Hamas Full Control Of Gaza!

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abumusa said:
Well i dont want to continue this convo because:

1. I believe America have occupied, invaders and crusaders
2. I believe "Insurgents" are home grown mainly, with other muslim helpers from sorrounding nations. And i call them freedom fighters not "Insurgents".

So lets agree to disagree on these points.

I support the Mujahideen in their aim of freeing Iraq, etc. But we cannot support them in actions that violate the Sharia. i.e. Innocent Civilians, Women and Children.

We praise for thier good acts i.e. the legitimate resistance like Fallujah.

We condemn them for killing innocents i.e. the bombs.

Brothers dont believe evrything you hear from the western media. Sometimes we can get the info from ourside.

i.e. As-Sahab, Al Jazeera
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I can agree to disagree, and I will continue to evaluate and re-evaluate all of my opinions and sources. I would also encourage you to do the same.
 
Also we condemn kidnapping journalists etc. This is because this harms the legitimare resistance.

Although we condemn we must understand. In Iraq it is like 9/11 everyday.

"In Iraq, they tell you there's a smell of death - and there is.
It's nasty, it makes you nauseous. You end up having to shoot the dogs - because you'll see dogs in the street with human parts, like hands, in their mouths."

American "Muslim" Marine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6230498.stm
 
Also we condemn kidnapping journalists etc. This is because this harms the legitimare resistance.
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because this harms the legitimare resistance? So you would have no problem with kidnaping if it helped. How about killing someone not involved if you thought is would help the resistance?
What wouldn't you do to help the resistance?
 
As i have mentioned before Islam does not permit murder of innocent people. As a by-product kidnapping journalists fuels hatred twards the jidnappers.

i.e. It harms LEGITIMATE resistance i.e. Iraaq, Afghaanistan.

How can iraqi born people fighting the americans be Insurgents?

They really have us fooled :)
 
abumusa said:
How can iraqi born people fighting the americans be Insurgents?
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You seem to be forgetting that the 'insurgents' principal enemy is not Americans, but other Iraqis. It's not American troops that are found in the mosques and markets that have been bombed. It's a battle for control of post-Saddam Iraq. Many of the 'insurgents' are effectively remnants of Saddam's regime and are, if anything, rather less 'Islamic' than the Shi'a groups they are fighting. Others are just outsiders there to cause trouble and fight Americans because they will fight Americans anywhere for as long as it takes for the locals to get sick of them.

Believe it or not the Americans have no intention of occupying 'land' or all the other tosh we frequently see here. Continued involvement in Iraq is a huge political downer, and will be for whoever is in office. There is nothing even Bush would love more than to be able to order all of them home tomorrow. They remain because the democratically elected Iraqi government wish them to remain - not because they particularly like Americans but because they know the country will descend into a blood-bath if they just packed up and went. Many Democrat and not a few Republican politicians still want to bring them home even knowing that.

It is ridiculous to talk of legitimate 'resistance', a fantasy world with no relation to what is actually happening. Who are they 'resisting'? Who is denying them their 'freedom' and what would they do with it if they had it? Although the Americans are supporting one side it is a civil war - Iraqi against Iraqi, muslim against muslim.
 
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It is ridiculous to talk of "American Help". Thats a fantasy world with no relation to what is actually happening.

Who are they 'Helping'? Who is denying them their 'withdrawal'?

Oil :)
 
Wow this thread has moved along? Anyway the West's decision ignoring Hamas i feel is a big mistake. I think that if we look at the real issues Hamas are the only ones that care about them. There is no point in denying that curroption has more potential to exist in Fatah than Hamas. People like Khaled Mishal and Ishmial Haniya will not allow it. So on that basis Hamas are the ones that have the best capabilities in bringing peace to the region. I hope they can take over the West Bank as well, but lets hope this unity thing works out.....thats if Fatah allow it to.
 
abumusa said:
It is ridiculous to talk of "American Help". Thats a fantasy world with no relation to what is actually happening.

Who are they 'Helping'? Who is denying them their 'withdrawal'?

Oil :)
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Ridiculous? Not quite, the Iraqi government, elected by the Iraqi people (that were being blown up at the polls) has made it clear many times (in fact they have begged) that they wish for the US to stay and continue to train police, military, etc., so that they may provide themselves with their own security. That is the only reason that the US is still in Iraq, to help provide security. You then put oil with a smiley, well I am smiling right back at your incredible ignorance, please provide anything showing that the US has or will ever recieve a single drop of free oil. Since you are new to this site, I will tell you that the US has not, and in fact, we get most of our oil not from the M.E. but from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. The American people are paying an average of $3 per gallon right now for oil, and it hasnt slowed anyone down, why would we want to steal it?
 
SATalha said:
There is no point in denying that curroption has more potential to exist in Fatah than Hamas. People like Khaled Mishal and Ishmial Haniya will not allow it. So on that basis Hamas are the ones that have the best capabilities in bringing peace to the region.
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I agree about the corruption BUT that doesn't automatically mean that they have the best capabilties in bringing peace. Abbas is smart, he's coy, he's a good politician, whereas Hamas are too honest and straightforward and this is NOT a good thing to be at this time. Not to mention the rockets and suicide bombers who aren't doing anything but creating trouble. If Hamas were smarter and became better politicians AND stopped with the dumb attacks then they could really have the capabilities to bring peace, but from where things stand now...I'm afraid they just don't have them.
 
