Hello I look forward to learning

[AabiruSabeel]

You may be surprised to know that no where in the Holy Qur'an does it explicitly state that the Torah, for example, has been interpolated or that it's text has been corrupted.

That is wrong. There are plenty of places in the Qur'an where Allah :swt: says about the previous scriptures that they have been altered and interpolated.


Allah :swt: says:

أَفَتَطْمَعُونَ أَن يُؤْمِنُوا لَكُمْ وَقَدْ كَانَ فَرِيقٌ مِّنْهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ كَلَامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ مِن بَعْدِ مَا عَقَلُوهُ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ​

Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing? [2:75]

Qutaadah said: “The phrase ‘then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it’ refers to the Jews, who used to hear the words of Allaah, then they altered it after they had understood what it meant.”

Abu ‘Aaliyah said: “They took what Allaah had revealed in their Book describing Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and changed its meaning.” Ibn Zayd said: “The phrase ‘[they] used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it’ refers to the Tawraat which Allaah revealed to them; they changed it, making what it permitted forbidden, and what was forbidden allowed, changing the truth to falsehood and falsehood to truth…” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]​

فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَٰذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۖ فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ​

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. [2:79]

وَإِنَّ مِنْهُمْ لَفَرِيقًا يَلْوُونَ أَلْسِنَتَهُم بِالْكِتَابِ لِتَحْسَبُوهُ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَقُولُونَ هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَيَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ الْكَذِبَ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ​

And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, "This is from Allah ," but it is not from Allah . And they speak untruth about Allah while they know. [3:78]


Allah :swt: also says:

مِّنَ الَّذِينَ هَادُوا يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنَا وَعَصَيْنَا وَاسْمَعْ غَيْرَ مُسْمَعٍ وَرَاعِنَا لَيًّا بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ وَطَعْنًا فِي الدِّينِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَاسْمَعْ وَانظُرْنَا لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَأَقْوَمَ وَلَٰكِن لَّعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا​

Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. [4:46]


Allah :swt: says:

فَبِمَا نَقْضِهِم مِّيثَاقَهُمْ لَعَنَّاهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا قُلُوبَهُمْ قَاسِيَةً ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ ۙ وَنَسُوا حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُوا بِهِ ۚ وَلَا تَزَالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلَىٰ خَائِنَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا مِّنْهُمْ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاصْفَحْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ​

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good. [5:13]

 

[AabiruSabeel]

I said the Torah specifically has never been explicitly mentioned as being Munharif (interpolated) anywhere in the Qur’an.
This Verse you quoted (2:75) does not mention the word Torah.

You can deny as much as you want, but the passage is speaking about the Jews and the scripture in this passage refers to the Torah.

 

[Delete.]

حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ الْهَمْدَانِيُّ ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ وَهْبٍ ، حَدَّثَنِي هِشَامُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ ، أَنَّ زَيْدَ بْنَ أَسْلَمَ حَدَّثَهُ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ ، قَالَ : أَتَى نَفَرٌ مِنْ يَهُودَ فَدَعَوْا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْقُفِّ فَأَتَاهُمْ فِي بَيْتِ الْمِدْرَاسِ ، فَقَالُوا : " يَا أَبَا الْقَاسِمِ إِنَّ رَجُلًا مِنَّا زَنَى بِامْرَأَةٍ ، فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ ، فَوَضَعُوا لِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وِسَادَةً فَجَلَسَ عَلَيْهَا ، ثُمَّ قَالَ : ائْتُونيِ بِالتَّوْرَاةِ فَأُتِيَ بِهَا ، فَنَزَعَ الْوِسَادَةَ مِنْ تَحْتِهِ فَوَضَعَ التَّوْرَاةَ عَلَيْهَا ، ثُمَّ قَالَ : آمَنْتُ بِكِ وَبِمَنْ أَنْزَلَكِ ، ثُمَّ قَالَ : ائْتُونِي بِأَعْلَمِكُمْ ، فَأُتِيَ بِفَتًى شَابٍّ "

Sunan Abi Dawud: Kitab al Hudud; Bab Fee Rajm al-Yahudiyain

Didn't you mention the authority of Ibn Hazm in another one of your posts?

