Has a Happy Person Ever Become Atheist?

[ATHEISTofPEACE]

hahah pascals wager.

 

[memories]

hahah pascals wager.

yes, if god exists then I win, if not well I loose, but I dont have anything to loose, Its as simple as that, the rest is excuse me the expression: Bullshiat!

all these tideous debates about the color of Sauls shorts, the multitude of other religions ''wether or not this person was on bad terms with this other person before jesus died'' its all pointless. there you have it.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The faults in pascal's wager are legion, but I'll just list a few. I've leave the rest to others.

1. Its a false dichotomy

There are nearly infinite possible Gods. So it isn't a this or that, its a this or this or this or this or this or this or this... or that. Picking one of those many Gods in the hope its the right one really doesn't put you much further ahead.

2. Gods tend to hate false gods

Ever notice that in most religious texts there are plenty of scolding parts about how you shouldn't worship false gods? Well seems to me that a given god is more likely to punish you for worshiping a false god than worshiping no god at all.

3. Can you really choose what you believe?

Try as I might I can't believe there is a tiny invisible man on my shoulder. Couldn't do it even if you offered me a million dollars. Could you?

 

[جوري]

If you really believe all that...

He does!

You're an idiot.

He is!

The question remains, why does it take everyone else so long to figure out something that is apparent from one post?

 

[memories]

The faults in pascal's wager are legion, but I'll just list a few. I've leave the rest to others.

1. Its a false dichotomy

There are nearly infinite possible Gods. So it isn't a this or that, its a this or this or this or this or this or this or this... or that. Picking one of those many Gods in the hope its the right one really doesn't put you much further ahead.

2. Gods tend to hate false gods

Ever notice that in most religious texts there are plenty of scolding parts about how you shouldn't worship false gods? Well seems to me that a given god is more likely to punish you for worshiping a false god than worshiping no god at all.

3. Can you really choose what you believe?

Try as I might I can't believe there is a tiny invisible man on my shoulder. Couldn't do it even if you offered me a million dollars. Could you?

Yes, what you have stated here is true, But so far as Im concerned Il stick with the wager, Ah mon cher, what is their to loose?

Il take my chances.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Ah mon cher, what is their to loose?

That depends entirely on the religion and what it demands of you I suppose.

I enjoy a beer now and then (Islam)
I like pork chops (Islam, Judaism)
I don't want my son to have his genitals mutilated at birth (Judaism)
I like that we have a blood bank (Jehova's Witness)
I like to shop on Sundays (Christianity)
I have friends who are homosexual and don't want them berated (All abrahamic religions)
I like to wear this or that (many religions)
If female, I like to do this or that (Islam)
I could go on...



Of course if there's nothing you'd like to do that your religion doesn't forbid, then I can't say you lose much.

 

[memories]

That depends entirely on the religion and what it demands of you I suppose.

I enjoy a beer now and then (Islam)
I like pork chops (Islam, Judaism)
I don't want my son to have his genitals mutilated at birth (Judaism)
I like that we have a blood bank (Jehova's Witness)
I like to shop on Sundays (Christianity)
I have friends who are homosexual and don't want them berated (All abrahamic religions)
I like to wear this or that (many religions)
If female, I like to do this or that (Islam)
I could go on...



Of course if there's nothing you'd like to do that your religion doesn't forbid, then I can't say you lose much.

I had an argument with an indoctrinated woman earlier, she was stating that muslim women have lots of rights and can do whatever they want...

Regardless, what you say here is true.

 

[ATHEISTofPEACE]

yes, if god exists then I win, if not well I loose, but I dont have anything to loose, Its as simple as that, the rest is excuse me the expression: Bullshiat!

all these tideous debates about the color of Sauls shorts, the multitude of other religions ''wether or not this person was on bad terms with this other person before jesus died'' its all pointless. there you have it.

How do you know which of the millions of man made gods to worship? How do you know which way to worship that god. If you choose wrong your screwed. Screwed more then an atheist. At least I did not worship another god....

 

[Muezzin]

I repeat my point: Happy people don't need Gods.

You and I both know that is not a serious point, but a cute attempt at inverting a faulty premise. The result is just as faulty. Because with it, you cannot make sense of people like me.

Me, I don’t make it a priority to pray to God when I’m sad, when a tragedy has occurred. I make it a priority to act. Only when all actions have been exhausted, or are rendered impossible, do I pray for divine help in a tragedy.

It’s when I’m extremely happy that I personally make it a priority to give thanks to God.

I don’t fit it into any of your boxes.

Sure, many people have God and are happy,

Then why, when I feel ecstatic (like, say, passing an exam in an especially butt-whupping subject) do I feel the need to show my gratitude to God?

Please stop trying to tell others why they believe what they believe.

but you'd be hard pressed to find many happy atheists who turn into theists.

Read the literature about conversion and you'll find this to be true. Most converts are "missing something" in their lives which they find in religion. Its most often an emotional need that gets filled by the sense of purpose, security, community, etc that religion can provide. Happy atheists, who don't feel such an emotional void and have plenty of purpose, security, community etc, don't tend to convert.

