Haters. Go away.

[marwen]

I didn't want to post in this thread because I want to end this tension between the forum members. But I want just to add some words to Br. Woodrow's comment that I think it sums up the situation.

1) First, a message for muslim brothers and sisters : we need as muslims to be kind with all people. We especially need to avoid rude replies to the comments that we feel offending and just to reply calmly and show the truth in the most polite form. We really need to represent the right picture of our Prophet S.A.W and how he kindly deal with people offending him.

2) Second, a message for non-muslim brothers and sisters : I just want to let you know that muslims are your brothers in humanity. There is no difference between muslims and non muslims except the belief that is a personal opinion. Every human has the right to choose his belief he think is right. That's how muslims also think, and muslims are not trying to invade your belief or to force you to be muslim, but people who are interested in learning about Islam can get the knowledge they want here. You are welcome to present your ideas and your arguments free from insults or inapropriate comments, and we are happy to hear your point of view, but let's keep it at the level of discussion, and personal judgements are to be avoided.

3) For muslims and non-muslims (all the members) : as Br. Woodrow clarified above, if you feel that a post is being offensive for you, or for your beliefs, you can just report it to admins. And we have to avoid mutual hate and insults.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

wa alaykum us-Salaam

I believe you may have touched on something that is the basis of many bad feelings. It is true many non-Muslims do say and do things we find to be extremely objectionable, argumentative, insulting and out right offensive. Yet, I doubt if the majority are aware of it and see us as just being overly emotional. Perhaps one of the best mutual services we can do is to point out specifically why something offends us and elicits anger. A little education and explanations can reduce many misunderstandings.

I find that very few people are actually bad and intend to offend, but a very large number of people are ignorant of what is offensive to people outside their own belief system. Education, explanations and by example just may go a long ways.

We do have people that come here with the intent of bashing us. They never last past the moment any mod or admin becomes aware of them. One good tool all members have is access to the report button. We actually do pay attention to reports. We do take action. The action may not be visible to everybody, but if an offense has been committed, the mods and the offender are aware of the action and what needs to be done. Use the report button, there is no advantage in any member taking matters in their own hands.

akhee when you know certain things are controversial and that know Muslims get insulted by it, but yet insist on bringing up the same old topic
when the thread gets so overally repetitive that the trouble makers just wont give up or change their veiws and ignore the information given to clarify the matter
when non-muslims insert into their posts cunning remarks aimed to insult Islam and Muslims then go off crying and try to pin the blame on others when stood up to

do all these sound like someone who is interested in learning. i have thought about what you mentioned but then i think this is no-qay the indication that someone is trying to ask and seek knowledge. ive seen non-muslims here who are interested in Islam, and they know how to ask and dont do so with an attitute.
when you go ask you neighbor for something, you knock on their door and ask politely not barge in and take whatever you need from their house without permission then get all angry when you haven't taken the steps to bother asking nicely.

i have taken into consideration that yes, they perhaps dont know any better, but then reread and consider what ive seen of their posts and it doesn't do it for me.

 

[M..x]

Wow. I had not intended for this thread to get into a debate.
I accept that Muslim members on this forum SHOULD be respectful to other views, whether that be another Muslim or a Non-Muslim. However, having said that, it is equally a duty upon Non-Muslims NOT to come out with snide hurtful remarks and reply with the same level of respect.
As I said that, using supposed 'examples' and 'theories' on Islam are not going to benefit anyone, especially a forum which aims to promote Islamic views and they are instead going to create tension and rifts between members.
It is true to say then that if you have nothing of any value to post, just don't do it?
I didn't intend to attack any specific individual but this was actually a post from another thread that just escalated into an argument. I thought my comment was general and advice to all Non-Muslims who do come on the forum to do just as I have described. I think its a waste of time for them to be posting such remarks knowing that they are based on fallacies and misinterpretations of Islamic views, and a waste of time of Muslim Members who are inevitably going to get defensive and try to refute them. But if such comments weren't made in the first place, arguments like that wouldn't occur either.
Just thought I'd clarify myself.
Peace.

 

[Woodrow]

wa alaykum us-Salaam


akhee when you know certain things are controversial and that know Muslims get insulted by it, but yet insist on bringing up the same old topic
when the thread gets so overally repetitive that the trouble makers just wont give up or change their veiws and ignore the information given to clarify the matter
when non-muslims insert into their posts cunning remarks aimed to insult Islam and Muslims then go off crying and try to pin the blame on others when stood up to

do all these sound like someone who is interested in learning. i have thought about what you mentioned but then i think this is no-qay the indication that someone is trying to ask and seek knowledge. ive seen non-muslims here who are interested in Islam, and they know how to ask and dont do so with an attitute.
when you go ask you neighbor for something, you knock on their door and ask politely not barge in and take whatever you need from their house without permission then get all angry when you haven't taken the steps to bother asking nicely.

i have taken into consideration that yes, they perhaps dont know any better, but then reread and consider what ive seen of their posts and it doesn't do it for me.

Very good post and some important considerations.

All religious discussions among different faiths are extremely controversial. I really doubt if it is possible for any person to discuss what they believe without out having others see it as promotion of that belief.

We all need to keep in mind that when a member of any faith states what their beliefs or non-beliefs are. Those statements will offend some people of other faiths.

when we read the beliefs of a person who follows different beliefs we need to always be aware and mindful of several things:

1. We are going to be offended.

2. the person is expressing what they believe, not the intent to offend anybody.