He (ibn Hazm) said: "As for the report in which the Prophet (salaAllahu alayhi wa salam) took the Tawrah and said: "I believe in thee", it is a fabricated false report that did not reach us with proper chain of transmission (from Al-Fisal fe al-Milal wa al-Ahwaa wa al-Nihal 1/237)

All of the other transmissions of this Hadith have absolutely no mention of Nabi salaAllahu alayhi wa salam praising the Tawrah.

Regardless, you contradicted yourself. Another scholar whom you have mentioned the reliability of, Ibn Kathir, said in his Tafseer, "These Hadiths state that the Messenger of Allah issued a decision that conforms with the ruling in the Tawrah, not to honor the Jews in what they believe in, for the Jews were commanded to follow the Law of Muhammad only. Rather, the Prophet did this because Allah commanded him to do so. He asked them about the ruling of stoning in the Tawrah to make them admit to what the Tawrah contains and what they collaborated to hide, deny and exclude from implementing for all that time. They had to admit to what they did, although they did it while having knowledge of the correct ruling..."

And this was the explanation of Qur'an 5:41

There is so much evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah that "nullifies" the previous Scriptures, and if you know the definition of the word "null" this would be absolutely clear. I don't know how it is even arguable. And I really do advise you to fear Allah before you continue posting without knowledge.

Allah knows best.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

However, understand my point. The Torah which he Jews read from today, in their Hebrew scrolls, is still to be referred to as Torah and respected, as I proved from the Sunnah. This indicates that even if the Torah which the Jews read from today has been interpolated, it must be a very minimal interpolation so that the text can still be referred to by the name “Torah”.

The Torah that existed with the Jews of Madinah during the time of Rasulullah :saws: might have been the original one. See this https://islamqa.info/ar/216734

As Muslims, we believe in all the previous scriptures revealed by Allah :swt: and we respect them. But the existing ones today are no longer in their original form.

قال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية رحمه الله :ـ
" قِيلَ : لَيْسَ فِي الْعَالِمِ نُسْخَةٌ بِنَفْسِ مَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالْإِنْجِيلِ ؛ بَلْ ذَلِكَ مُبَدَّلٌ ؛ فَإِنَّ التَّوْرَاةَ انْقَطَعَ تَوَاتُرُهَا ، وَالْإِنْجِيلَ إنَّمَا أُخِذَ عَنْ أَرْبَعَةٍ . ثُمَّ مِنْ هَؤُلَاءِ مَنْ زَعَمَ أَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِمَّا فِي التَّوْرَاةِ أَوْ الْإِنْجِيلِ بَاطِلٌ لَيْسَ مِنْ كَلَامِ اللَّهِ ، وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ قَالَ : بَلْ ذَلِكَ قَلِيلٌ . وَقِيلَ لَمْ يُحَرِّفْ أَحَدٌ شَيْئًا مِنْ حُرُوفِ الْكُتُبِ وَإِنَّمَا حَرَّفُوا مَعَانِيَهَا بِالتَّأْوِيلِ ، وَهَذَانِ الْقَوْلَانِ قَالَ كُلًّا مِنْهُمَا كَثِيرٌ مِنْ الْمُسْلِمِينَ ، وَالصَّحِيحُ الْقَوْلُ الثَّالِث ُ، وَهُوَ أَنَّ فِي الْأَرْضِ نُسَخًا صَحِيحَةً وَبَقِيَتْ إلَى عَهْدِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَنُسَخًا كَثِيرَةً مُحَرَّفَةً " انتهى من "مجموع الفتاوى" (13/ 103-104)​

 

[Delete.]

When it comes to the grading of Hadith, Ibn Hazm is a poor choice to refer to. I’m sure you know that Ibn Hazm was not even aware of the existence of the Jami’ al-Tirmidhi.

You completely ignored the rest of my post, as you did in other threads as well (not just to me). Your tactic seems to be to ignore the most relevant topics of discussion.

Many of your posts are misleading and innovative. Fear the Day you will be held accountable. It's not my motive to force you to accept any view that you do not agree with, but my advice to you is to open your mind and when sound knowledge comes to you, don't blindly debate it based on personal views and interpretations.

Anyways, forgive me for the sake of Allah if I offend you, and excuse me from any further conversation. I have seen you are capable of being knowledgeable enough to know for yourself what agrees with the Qur'an and Sunnah, and what doesn't.

Allah knows best. Fi aman Allah.