Then aren’t you just proving the (faulty) premise’s point? That atheists who are unhappy become theists to pursue happiness?

I think the premise of this thread is faulty. I think belief in God is a personal matter not really dependent on ‘happiness’ or ‘sadness’ (however anyone plans to quantify those emotions).

Apostates in contrast tend to deconvert not due to any emotional gap or need but due to erosion or cold hard logic. In fact deconversion is often a painful process whereas conversion is a joyous one. Some apostates may even wind up less happy after the process, feeling the loss of the above.

Then apostates who ‘deconvert’ to atheism are unhappy, right? Which is again proving the faulty premise of this thread.

Being happy doesn't stop that apostacy. If anything it makes it easier.

This is where the premise shows its fallacy. Happiness or sadness are not truly the driving forces behind such decisions. It’s not that simple. As you well understand, but for some reason choose to oversimplify with slogans just as faulty as the ones you lampoon.

The question posed was do happy people ever become atheists. The answer is yes, more often than most here would think.

Like I said, I think the premise of this thread is faulty.

The only reason I responded to you is because there was a death in the family a few months ago, and your words ticked me off with how wrong and downright idiotic they were.

Also note that "being mad at god" doesn't make one an atheist. An atheist doesn't believe there is a god to be mad at.

It’s a silly theist who would be ‘mad at God’. What would be the point? It’s like a waterfall complaining about gravity. God doesn’t want us to whine at Him. The ethos of many religions is to act constructively in the circumstances. Not to deny pain,or mourning or loss. But just to get on with it.

 

[Hamayun]

Hamayun, the burden of proff is on you, not the atheist.

The burden of proof would lie with me if I was on an Atheist forum trying to convince them what they believe is wrong...

I think you will find it is quite the opposite... :uuh:

You are an Atheist on an Islamic forum... therefore for any claims you make my dear, the burden of proof lies with you :muddlehea

Frankly I couldn't care less what you believe. If I really gave two hoots about convincing any Atheists I would be on an Atheist forum.

All I say is if you come here making any claims at least have the backbone to support your claims...

 

[Pygoscelis]

You and I both know that is not a serious point, but a cute attempt at inverting a faulty premise.

It is a completely serious point. Hence the rest of the post. What premise?

you cannot make sense of people like me.

I have made no attempt to do so. That didn't seem to be the question posed by the thread. The question was "Has a happy person ever become atheist". Than answer is yes. Why do you think the question is "Explain Meuzzin"?

Then aren’t you just proving the (faulty) premise’s point? That atheists who are unhappy become theists to pursue happiness?

I still don't know what premise you are refering to.

Then apostates who ‘deconvert’ to atheism are unhappy, right? Which is again proving the faulty premise of this thread.

Some are yes. Specifically those who need the added senses of purpose, comfort etc I described.

This is where the premise shows its fallacy. Happiness or sadness are not truly the driving forces behind such decisions.

I beg to differ. Sadness (or more specifically feeling something is missing) has a lot to do with those who fall prey to religious preachers. Go read on it. I suggest "Amazing Conversions" by Bruce Hunsberger. It is an excellent study.

The only reason I responded to you is because there was a death in the family a few months ago, and your words ticked me off with how wrong and downright idiotic they were.

Note I'm not the one starting with the adhoms here. I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm not going to appologize for my input to the thread, which was directly on topic to the question asked. If you can't handle my opinion, that isn't my problem. And as for calling people's opinions idiotic... you should note I've always refrained from doing that while amongst all you folks who believe in what to me are fairy tales.

 

[Pygoscelis]

All I say is if you come here making any claims at least have the backbone to support your claims...

I agree with your sentiment here, but I missed his claim. What was his claim?

 

[ATHEISTofPEACE]

The burden of proof would lie with me if I was on an Atheist forum trying to convince them what they believe is wrong...

I think you will find it is quite the opposite... :uuh:

You are an Atheist on an Islamic forum... therefore for any claims you make my dear, the burden of proof lies with you :muddlehea

Frankly I couldn't care less what you believe. If I really gave two hoots about convincing any Atheists I would be on an Atheist forum.

All I say is if you come here making any claims at least have the backbone to support your claims...

Make a list of why you beilive in God. Make a list of your evidence and I'll see how much of it I can rip apart.

 

[Hamayun]

I agree with your sentiment here, but I missed his claim. What was his claim?

Do I have to spell it out? Come on... you're not that naive surely... or are you? For a clue please red his post above.

Make a list of why you beilive in God. Make a list of your evidence and I'll see how much of it I can rip apart.

Did you not read my last post or have you got an impairment of some sort??? :muddlehea

To make it easier for you let me say it again...

I do not need to explain/justify/list anything for you. Rather you need to list your evidence for the Non-Existance of God. If I was on an Atheist forum trying to "enlighten" them I would do the same.

As far as your "ripping apart" is concerned... try google. You will be shocked to see whatever you are trying to "rip apart" has already been done to death and is fairly inconclusive.

