it's not offensive, or too incorrect, rather tempers flare when such core matters are discussed, keep trying
, I might not agree with every single detail, but I commend your efforts
Harmony between the Bible and the Qur'an
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it's not offensive, or too incorrect, rather tempers flare when such core matters are discussed, keep trying
, I might not agree with every single detail, but I commend your effortscan you point out where I did what he alleges?it's not offensive, or too incorrect, rather tempers flare when such core matters are discussed, keep trying
you mean that it can be translated as he was killed and he was crucified?
can you break it down for me word for word. after all I am only an illiterate non Arab
also can you show me how and why he associated me whit this anty karatekid person?
doorster, I meant it generally, and no , I don't mean like he was killed and crucified by them since that would contradict the qur'an.
he accepted our prophet as such,although he had some misunderstanding about the muslim position on the death of Jesus and so on, I consider this to be an improvement on the ones who reject it all as false.
since I wasn't following this thread much, I wasn't making specific remarks on any single person. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, and please don't disparage yourself like that, non arab and illiterate are not synonymous.
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that is the only thing I openly differed with him on, I was the one who rated the thread tops, I was the one who reported trolls to stop them messing it up, yet I am the one who is accused by him.
I was and am willing to be Brothers with those who let me believe what I believe, but there are people who will only accept me as brother if I believe what they want me to believe but I have no time for those people.
BTW I am trying to retire or at least take a break from this den of misguidance for the duration of the break of one of my brothers in faith, because without his presence I get harassment from little kiddies and fraudsters via PMs etc. so excuse me if I do not reply until about May time
wa Salam
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Walter
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Hi Doorester:
Let me apologize to you, for you appear to be offended. I do appreciate your efforts in this thread, and my last post was venting a little frustration on my part.
I was led to believe that you actually read the book. I was excited at the thought of finally conversing with someone who had read it, because it is quite a remarkable and comprehensive study. The author spent 30 years studying the over 20,000 pages of early church history to see where potential misinterpretations could have been made, and then found harmony after conducting a comparative analysis of both books. Then it became clear that you had not read it at all and we are frustratingly back at square one.
Let me apologize to you, for you appear to be offended. I do appreciate your efforts in this thread, and my last post was venting a little frustration on my part.
I was led to believe that you actually read the book. I was excited at the thought of finally conversing with someone who had read it, because it is quite a remarkable and comprehensive study. The author spent 30 years studying the over 20,000 pages of early church history to see where potential misinterpretations could have been made, and then found harmony after conducting a comparative analysis of both books. Then it became clear that you had not read it at all and we are frustratingly back at square one.
bibleblevr
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I have some questions for Muslims regarding the bible:
1 Is the Bible considered true in your religion, if so why do you contradict Jesus's claim to be the son of God which is the base of Christianity.
2 Was Mohammad originally a christian before he received his prophetic revelation and if he wasn't than why did he base so much of the Koran off the Bible .
3 Finally what part of the Koran disagrees with the bible and if no part disagrees and it is basically a repeat of the what the bible says, than why did a religion begin from it.
Thank you, and May God Bless you in your quest to know him better.
1 Is the Bible considered true in your religion, if so why do you contradict Jesus's claim to be the son of God which is the base of Christianity.
2 Was Mohammad originally a christian before he received his prophetic revelation and if he wasn't than why did he base so much of the Koran off the Bible .
3 Finally what part of the Koran disagrees with the bible and if no part disagrees and it is basically a repeat of the what the bible says, than why did a religion begin from it.
Thank you, and May God Bless you in your quest to know him better.
bibleblevr
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doing good,
"What do I think the Two greatest commandments meant?"--- I think That is self explanatory love the lord with all your heart, mind and spirit and love your neighbor as your self.
I haven't been following the thread so why do you ask?
"What do I think the Two greatest commandments meant?"--- I think That is self explanatory love the lord with all your heart, mind and spirit and love your neighbor as your self.
I haven't been following the thread so why do you ask?
From what I see here is that brothers, step brothers, and Adopted brothers have a lot of reasons to fight, but they do not have to fight each other.
Ephesians 6:"12": For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Acts 1:"38": And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
"39": But if it'> be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Ephesians 6:"12": For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Acts 1:"38": And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
"39": But if it'> be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Greetings
I think if I answer the questions the thread will change its goal....
I hope you start new thread with the same questions...
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
thank you for your interest in Islam.
in answering your questions:
1. NO, the bible is NOT considered true, but does contain bits and pieces of Truth. thus, Jews and "Christians" are sometimes referred to as "People of the Book."
2, the premise of this question is FALSE. Muhammad ibn Abdullah, pbuh, did NOT write the Qur'an. the Qur'an is the literal Word of Our Creator and your Creator.
