Have you seen these pictures ?

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As'salamu Alaikum,

Alhamdulillah, It’s a great privilege to see these pictures. These pictures would have been taken during the excavation of the historical sites. Fortunately or unfortunately, none of these sites remain to be seen today therefore some have doubt about these pictures.

Many countries and in different cultures, this kind of sites are protected by the state and Archeologist preserve them. If that happens in Makkah and Madina most of the Hajis (pilgrims) would spend more time in such places than in the Haram Sherif (Ka'bah) doing amal. More will touch these soils, kiss the symbols for barakah and even worship these places. These practices are evident today in Makkah where the people hang on the doors of the Ka'bah or the covering clothes of Ka'bah for barakah and in the Prophet’s Mosque in Madina where some pray towards the Jannathul Bakki and some pray towards the grave of Prophet (SWS), touching and wiping hands on the walls and iron grills while visiting the grave. In Madina there are plenty of small mosques in the names of each famous companion of Prophet (SWS) and the guides take you around where there are guys who recite and pray in the name of those companions. You have to pay those guys. This is totally against Islam.

If you go to Makkah, Insha Allah you will see a library closer to the Haram which was the birth place of our Prophet (SWS). Some say that one of the toilets site in the Haram was the area where Abu Jahl and his friends were living. Similarly if you have a chance to go to the lower level of the Haram (most of the time this part is locked except a couple of days closer to the Hajj, that also to accommodate the crowd) you will see some of the old platforms that are camouflaged, these are historically important although not many will explaine to you.


Ws'salam
 
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Wow!! I am speechless..how is big difference between now and before of Prophet's time! Subhan'Allah!
 
Prophet Muhammad would be disappointed because look how we have got fancy houses, television, comfy beds, etc!
 
Subhannallah, wat a priceless photo. Have to show it to the younger generation.My kids will be shock to see this.How easy our life is.We take it for granted and still ask for more.Astargfirullah.Jazakallah
 
Salam
Yes it is the house of the prophet (saw). I dont even know if that is still standing. i do know that the house is now surrounded by the back of the masjidun-nabawi in madinah.
Wassalam
 
The house of Prophet (SWS) in Makkah is no more there. all covered by the extension of the new buildings for the reasons I have given above
 
Re: Have you seen these pictures

These pictures are absolutely astonishing and it is all to Allah Ta'ala for preserving these sacred places for the present generation and Inshallah Ta'ala for the future generations as well.

There was a story in the British Independent the other day claiming that the Saudi government is afraid that Muslim pilgrims are committing shirk by over zealous devotion to these sites and so they are destroying them. I think that Khadija's house was specifically mentioned and that they want to destroy the caves on the mountain where Muhammed heard Gabriel reciting the Quran.

If anyone is interested and subscribes to the Indie, the link is

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article358577.ece

So future generations are out of luck and probably all that is left are these pictures.
 
Re: Have you seen these pictures

There was a story in the British Independent the other day claiming that the Saudi government is afraid that Muslim pilgrims are committing shirk by over zealous devotion to these sites and so they are destroying them. I think that Khadija's house was specifically mentioned and that they want to destroy the caves on the mountain where Muhammed heard Gabriel reciting the Quran.

If anyone is interested and subscribes to the Indie, the link is

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article358577.ece

So future generations are out of luck and probably all that is left are these pictures.
Yeah, I was wondering when someone would mention this.

If true, I think it's a damn shame the Saudi Govt. want to destroy these historically significant sites.
 
The house of Prophet (SWS) in Makkah is no more there. all covered by the extension of the new buildings for the reasons I have given above

Hmm, I also found this on what I take to be an Islamic site but which I won't quote in case it is not. I have also deleted a bit that may have made a mention of the W-word. I like the bravery of anyone who can lay down the life of his son.

Saudi Fights to End Demolition Driven By Islamic Dictate
---
Architect Sees a Terror Link In Razing of Monuments; Princes Don't Muzzle Him
---
A Mall Goes Up in Mecca
By Hugh Pope
The Wall Street Journal

Wednesday, August 18, 2004


JIDDA, Saudi Arabia -- In a private lecture he gives to small groups in his home here, Sami Angawi sometimes ends with projections of three images in succession. The first shows the 2002 dynamiting of a minaret by a shrine in the holy city of Medina. The second depicts a colossal ancient Buddha in Bamyan, Afghanistan, being blown to bits in 2001 by the former Taliban regime. The third is the World Trade Center engulfed in flames. Mr. Angawi, a 51-year-old architect, is waging an unusual campaign against a feature of Saudi Arabia's fundamentalist Islam that rarely comes up for public discussion inside the country: the alteration or destruction of holy sites. The desert kingdom's dominant clerics believe any reverence for buildings or saints distracts from their doctrine of worship of God alone and constitutes polytheism, regarded by them as the gravest sin in Islam.

