted we will be sinners. Is that a correct understanding? The fact of the matter is that the passage of surah An’am is discussing the issue of pronouncing Allah’s name while slaughtering animals. The other issue (saying bismillah at the time of eating) is not even discussed anywhere in the surah or the entire Qur’an. The Qur’an is not a book of scattered injunctions which are unrelated to the theme of the chapter which discusses them. It is an extremely coherent book.

In fact, the verse can in no way be translated to mean what you are suggesting. The wordings of the verse are “Do not eat from the one on which Allah’s name has not been pronounced, for its clear transgression”. In case your suggested meanings were correct, the Qur’an should have said “pronounce Allah’s name while eating”. The words “on which Allah’s name has not been pronounced’ can only be used for the act of pronouncing it at the time of slaughtering animal. If your pronouncing of Allah’s name was to do the trick, the verb should have been active (pronounce Allah’s name, after you have pronounced Allah’s name etc.). However, if the matter has to do with the act of pronouncing the name by somebody else (which would be case if it is slaughtered by someone who pronounces Allah’s name), then the verb should be passive (Allah’s name has been pronounced), as is the case in the verse 6:121.

To end, let us remember the well-known hadeeth:
On the authority of Abu 'Abdullah al-Nu'man bin Bashir :ra: who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah say:
“That which is lawful is clear and that which is unlawful is clear and between the two of them are doubtful [or ambiguous] matters about which not many people are knowledgeable. Thus, he who avoids these doubtful matters certainly clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor. But he who falls into the doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Verily every king has a sanctuary and Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibition. In the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be sound, all the body is sound and which, if it be diseased, all the body is diseased. This part of the body is the heart”. [Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

So the Muslim must strive to avoid what is obviously haraam, and be cautious of doubtful things, and be keen to keep his religious commitment safe and to protect his body from haram foods.

And Allaah knows best.

 

[Muhaba]

You can ask your local butcher what method they use to slaughter the animal and who does the slaughtering, etc. You may be able to find kosher products which (I believe) are prepared according to orthodox Jewish methods so I believe those would come under the "food of the People of the Book." You should also ask an Islamic scholar about fish. I'm not sure but I think fish tends to be halal no matter who does the fishing. There's no slaughtering involved. So if you can't find halal meat, then use fish instead. Ask your nearest masjid about where you can get halal meat.

Alternately, when you can't get halal meat, use vegetables and beans, dairy products like yogurt, milk, eggs and halal cheese, etc. Beans and lentils are second-class proteins so are a replacement for meat. Dairy products are also an alternative. However, you need to be careful about cheese since it can be haram. Some cheese is made with enzymes from haram animals.

 

[GBintheUK]

I didn't know that about cheeses! Will look into that next, thanks for the heads up! Thank you all for your informative replies, you've given me a lot to go on and I will be studying it a lot of the coming days!