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Yes your right in the sense that their political game needs to be more clever, although i think that they are trying there best. I mean their main leader is in exile, Isreal is trying to wipe them out. Rantisi and Sheikh Yaseen have been murdered. And many of their members are in jail with no convictions. I take my hat off to them that they are still in operation. But we are agreed with other members on this forum that Hamas should stop the rocket attacks and suicide bombings. I also think that it needs to be highlighted that its not only Hamas's armed unit that carries out suicide bombings, its Fatah as well.
 
Keltoi said:
I would laugh hysterically at this question...if it wasn't so depressing.
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Laugh as you want :) LOL .. I want to know your veiw about it, yeah maybe it's just a rubbish, but you can't be ignorant of them racialism, it's the reality that you can't disprove it.

you can resume your hysterical laugh Now .. peace

Trumble said:
Oh, good grief. Don't say that rubbish is still being peddled in your part of the world? It's a totally fraudulent piece of anti-semetic trash.
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yes it's .. and I know what you just tell me.
actually I want to thank you because you enter us in the piont that I want to discuss about when I write my Question.

ANTI-SEMETIC .. can you please define this word: semetic?

don't tell me it's means Jews ..

peace
 
mariam. said:
Laugh as you want :) LOL .. I want to know your veiw about it, yeah maybe it's just a rubbish, but you can't be ignorant of them racialism, it's the reality that you can't disprove it.

you can resume your hysterical laugh Now .. peace



yes it's .. and I know what you just tell me.
actually I want to thank you because you enter us in the piont that I want to discuss about when I write my Question.

ANTI-SEMETIC .. can you please define this word: semetic?

don't tell me it's means Jews ..

peace
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What do I think about it? I think it is a racist fear-mongering propoganda tool for those who wish to justify their hatred for Jews. Knowing that this is a forged piece of racist garbage...I have no feelings about it whatsoever in the context of the Jewish people.

As for anti-semetic, that is the term most used to describe those who have racial hatred for the Jewish people. Yes, Arabs are considered to be "semetic" as well, but in the popular language we all know what "anti-semetic" means.
 
SATalha said:
I also think that it needs to be highlighted that its not only Hamas's armed unit that carries out suicide bombings, its Fatah as well.
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Wow, is this true? I do remember hearing something like this, but I guess I just never paid any attention to it. Do you have any sources for this?

And secondly...they need a new leader. Someone wise, a politician, but at the same time a good Muslim. They'd also have to keep him in the shadows and make sure nobody knows of his existance lest he become another target for Israel. That's what I would do if I were them.
 
Keltoi, there is loads of hatred for arabs, and i know that without a doubt because i have seen it, seen people insulting arabs and calling them evil names.


Therefore anti semitism also includes Arabs, since they too are the children of Abraham (peace be upon him.)



Regards.
 
mariam. said:
ANTI-SEMETIC .. can you please define this word: semetic?

don't tell me it's means Jews ..
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'Semetic' is "an adjective referring to the peoples who have traditionally spoken Semitic languages or to things pertaining to them". And yes, I know that includes Arabs.

However,

Despite the use of the prefix "anti," the terms Semitic and Anti-Semitic are not antonyms. To avoid the confusion of the misnomer, many scholars on the subject (such as Emil Fackenheim of the Hebrew University) now favor the unhyphenated term antisemitism. Yehuda Bauer articulated this view in his writings and lectures: (the term) "Antisemitism, especially in its hyphenated spelling, is inane nonsense, because there is no Semitism that you can be anti to."
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The term anti-Semitism has historically referred to prejudice towards Jews alone, and this was the only use of this word for more than a century. It does not traditionally refer to prejudice toward other people who speak Semitic languages (e.g. Arabs or Syriacs). Bernard Lewis, Professor of Near Eastern Studies Emeritus at Princeton University, says that "Anti-Semitism has never anywhere been concerned with anyone but Jews."
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Source
 
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Trumble ^ who came up with that article? Why should it refer to Jews only? If arabs speak semetic languages, and anyone is anti arab, or jewish, or syriac - then yeah, it should be termed as anti-semetic. That guys authority is nothing, if it's lenient upon his own race. If someones anti black, it doesn't mean it's just anyone who's from Nigeria for example, it's anyone who's black. And there isn't an exception to that.


anti:

    1. Opposite: antimere.
    2. Opposing; against: antiapartheid.
    3. Counteracting; neutralizing: antacid.
    4. Destroying: antiaircraft.
    1. Inverse: antilogarithm.
    2. Displaying opposite characteristics: antihero.
[Greek, from anti, opposite.]



http://www.answers.com/anti&r=67




Regards.
 
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Israel under pressure to free Fatah leader who could hold key to peace
ANNETTE YOUNG
IN JERUSALEM
SPECULATION is growing that Israel may stage a dramatic U-turn and release the imprisoned Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti as part of a move to stabilise the West Bank.

Barghouti, 48, is serving five life terms in an Israeli jail for killing five people and belonging to a militant organisation, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade.

Fluent in Hebrew and English, and viewed by many Israelis as a pragmatist who favours negotiations with the Jewish state, he has enormous popularity in the Palestinian street. Many international experts see him as the best hope for peace in the area.

Hope this helps.
 
So, you know what it's mean .. then why this partial view?

Keltoi said:
I think it is a racist fear-mongering propoganda tool for those who wish to justify their hatred for Jews. Knowing that this is a forged piece of racist garbage
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please .. I want you to understand that we don't hate jews, but yea, we hate Israel.

that's completely different.
peace
 

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