In a provocative critique, Mr. Angawi directly links the religious zeal that destroys shrines to the intolerance that breeds Islamic terrorism. "Should we have destroyed all our heritage of diversity?" he asks. "Shouldn't we be learning to think before blowing everything up? It's due to a monopoly of religious opinion, and that has to end."

As Mr. Angawi's unusual polemic gains a wider audience within Saudi Arabia, he offers a hint of a significant shift by the country's embattled leaders. Since the attacks of Sept. 11, in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, the royal family has faced mounting criticism based on links between its favored form of Islam, the fundamentalist strain called Wahhabism, and global terror. In its modest way, Mr. Angawi's architecture lecture suggests Saudi Arabia is increasingly tolerant of public criticism.

In one sign that some government leaders want his views heard, he recently participated in a series of national discussions about reforming Saudi society. The unprecedented exchanges, sponsored by Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz, effectively the country's leader, were a tentative step toward encouraging economic and political change.

Mr. Angawi started giving slide shows about preserving architecture in the 1970s, but since Sept. 11, 2001, he has been more outspoken. He estimates several thousand people have heard his lecture about the damage to Saudi Arabia's architectural history. People gather at his or other private homes, drawn mostly by word of mouth. Audiences have included Saudi academics and oil-company executives.

That Mr. Angawi can do this without harassment suggests he has the tacit support of at least some members of the large royal clan. He hasn't stopped any bulldozers, but he is one of a small band of activists beginning to challenge from within the Islamic fundamentalism that is Saudi Arabia's official ideology. "The government has unlocked the door to change. Some are pushing to get in. Others are pushing to keep the door closed," Mr. Angawi says.

Saudi journalists are growing braver in challenging the religious establishment, although the editor of a Meccan newspaper lost his job after putting an encounter between liberal and religious dissidents on his front page in May. A group from Medina is forming an association to protect the remaining shrines and monuments there. In June, the Cabinet decreed that women could own businesses in their own name. Ground-breaking municipal elections are set for November, beginning to challenge princes' and clerics' monopoly on power.

Over the years, the Saudi government has let fundamentalist clergy and developers destroy the famed old mosque of Abu Bakr and tombs of close relatives of Muhammad in Medina. It has turned the sites of Muhammad's great battles of Uhud and Badr into a parking lot and an area of empty tarmac. In 1990, a site where some believe Muhammad lived with his first wife, Khadija, was paved over when developers extended prayer areas around Mecca's Great Mosque.

The government has also pulled down a stone house with a colonnaded courtyard in Medina known as the Egyptian Monastery, once favored by pilgrims from that country. Saudi lawyers say Wahhabi religious authorities have issued many edicts over the centuries endorsing the destruction of historical places to discourage polytheism. "It is not permitted to glorify buildings," said one such ruling in 1994.

Mr. Angawi does glorify buildings -- openly. "Mecca used to be the link that brings Muslims together, the heart of the Islamic world," he says. "Something has gone wrong with the heart, and we need to restore the balance."

>deletions<

Some 26 years ago, Saudi Arabia ratified a United Nations convention committing itself to safeguarding properties of outstanding cultural value. But so far, the Saudis haven't nominated anything in the kingdom to join the 611 cultural-heritage sites in the world that are registered with the U.N.

There is no indication of broad popular support for Mr. Angawi's cause. In 2002, Saudi authorities removed the 18th-century Ottoman fortress of al-Ajyad in Mecca to make way for a five-tower project rising 31 stories. The development includes a hotel, shopping mall and apartments. They overlook the Kaaba, the cube-shaped stone building swathed in black silk that is the focal point of all Muslims' daily prayers and the annual Hajj pilgrimage. (One of the lead contractors for the $1.6 billion project is the Saudi Binladen Group, owned by Osama bin Laden's relatives.)

Many Saudis see nothing wrong with the way the great mosques of Mecca and Medina are now surrounded by high-rise developments touted as investment opportunities. "If I can afford it, why shouldn't I have a hotel suite overlooking the holy shrine," says Khaled al-Kordi, a Riyadh financial consultant and member of the country's Supreme Economic Council.

Mr. Angawi cuts an unorthodox figure in Saudi Arabia. He says foes denounce him as a "crazy S***" because he follows that dissident mystical approach to Islam. He dresses in a light-spun woolen cloak and a turban and carries an elegant walking stick -- all of which violate the Saudi dress code of white robe and head-cloth. He lives in a palatial residence of his own design in Jidda. Mr. Angawi studied architecture at the University of Texas and received a doctorate from London's School of Oriental and African Studies, doing his thesis on the historical diversity of Meccan architecture.

Hussein Shobokshi, scion of a Jidda merchant family and one who has seen Mr. Angawi's presentation, says the architect is "seen as eccentric, but he's got respect" among the nation's small group of moderate and liberal intellectuals.

Mr. Angawi's family traces its roots to Muhammad, but it is a more commercial distinction that allows him to devote his energy to research. His family is one of 3,200 that have inherited the lucrative position of "mutawwaf," or those licensed to organize the groups of pilgrims who come by the millions each year.

