Has a Happy Person Ever Become Atheist?

[fawad]

Thankyou for completely ignoring my last post! Really, I enjoy repeating myself.

The existence of suffering and evil is one of the reasons people choose to become atheists because they think that if there was a benevolent God, stuff liek that wouldn't happen. See, again, "the problem of evil" which has been used to attack theists by atheists. The existence of suffering doesn't lead a person to believe. Rather, belief would help them persevere.

You see that in one case suffering is the reason (atheists) and in the other suffering is not the reason (theists).

Here's what I am getting from whatever you have mentioned so far

...You are saying that atheists do not believe in god because there is so much suffering and they say that if there was a god, how could there be so much suffering?....

If that is what you meant, then I am afraid I do not agree with you.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I think I've met more atheists and spoken to them about their apostacy than most here. I have met extremely few that mentioned suffering in the world as a reason for their loss of faith, and hundreds that lost faith due to questioning, reading the holy texts, and just not being able to believe it anymore.

Read Bruce Husberger and Bob Altmeyer's book "Amazing Conversions". They did a big study on exactly this with thousands of apostates and converts. I don't think it suprises too many people what they found. They essentially found that converts feel their way into religion and apostates think their way out of it. Most converts found joy in their conversion and most apostates found pain (but a feeling of being honest with oneself) in their deconversion. Both reported the experience to be "Freeing".

Although the problem of evil is an argument atheists use (and a pretty darn good one if the God is claimed to be both all-loving and all-powerful), it is rarely the reason for apostacy.

 

[Trumble]

Its relevant because contrary to what you are saying, there exists many people who either converted or reverted to Islam (or other religions) because they experienced some suffering when they made this decision and tried to console themselves or find a way out of that. This is contradictory to what you are saying that "happy people" convert to Islam and "not happy people" go to other religions or athiesm.

Indeed. If we are talking about the 'obvious' clearly many people have come to a theistic belief, or retained faith in same because they are looking for some reason or ultimate purpose in their lives - and the more unpleasant that life currently is, the more that need is there. Similarly ideas of an afterlife in heaven or paradise provide motivation to just keep moving on in the current life when otherwise you would just give up.

Certainly many theists think along the lines suggested by AntiKarateKid, but it is far from 'blindingly obvious' that they all do. Certainly in a historical context, when life was usually just a struggle to survive, the opposite would seem far more likely.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Here's what I am getting from whatever you have mentioned so far

...You are saying that atheists do not believe in god because there is so much suffering and they say that if there was a god, how could there be so much suffering?....

If that is what you meant, then I am afraid I do not agree with you.

I said some atheists. Do you deny that?

 

[Gubbleknucker]

The existence of suffering and evil is one of the reasons people choose to become atheists because they think that if there was a benevolent God, stuff liek that wouldn't happen. See, again, "the problem of evil" which has been used to attack theists by atheists.

While that is a common argument people make once they are already atheists, it is rarely the reason people cease to believe or never believe at all.

It seems likely to me that atheists know more about being atheists than theists do.
"The problem of evil" has never been a deciding factor in my life.
In fact, my life has been quite sheltered.

The existence of suffering doesn't lead a person to believe. Rather, belief would help them persevere.

More often I see people becoming angry at their chosen deity.

I'm repeating myself now.

Yes, you are, and it it is not necessary. The only thing that this kind of repetition can accomplish is an endless cycle of assumptions clashing against experience.

 

[Clover]

I am pretty happy, and I don't believe in any specific god.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

I am pretty happy, and I don't believe in any specific god.

I'd venture to say you are an agnostic. But we are talking about atheists (absolutely no God whatsoever)

 

[GuestFellow]

Well many Atheists I know look happy to me in a sense that they do whatever they want. Some of them complain about if God existed, why do he allow all the pain and suffering in the world. They did confess that is why they stopped believing in God.

Whether they are upset or not, I haven't got a clue. Though they get very defensive when I happen to question them about existence of God or talk about life after death. I guess they are quite sensitive.