3. The person is going to find our reply offensive.

4. Personal attacks of any person is not going to make the conversation less offensive.

The goal is mutual agreement to avoid out right deliberate attacks of others. To do this we all need to learn to address statements and not people. To base replies upon verifiable facts and not upon feelings, and to accept that no matter what we say or present will most likely not be ligical or believable to the other person.

It is a very difficult job to live in peace with others, yet the results are worth the effort, if we do learn to disagree without malice.

 

[Skavau]

Wow. I had not intended for this thread to get into a debate.
I accept that Muslim members on this forum SHOULD be respectful to other views, whether that be another Muslim or a Non-Muslim. However, having said that, it is equally a duty upon Non-Muslims NOT to come out with snide hurtful remarks and reply with the same level of respect.
As I said that, using supposed 'examples' and 'theories' on Islam are not going to benefit anyone, especially a forum which aims to promote Islamic views and they are instead going to create tension and rifts between members.

I'd like to say first that Woodrow has handled this situation with grace and is trying very well to bridge the gaps. These gaps with me however are artificial and I try to talk with everyone in the same manner.

I would like also say and repeat again that I never come out with any deliberate snide or hurtful remarks to anyone much less Islam. Indeed I know what prompted this thread and I won't repeat the issue there, but I am sure you aware now yourself that it was a misunderstanding of what I was trying to say in the context of a civil debate between me and marwen. It is unfortunate but when you debates on things such as free-speech, theistic morality and express a specific or perhaps controversial opinion on current events that people are going to be offended, and sometimes respond negatively.

I can't help that. And in the topic in question that prompted this thread, I would have imagined that any response by me or anyone else supporting the argument I was making would have prompted some sort of outrage from some of the more sensitive members on the forum. Perhaps the creation of a new sub-forum with a focus on issues like these would be in order. It does not fit into Comparative Religion, and they aren't Clarifications on Islam.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

I don't like the term 'sympathetic'; for me its just mutual respect. The attitude that you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe, but that doesn't mean you're a lesser human, or less intelligent. Either you are respectful of others or you're not. To be fair though most people around that age are pompous; I'm sure life will humble them later on.

Well we can hope, but in all honesty it wont happen. I think with other religionists and perhaps agnositics progress can be made, despite our differences we are still aiming for the same goal no matter how much we'd disagree. With atheists (particularly the dawkinite type) its quite pointless.

Barney

I'm antitheist, sure. I'd rather people embrace reality and see theism as the biggest and greatest obstacle to peace between all peoples. This is no more of a pipedream than The world submitting to Bhuddism or Islam or Christianity.

Usual atheist drivel, not much different from the rhetoric Marxists would spout in the old Soviet Union for example

Religion is a fanatic and perverse reflection of the world

'religion has become the medium for spiritual enslavement of the masses'

"If atheism solved all human woe, then the Soviet Union would have been an empire of joy and dancing bunnies, instead of the land of corpses."
— John C. Wright

In fact it would be immense hypocrisy on their part to acnknowledge your position something akin to us accepting that Allah has partners and the like, so dont hold your breath. . . . .

If your interested in the history theres a book by Alister McGrath called the Twilight of Atheism, worth checking out.

To be fair though there are some athiests and secular people who are not impressed by the 'new atheism. For example Micheal Ruse (no believer in God) said 'The God Delusion makes me embarassed to be an atheist' and after Dawkins television series 'The root of all evil?' (Religion = evil etc etc) one of Alister McGraths atheist colleagues said 'Dont judge the rest of us by this pseudo-intellectual drivel.'

Plus you have people like Norman finkelstein (atheist) who campaigns for the Palestinain cause so we have to be careful about unfair labelling, all we have to do is sort out the wheat from the chaff.

I also agree with the whole young people and their egos, (anyone remember Kev the teenager? ;D) hopefully they will chill out as they get older.

and the whole sympathetic thing hmmmmm.. I can think of at least one person on that list who is anything but the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing!

Yeah always something to watch for.

 

[glo]

Ukhti,

Just my own opinion. I also despise the gadflies and trolls. I have no delusion that anything I say or do will change there opinion of Islam nor open their eye's to the Love of Allaah(swt). I actually have a very fast temper, I do anger easily, but my trial on earth has become one of self control and know that I have no control over how others act or behave, but I do have control over how I treat others and my burden in my later years is now one of patience and self control I can not guide as much as one person to Islam and I can not prove any non believer is wrong, but I can through my actions and words show that as a Muslim I act out of peace and seek fairness for all people, which is a very big change from my pre-reverting life. Islam led me to Peace and part of this Peace removed the hate and impatience I had in the past

That's a wonderful example of what happens when we allow God to work in us and through us!
Thank you for sharing, Woodrow.

 

[IslamicRevival]

A general comment to all you haters.
If Islam offends you so much, why are you on an Islamic forum? Clearly you have nothing to say which would benefit Muslims and have no intention of seeking knowledge on Islam so what are you doing here?
I find your comments offensive, disgusting and rude.
I don't get it? You have nothing valuable to contribute to a site which aims to promote ISLAMIC beliefs but you have the nerve to come here throwing all sorts of ridiculous comments.
Do you not have anything better to do? Or why not kill your time on another forum which won't be so offensive to your delicate little heart (!)
I have had enough of Islam haters like you, and if spreading hate towards Islam is what floats your boat, please go to a forum that does that.
Islam is a peaceful faith, so go take the hate somewhere else. Please.

With an attitude such as this, we'll drive many people who are researching Islam and thinking of reverting away. Yes, many may dislike Islam but its our golden chance to show them what Islam is really about. Let them hate, maybe they will eventually open their heart and accept Islam?

Allah Azzawajal Knows Best