In 1975, Mr. Angawi set up the Pilgrimage Research Center to study ways to modernize Mecca with as little harm as possible to its historic and holy sites. One of his techniques was to use time-lapse photography to analyze pilgrims' movement, plan mass-transport systems and keep private vehicles away from the city core. He says his center received state funding, and some members of the royal family expressed interest in his ideas. The royal family numbers about 5,000 princes, whose opinions vary but who are generally more educated and modern than the religious conservatism that dominates Saudi society. In 1988, Mr. Angawi was invited to give a presentation to senior princes at court.

But he also made enemies among religious authorities and some contractors who do modernization work. He lost control of the Pilgrimage Research Center and resigned his position in 1988.

His commitment didn't wane. "Every time a building goes, it's like watching a relative being slaughtered in front of me," Mr. Angawi says.

In 1990, sympathizers tipped him off that the site thought to contain the foundations of the Meccan house of Muhammad and Khadija was to be paved over. He rushed to the site, even threatening to put his young son in the bulldozer's path. He used his contacts to win permission for a last-minute archaeological dig. It lasted 40 days, and he says his team of volunteers uncovered stone foundations that appeared to be those of the Prophet's abode. But in the end, the site was buried in concrete and covered in unmarked marble. A public toilet now stands nearby, according to Meccans.

"We've done more damage to Mecca and Medina in the past 50 years than in the past 1,500. Of 300 holy sites, perhaps only 10 remain," Mr. Angawi said recently in his book-lined study, the air heavy with incense.

He isn't alone in his concern. In July, the Islamic Supreme Council of America, a Sufi group, called on the U.N. "to stop the wanton destruction of venerated Muslim relics in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia." The council, led by Sheik Hisham Kabbani, who is based in Michigan, said, "The Wahhabist rulers of that nation are undertaking a new ideological jihad to destroy major relics and monuments."

Saudi government spokesmen dismiss Mr. Angawi's objections as nostalgia for the old Mecca. "He doesn't like change because it changes the city that he knew," says Mr. Jubeir, the government spokesman. "We want to expand the pilgrimage, and we want to make it safe, comfortable and spiritually rewarding. If we have to remove homes, unfortunately something has to give."

Mr. Angawi says the assault on America in 2001 shocked him into action. He wanted to galvanize Saudi Arabia's small, diffuse band of liberal intellectuals. "We've had many wake-up calls," he says, "but we've been like children covering our eyes."

He uses a slick computer presentation for his lectures, which he says he sometimes delivers to top government officials who quietly invite him to their homes. He also organizes a weekly discussion group for young Saudis on subjects such as the mercy of God, individual freedom and national heritage.

Crown Prince Abdullah invited Mr. Angawi to be one of 60 delegates to a December session in Mecca of the National Dialogue. It included historic discussions about the role of women in Saudi Arabia, with women participating, and the role of minority groups such as Shiite Muslims.

While Mr. Angawi didn't show his slide presentation in the public forum -- the message is still too controversial for that -- he did invite participants to see it in private. Twenty came, he says.

Participants in the dialogue recommended that the kingdom tolerate minority sects, strengthen the role of women and separate the government's executive, judicial and administrative branches. No method for implementing any of this emerged, though. And there was no mention of the architecture of Mecca or Medina.​
 
may allah protect us all, and may allah safeguard our deen

I think this topic is a. none of my business and b. too sad for words, but I am curious. May I ask if you think that if the Cave where Muhammed heard the Archangel Gabriel were being venerated in a way that approached shirk, it should be destroyed?

It is upsetting to me, so no doubt it is worse for you and I won't mind if you do not want to answer.
 
I think this topic is a. none of my business and b. too sad for words, but I am curious. May I ask if you think that if the Cave where Muhammed heard the Archangel Gabriel were being venerated in a way that approached shirk, it should be destroyed?

It is upsetting to me, so no doubt it is worse for you and I won't mind if you do not want to answer.

the people commiting the shirk should be guided. The place has no fault.
 

Many countries and in different cultures, this kind of sites are protected by the state and Archeologist preserve them. If that happens in Makkah and Madina most of the Hajis (pilgrims) would spend more time in such places than in the Haram Sherif (Ka'bah) doing amal. More will touch these soils, kiss the symbols for barakah and even worship these places. These practices are evident today in Makkah where the people hang on the doors of the Ka'bah or the covering clothes of Ka'bah for barakah and in the Prophet’s Mosque in Madina where some pray towards the Jannathul Bakki and some pray towards the grave of Prophet (SWS), touching and wiping hands on the walls and iron grills while visiting the grave. In Madina there are plenty of small mosques in the names of each famous companion of Prophet (SWS) and the guides take you around where there are guys who recite and pray in the name of those companions. You have to pay those guys. This is totally against Islam.

Until the day of Kiyyama there will be people who will commit Shirk. Whoever facilitates such acts too are responsible and answerable.
 

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