I get the impression they are upset with God. Otherwise they wouldn't get defensive or sensitive about it. To be upset with God, that means you have to believe in him? :/

 

[Clover]

I'd venture to say you are an agnostic. But we are talking about atheists (absolutely no God whatsoever)

I don't believen a god, or a higher power. So I am pretty sure I qualify for Atheist, even though I stay away from most cause too many seek spiritual wars, I prefer to look at peace in religions.

I think it's silly to say they are all un-happy, I mean, the OP doesn't know every person reverted/converted to Atheism, so why make a claim like that? To prove Islam is right? That's silly, if your religion is true, then you shouldn't have to prove it, just let people see it, and find the truth. I don't try to prove Taoism or Shinto, cause I don't care what others think. If they think Kami, are just Satan in disguise, good for them, cause at least I am not a prick about it.

 

[Gubbleknucker]

Guestfellow, I don't see how anything you said applies to me at all.

I'd venture to say you are an agnostic. But we are talking about atheists (absolutely no God whatsoever)

Most atheists consider themselves agnostic to some extent.

I don't know, and I don't believe, so that makes me an agnostic atheist.

Agnosticism is not some middle ground between theism and atheism, in fact, the term agnostic is pretty non-descriptive. All it means is "without knowledge."

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Guestfellow, I don't see how anything you said applies to me at all.



Most atheists consider themselves agnostic to some extent.

I don't know, and I don't believe, so that makes me an agnostic atheist.

Agnosticism is not some middle ground between theism and atheism, in fact, the term agnostic is pretty non-descriptive. All it means is "without knowledge."

I don't think that makes any sense. An atheist cannot be an agnostic at the same time. That would violate the definition of atheism. Though he could be a weak atheist.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

I don't believen a god, or a higher power. So I am pretty sure I qualify for Atheist, even though I stay away from most cause too many seek spiritual wars, I prefer to look at peace in religions.

I think it's silly to say they are all un-happy, I mean, the OP doesn't know every person reverted/converted to Atheism, so why make a claim like that? To prove Islam is right? That's silly, if your religion is true, then you shouldn't have to prove it, just let people see it, and find the truth. I don't try to prove Taoism or Shinto, cause I don't care what others think. If they think Kami, are just Satan in disguise, good for them, cause at least I am not a prick about it.

Ah ok. I assumed since you said "any specific god". Anyways, the claim was a simple thought. I'm not sure how that could be used to prove Islam at all. And anyways, I personally see it as selfish if you believe there to be truth in what you follow yet keep it to yourself instead of propagating it. In essence, "wanting for your brother, what you want for yourself" is not complete f you don't want your brother to know the truth. And obviously your supposed to spread it in a "non-in your face" or "prickish" way. Letting people see it is good but there not be any aversion to proving it to people whoa re willing to listen.

 

[Clover]

Ah ok. I assumed since you said "any specific god". Anyways, the claim was a simple thought. I'm not sure how that could be used to prove Islam at all. And anyways, I personally see it as selfish if you believe there to be truth in what you follow yet keep it to yourself instead of propagating it. In essence, "wanting for your brother, what you want for yourself" is not complete f you don't want your brother to know the truth. And obviously your supposed to spread it in a "non-in your face" or "prickish" way. Letting people see it is good but there not be any aversion to proving it to people whoa re willing to listen.

It can. If you say everyone who becomes a Atheist is sad, then obviously, your saying keep them as theists, and Islam is a pretty big spot in that realm, as you know.

I don't care if you see it as selfish. I don't think your gonna burn in the pits of hell for a lifetime cause you don't believe what I do, so why should I warn you about something I don't believe?

Your not supposed to do anything. You can do what you want, if you choose to do what a prophet says, power to you.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't think that makes any sense. An atheist cannot be an agnostic at the same time. That would violate the definition of atheism. Though he could be a weak atheist.

