Hell and Heaven in Christianity

[barney]

Glo:
You ask where people get their different Moral Values from?
Well from society. As a whole it reflects what people want.
The free spirit of the 60's, the greed of the 80's the Jingoism of the Victorians the "nuff resect" of the ninetys.

People within society will look for scripture to back their morals, and they will always find it.

Lets say that making jokes is a sin. Anyone who does this should be put to death.
All I have to do is wheel out the life of Elisha and i'm up and running.

 

[glo]

Glo:
You ask where people get their different Moral Values from?
Well from society. As a whole it reflects what people want.
The free spirit of the 60's, the greed of the 80's the Jingoism of the Victorians the "nuff resect" of the ninetys.

I think you misunderstood my question, Barney.

My question was, where do those people who oppose the morals of the society of their day, and who push to reform moral values get their values from?
The people who advocated against slavery, for example.
The ones who tried to fight the Nazi regime.
The ones who hid and protected 'witches'.

 

[barney]

ahh! Getcha now!

It comes from what i call "original Goodness" (Copyright Barneyism 2008).
This is the theory that within the human psyche their is a drive to form social groups in order to help each other. its why we dont all live in single bedroom houses and carry a AK74 shooting it at nearcomers. It's why we dont wee against the trunk of our garden trees to mark our territory.

Within this integral drive is a understanding of "sweet mercy! look at that poor freaking witch up on the bonfire there!...i wouldnt like that to be me"

I beleive this integral goodness was what fuelled jesus's message and the Grand wiccans message and ghandi's message and the Hippys message.
Within us all too is the need to compete, and this balances with Original goodness, (to use the concept of O.G, please make an easy payment of £3 to the bank of Barney, (i take paypal).
This need to compete manifests in Moses's message of "chosen people" in Thatchers Message of Yuppies and in Hitlers message of the Master-race.

I could ramble all night on this, but thats it in a nutshell.

 

[glo]

Could this "original Goodness" (Copyright Barneyism 2008) be divinely inspired?

"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."

 

[snakelegs]

Could this "original Goodness" (Copyright Barneyism 2008) be divinely inspired?

i will change the term to "innate goodness" so i don't tread on copyright.
my answer is - yes, of course.

 

[barney]

Could this "original Goodness" (Copyright Barneyism 2008) be divinely inspired?

"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."

It's possible that a original creating force designed sentinant life.

Once life is sentinent we know that it has free will unless an external factor prevents this , like a hypnotist, and i could show that that involves free will too.
The free will simply has to be able to operate on flight or fight or it would cease to be a free willed being, since it would be extinct within generations.

Our advanced brains have taken this a step further. Chimps can pick the fleas off each other because its helpful as a species to help each other.
More evolved processing power and experience of previous generations all add to a constant evolving Original Goodness (Copyright Barnyism) .

After Rawanda, we said as a culture "never again" and so when Kosovo kicked off, we were in there. Humanity helping humanity.
After WW1 started over lack of trust and lack of ability to negotiate as a group we said "never again", so we tried the League of nations. Humanity helping humanity.

So O.G (C Barneyism 2008) stems from a natural state of survival and working out the best way to progress.

But we need a creating force.

This craeting force in my studies has nothing to do with beings called Yahweh or Allah or Jesus.

 

[Ghira]

Hi Barney


As a Christian I understand the sentiment of 'doing things to please God'. In fact, our whole life should be aimed at that purpose.
And yet, I struggle with the concept of 'doing things to gain God's reward' or 'doing things to avoid God's punishment'. Don't get me wrong, I understand those principles, and I am not saying they are wrong.

But in terms of living my life by them, they enter into my thinking very rarely.

My perception is better described like this:
I know that God loves me. I love God. Our relationship is defined by love.
My greatest desire is to please God - not so much so gain his reward, or to avoid his anger ... but to just please him and bring him joy!
That is my greatest motivator.

I can translate this to a human level, for demonstration.
I love to me nice to my husband, just to see him happy! He doesn't need to bring me flowers in return. Nor do I think 'Phew, perhaps he won't be angry now, when he realises that I scratched the car ...'
Rewards or anger don't really come into the equasion of treating my husband lovingly.

I'm not sure if I am making sense ...

Peace

Christians have this love thing mixed up. They understand God is love and God loves us!! Then again many Christians believe God has conditions on his love. Meaning God does not have unconditional love. I think you have to search what are the conditions to attain his pleasure/love. I am sure It is not simply to say a statement that He killed his only begotten son for the sin of man. If that is the case, then according to Christians we have a God who has a strange condition to attain his pleasure/love. A confusing statement that God, part man, part God, part holy ghost has died for the sins of man.

God does not need our righteous actions, and God is not need of our love for Him. It works the other way around, God wants you to do good for your own well-being. We need Him and He needs no one. One of the names of God in Islam is self-sufficient.

Hell and Heaven are part of way to show God showing man His ultimate mercy and grueling punishment. God with His wisdom knows how the human mind works and what gets them thinking and be in the right path. This is one way. Of course, some say I will do this act purely for the sake of God's pleasure. I commend that but most of us understand the truth of this temporary life and the eternity of hereafter. The only way we can be saved from hell-fire is by the mercy of God, not just by our actions. Our actions will not suffice but the mercy of God will. We must attain that mercy by gaining the pleasure of God in the way that He and His Messenger has prescribed for us.

God does love His creation and wants to guide them to his everlasting paradise. God is also is able to punish those who break disobey Him, worship others beside him by sending to the pits of hell. Most definitely we believe His Mercy prevails over His wrath.