3. because the original Messsage of Jesus/Isa ibm Marriam,pbuh, was only intended for the lost sheep of Israel and because no contemporaneous writings are left of him, it was necessary for Our Creator to send a Scripture that a) could not be corrupted and b) was for all mankind, we yet again return to the Religion of our father in faith Ibrahim, pbuh. Islam is NOT new, some parts of the Shariah ay be different than previous Ummahs, but the basic tenets of the faith, Islamic Monotheism are the same.
Walter
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Hi Bibleblevr:
For completion, let me provide a response to your questions from another perspective. But first, a little preamble so that you, as a Christian, may understand this perspective better.
We Christians believe that God’s revelation is contained in our Bible. That has been and will always be an uncompromising non-negotiating position for us. Muslims believe that God’s revelation is contained in the Qur’an, and that has been and will always be an uncompromising non-negotiating position for them.
Fortunately, a scientific comparative analysis of both books can be made to see whether there is harmony between the teachings of both books. A comprehensive study has been undertaken, assuming that both books are entirely correct. The study found that there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, and that harmony was reached without damaging the integrity or compromising the teachings of any verse in the Bible or Qur’an.
The study is called Brothers Kept Apart and you are urged to read it. I believe that the only rational conclusion anyone can come to after reading the book, is that Christians and Muslims are brother who have been needlessly kept apart for that past 1,300 years.
Now to your questions.
The concept of Son of God described in the Bible is not the same concept in the Qur’an; hence there is no contradiction. Mohammed was preaching a departure from the polytheistic religions of the region to the one God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He found the Greek and Roman religious ideas of gods compounding through sexual intercourse repulsive. Since you have not read the book, you may not be aware that the concept of the trinity taught to Mohammed was of father, mother and son. Even Christians find this concept offensive.
The evidence is that he belonged to a tribe of decedents of Ishmael, the first born son of Abraham, whom God declared that He would make a great nation. God also made this promise to Abraham’s younger son, Isaac. God sent prophets to the Israelites when they strayed from fulfilling their purpose as recorded in the Bible. Therefore, it is not inconceivable that God would send a prophet to the Ishmaelites if they too strayed.
By the time of Mohamed, the Ishmaelites had forsaken the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and turned to polytheism. Mohammed called the people back to a relationship with the one God of their forbearers. While his first wife was alive, his message was very similar to that of Jesus. Also, if God is the source of the revelation, then we should expect harmony.
As explained in the preamble, the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an are in harmony. A new religion started because at the time, our Christian religion had developed traditions that were not supported by the Bible. There are over 20,000 early church manuscripts that describe the development of these traditions. It should be noted that the Bible remained unchanged, but Christian tradition changed.
All of the evidence is available in Brothers Kept Apart, which is the culmination of 30 years of research.
Regards,
Grenville
For completion, let me provide a response to your questions from another perspective. But first, a little preamble so that you, as a Christian, may understand this perspective better.
We Christians believe that God’s revelation is contained in our Bible. That has been and will always be an uncompromising non-negotiating position for us. Muslims believe that God’s revelation is contained in the Qur’an, and that has been and will always be an uncompromising non-negotiating position for them.
Fortunately, a scientific comparative analysis of both books can be made to see whether there is harmony between the teachings of both books. A comprehensive study has been undertaken, assuming that both books are entirely correct. The study found that there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, and that harmony was reached without damaging the integrity or compromising the teachings of any verse in the Bible or Qur’an.
The study is called Brothers Kept Apart and you are urged to read it. I believe that the only rational conclusion anyone can come to after reading the book, is that Christians and Muslims are brother who have been needlessly kept apart for that past 1,300 years.
Now to your questions.
The Qur’an instructs Muslims to believe the books sent before. It should be noted that the Bible was compiled as a single document 200 years before Mohammed, and the Gospel was available in Arabic centuries before Mohammed.
The concept of Son of God described in the Bible is not the same concept in the Qur’an; hence there is no contradiction. Mohammed was preaching a departure from the polytheistic religions of the region to the one God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He found the Greek and Roman religious ideas of gods compounding through sexual intercourse repulsive. Since you have not read the book, you may not be aware that the concept of the trinity taught to Mohammed was of father, mother and son. Even Christians find this concept offensive.
The evidence is that he belonged to a tribe of decedents of Ishmael, the first born son of Abraham, whom God declared that He would make a great nation. God also made this promise to Abraham’s younger son, Isaac. God sent prophets to the Israelites when they strayed from fulfilling their purpose as recorded in the Bible. Therefore, it is not inconceivable that God would send a prophet to the Ishmaelites if they too strayed.
By the time of Mohamed, the Ishmaelites had forsaken the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and turned to polytheism. Mohammed called the people back to a relationship with the one God of their forbearers. While his first wife was alive, his message was very similar to that of Jesus. Also, if God is the source of the revelation, then we should expect harmony.