Surely you are not under the illusion that you are going to enlighten us in some way? Are you? :uuh:
You really think billions of people will drop their faith thanks to your pearls of wisdom?

The sooner you snap out of that delusion the better.

Cheers

 

[ATHEISTofPEACE]

Do I have to spell it out? Come on... you're not that naive surely... or are you? For a clue please red his post above.



Did you not read my last post or have you got an impairment of some sort??? :muddlehea

To make it easier for you let me say it again...

I do not need to explain/justify/list anything for you. Rather you need to list your evidence for the Non-Existance of God. If I was on an Atheist forum trying to "enlighten" them I would do the same.

As far as your "ripping apart" is concerned... try google. You will be shocked to see whatever you are trying to "rip apart" has already been done to death and is fairly inconclusive.

Surely you are not under the illusion that you are going to enlighten us in some way? Are you? :uuh:
You really think billions of people will drop their faith thanks to your pearls of wisdom?

The sooner you snap out of that delusion the better.

Cheers

I can do that, but its hard to impossible if i do not know why you beilive.

 

[ATHEISTofPEACE]

Do I have to spell it out? Come on... you're not that naive surely... or are you? For a clue please red his post above.



Did you not read my last post or have you got an impairment of some sort??? :muddlehea

To make it easier for you let me say it again...

I do not need to explain/justify/list anything for you. Rather you need to list your evidence for the Non-Existance of God. If I was on an Atheist forum trying to "enlighten" them I would do the same.

As far as your "ripping apart" is concerned... try google. You will be shocked to see whatever you are trying to "rip apart" has already been done to death and is fairly inconclusive.

Surely you are not under the illusion that you are going to enlighten us in some way? Are you? :uuh:
You really think billions of people will drop their faith thanks to your pearls of wisdom?

The sooner you snap out of that delusion the better.

Cheers

 

[Muezzin]

It is a completely serious point.

Doesn't look like it...

Hence the rest of the post. What premise?

The premise that only unhappy people become athiests. Which you then inverted.

I have made no attempt to do so. That didn't seem to be the question posed by the thread. The question was "Has a happy person ever become atheist". Than answer is yes. Why do you think the question is "Explain Meuzzin"?

No, your premise is 'Happy people don't need God'. It falls apart when you have people like me who only feel they need God when they're extremely happy. The rest of the time they're just... average people. Not particularly happy or sad.

Some are yes. Specifically those who need the added senses of purpose, comfort etc I described.

I beg to differ. Sadness (or more specifically feeling something is missing) has a lot to do with those who fall prey to religious preachers. Go read on it. I suggest "Amazing Conversions" by Bruce Hunsberger. It is an excellent study.

Well, here, are you not proving this thread's implication that athiests are unhappy without God?

Note I'm not the one starting with the adhoms here. I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm not going to appologize for my input to the thread, which was directly on topic to the question asked.

I'm not asking for an apology. I'm asking you to look at what you said and consider if the sweeping statement I'm going to quote in bold further in this post is what you actually meant.

If you can't handle my opinion, that isn't my problem. And as for calling people's opinions idiotic... you should note I've always refrained from doing that while amongst all you folks who believe in what to me are fairy tales.

You don't think this 'Its the people who go through hard times, death of a family member, tragic event, etc that tend to need to reach out for the comforts of religion. Can't accept your father died? Tell yourself "he's in a better place now". Afraid of death or having a tough life? Tell yourself the next life will be so much nicer. Afraid of the world around you? Tell yourself God is in control and is looking out for you.' is an idiotic generalisation of people's motivations? Really?

Just calling 'em as I see 'em.

By the way:

I don't want my son to have his genitals mutilated at birth (Judaism)

Circumcision is not genital mutilation. I don't know if you were ignorant of the fact or just lying, but there's clarification anyway.

 

[Converse02]

You are an Atheist on an Islamic forum... therefore for any claims you make my dear, the burden of proof lies with you :muddlehea

This is incorrect. The burden of proof always lies on the person making the claim something exists (the theist), as it is nearly impossible for a person to "prove" the non-existance of something.

You can't disprove invisible elves with magical powers who are determined in to hide themselves, just like you can't deprove God. However, the inability to disprove God or magical invisible elves doesn't led any more credence to their existance.

 

[Converse02]

How come I have never heard an atheist say, I was outside on a beautiful summers day gazing at the greenery when I said to myself, "There is no God."

Because an atheist would simply enjoy the summer day and greenery. They wouldn't see a need to say "There is no God," because they don't believe God exists.

Seems like more often than not, atheism sprouts from negativity, while theism from positivity.

When something terrible happens to a person, we sometimes jest that people will "get religion." It's proof that theism often sprouts from negativity. People don't say they'll "get atheism."

 

[Hamayun]

it is nearly impossible for a person to "prove" the non-existance of something.

Erm... what kind of a rule is that?

I can prove my biscuit box does not contain any biscuits...

I can prove there are no feet in my shoes sitting on the shelf...

I can prove a ginger person does not exist in my family....

Have you got anything concrete to support your claim?