An atheist isn't necessarily someone who says "I know there's no god", it tends to be someone who says "I believe there's no god".

So Gubbleknucker is right: "Most atheists consider themselves agnostic to some extent."

Peace

 

[AntiKarateKid]

It can. If you say everyone who becomes a Atheist is sad, then obviously, your saying keep them as theists, and Islam is a pretty big spot in that realm, as you know.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. But I'll say this, many of the reasons atheists use to explain how they became an atheist are rooted in disappointment/grief/or anger. I don't have time right now for examples but you can simply read the posts in this thread for starters.

I don't care if you see it as selfish. I don't think your gonna burn in the pits of hell for a lifetime cause you don't believe what I do, so why should I warn you about something I don't believe?

If you follow Tao, I'd assume there to be something good in it. If there is good in it, the world can benefit from it. And if the world can benefit from it, you should share it.

Your not supposed to do anything. You can do what you want, if you choose to do what a prophet says, power to you.

You CAN do anything, but there are things you aren't supposed to do. Anyways, doesn't this statement imply that people don't have any real purpose in life? It would be sad if the world decided it wasn't supposed to be good and could do whatever they wanted. But in reality, all roads are not equal.

 

[Gubbleknucker]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

If you know something exists, you pretty much have to believe in it.

If you don't know something exists, you can choose to believe in it or not to believe in it. That means an agnostic can be either a theist or an atheist.


You seem to be confused with terminology:

The root of the word "agnostic" is knowledge- the prefix "a" means "without."

An agnostic is simply without knowledge--in this case, knowledge regarding the existence of God.


Few atheists claim to know for certain that there is no god, so they are agnostics.

 

[Clover]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. But I'll say this, many of the reasons atheists use to explain how they became an atheist are rooted in disappointment/grief/or anger. I don't have time right now for examples but you can simply read the posts in this thread for starters.



If you follow Tao, I'd assume there to be something good in it. If there is good in it, the world can benefit from it. And if the world can benefit from it, you should share it.



You CAN do anything, but there are things you aren't supposed to do. Anyways, doesn't this statement imply that people don't have any real purpose in life? It would be sad if the world decided it wasn't supposed to be good and could do whatever they wanted. But in reality, all roads are not equal.

Tao isn't anything like a god. Tao is Everything and Nothing. I don't follow it. I know it's there.

My point is this. A man can be good or evil, or both. A man doesn't have to be good cause it's good, or evil cause it's evil. We all have choices. I could become a murderer or a devout pacifist.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Tao isn't anything like a god. Tao is Everything and Nothing. I don't follow it. I know it's there.

I never said it was a god. Whatever it is, you follow a specific lifestyle and have labeled yourself Taoist. You must have chosen it for a reason which has to have benefited you in some way. So if you'd like to see the world become a better place, why should you not share the lessons and benefits that Taoism gave you?

My point is this. A man can be good or evil, or both. A man doesn't have to be good cause it's good, or evil cause it's evil. We all have choices. I could become a murderer or a devout pacifist.

Are you suggesting that a man could be "good" because it's evil? :? I don't understand your third sentence. And I did not deny the element of choice so I am not sure what you are arguing.

 

[Clover]

I never said it was a god. Whatever it is, you follow a specific lifestyle and have labeled yourself Taoist. You must have chosen it for a reason which has to have benefited you in some way. So if you'd like to see the world become a better place, why should you not share the lessons and benefits that Taoism gave you?



Are you suggesting that a man could be "good" because it's evil? :? I don't understand your third sentence. And I did not deny the element of choice so I am not sure what you are arguing.

Cause it would get me banned from here :statisfie

I am telling you, society says good is good, so we should do it. That is stupid. Men will do what they want, we can only try to influence that decision.

 

[GuestFellow]

My point is this. A man can be good or evil, or both. A man doesn't have to be good cause it's good, or evil cause it's evil. We all have choices. I could become a murderer or a devout pacifist.

Ah I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this? :hmm:

Are you talking about the concept of free will?