As explained in the preamble, the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an are in harmony. A new religion started because at the time, our Christian religion had developed traditions that were not supported by the Bible. There are over 20,000 early church manuscripts that describe the development of these traditions. It should be noted that the Bible remained unchanged, but Christian tradition changed.
All of the evidence is available in Brothers Kept Apart, which is the culmination of 30 years of research.
Regards,
Grenville
Pygoscelis
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For years now I have had a bible and a quran sitting on a shelf together side by side in my living room. I am waiting for them to spontaneously combust. Then maybe I'll have to reconsider being an atheist. 
Walter
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For years now I have had a bible and a quran sitting on a shelf together side by side in my living room. I am waiting for them to spontaneously combust. Then maybe I'll have to reconsider being an atheist.
Hi Pygoscelis:
They will never combust because they are generally in harmony. It is the adherents of each tradition who be in conflict so long as they are focused on defending their traditions rather than seeking for the Truth.
Regards,
Grenville
AntiKarateKid
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And here I was thinking that the Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor towards you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”(Al-Ma’idah 5:3)
With regards to religion, there is nothing a Muslim can learn from a Christian that Islam doesn't already teach or correct.
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor towards you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”(Al-Ma’idah 5:3)
With regards to religion, there is nothing a Muslim can learn from a Christian that Islam doesn't already teach or correct.
Walter
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Hi AKK:
Let us examine the verse that you provided.
From this, your interpretation is:
“Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.”
It is these types of Islamic traditional interpretations that have kept Christians and Muslims apart for the past 1,300 years.
Let us examine the verse that you provided.
This day
That is very specific.I have perfected your religion for you,
That is very specific to Mohammed.completed My favor towards you,
That is also very specific to Mohammed.and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
Again, very specific to Mohammed.From this, your interpretation is:
“Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.”
It is these types of Islamic traditional interpretations that have kept Christians and Muslims apart for the past 1,300 years.
AntiKarateKid
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Peace Grenville,
For your explanation to be true it would mean that Prophet Muhammad pbuh was only a messenger to the arabs.
Your attempts at dismissing the fundamental tenets of Islam have reached a low point in tenuousness.
1. That Islam was reveled for all of mankind is unanimously accepted by all Muslims.
2. If It was revealed to only the arabs, then how come Allah addresses MANKIND and NEVER the arabs specifically with regards to following Islam?
3. Your views have no basis in the Quran, the hadith, or any slight shed of Islamic proof. You interpret based on your own opinions and desires.
I challenge you to show that Muhammad was a messenger to only the arabs because it is a great thing you're claiming here.
Oh btw, some of the companions of the Prophet were non-arab migrants from places like India who were instructed to travel back and spread Islam. So please... Islam is for all mankind, and is the only acceptable thing for Allah, since it was the only thing ever given by him.
It your type of interpretation...nay you don't even use the sources so how can you interpret... it is your opinions that deter people from the ultimate truth of Allah
Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all (Quran 7:158)
"And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)." (Al Anbia’:107)
“And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.” (Saba’:28)
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Walter
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Hi AKK:
You have simply misunderstood the post. You quoted a verse that was specific to Mohammed and gave it a shocking interpretation that was completely unsupported by the verse. I merely explained that it was this type of behavior that has kept Christians and Muslims apart for the past 1,300 years. What behavior? The Christian and Muslim behavior of promoting their religious traditions that are unsupported by their principal texts.
Your Islamic traditional teaching that “Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.” cannot be supported by any interpretation of the verse that you quoted unless you severely damage the verse’ integrity.
Was Mohammed’s message of forsaking idols and submitting to the One and Only God, who is identified as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Of course this message is for all of mankind. But let us try to separate the truth of the Qur’an from the Islamic traditions that are not supported by the Qur’an and which constitute a barrier to other persons who also submit to this God.
Regards.
You have simply misunderstood the post. You quoted a verse that was specific to Mohammed and gave it a shocking interpretation that was completely unsupported by the verse. I merely explained that it was this type of behavior that has kept Christians and Muslims apart for the past 1,300 years. What behavior? The Christian and Muslim behavior of promoting their religious traditions that are unsupported by their principal texts.
Your Islamic traditional teaching that “Quran was the final revelation. And that Allah and the Prophet pbuh described Christianity and its tenets as a perversion of monotheism.” cannot be supported by any interpretation of the verse that you quoted unless you severely damage the verse’ integrity.
Was Mohammed’s message of forsaking idols and submitting to the One and Only God, who is identified as the God worshipped by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Of course this message is for all of mankind. But let us try to separate the truth of the Qur’an from the Islamic traditions that are not supported by the Qur’an and which constitute a barrier to other persons who also submit to this God.
Regards.