Help! Very Confused About the Islamic Ruling On Cannabis & Psychedelic Use!

[Shamnadanu]

Dont you ever know...cannabis cause addiction...recent scientific studies are a Joke bro...some people just use quran to market the cannabis... Today this addiction caused destruction of so many families. Those who use cannabis and cigarettes ....i see muslim women with hijab smoking...today people misuse and misunderstand..No matter this is no new subject.Cannabis or any toxic is haraam..Final

 

[Serinity]

Any kind of drug, be it hash, heroine, esctasy. Any drug is haram. None here will tell you it is OK to take drugs except those who don't know about the Quraan.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

 

[M.I.A.]

im not so sure anymore..

some of the most dangerous people i know use drugs.

everytime they turn up you know its not good news or glad tidings.

but they are made use of.. are they not?

haram holds a position of strength in todays world.

i have no idea about tomorrow.

although i could most definitely be wrong.

..does this constitute backbiting? because that would just be the iceing on the cake.

i hope its not a confusing answer.

everybody turns up for somebody.
...

Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all Muslims had to convert to Catholicism or leave Italy. There was a huge outcry from the Muslim community, so the Pope offered a deal.He'd have a religious debate with the leader of the Muslim community. If the Muslims won, they could stay in Italy; and if the Pope won, they'd have to convert or leave. The Muslim people met and picked an aged and wise Mufti to represent them in the debate.However, as the Mufti spoke no Italian, and the Pope spoke no Arabic, they agreed that it would be a "silent" debate.On the chosen day the Pope and Mufti sat opposite each other.The Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers.The Mufti looked back and raised one finger.Next, the Pope waved his finger around his head.The Mufti pointed to the ground where he sat.The Pope brought out a communion wafer and a chalice of wine.The Mufti pulled out an apple.With that, the Pope stood up and declared himself beaten and said that the Moulana was too clever.The Muslims could stay in Italy.Later the cardinals met with the Pope and asked him what had happened.The Pope said, "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity."He responded by holding up a single finger to remind me there is still only one God!"Then, I waved my finger around my head to show him that God was all around us."He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us."I pulled out the wine and wafer to show that God absolves us of all our sins."He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin."He beat me at every move and I could not continue!"Meanwhile, the Muslim community gathered to ask the Mufti how he'd won."I haven't a clue," the Mufti said."First, he told me that we had three days to get out of Italy, so I gave him the finger."Then he tells me that the whole country would be cleared of Muslims and I told him that we were staying right here!""And then what?" asked a woman."Who knows?" said the Mufti. "He took out his lunch so I took out mine."

 

[beleiver]

I respect and thank you for your replies, but the fact is Cannabis is non Toxic, i can see why most people associate recreational drugs with bad people as the fact they are illegal attracts criminals and makes it a gateway drug due to the fact it is illegal , nothing else..There are very few pot heads i ever met that dont drink and do other drugs, cannabis actually helps people get over much worst addictions and keeps many people away from real bad drugs like alcohol and heroin..
Also its very not addictive, only very slight, much less than caffeine..Like drinking coffee every day, why would people choose to stop something they enjoy, its purely psychological and much less a physical addiction than even caffeine.
And the health dangers are virtually non existent only when smoked with tobacco..Its impossible to overdose on Cannabis, no one in history has died from consuming Cannabis..

"The Arabic word used for intoxicant is 'khamr', and I'm no expert on Arabic but it's root meaning is something which 'covers' or 'conceals' In this case the intellect of man."

This is why i love what the Quran says regarding drugs.. once we realize most drugs like alcohol are downers or antipshycotics and they do without doubt cover or cloud the mind, Cannabis is psychoactive, it opens the mind, its complete opposite effect..The OP of the thread is confused too and rightfully uses the word 'psychedelics' with cannabis as psychedelics open the mind, they dont cause actual hallucinations as such but open ones mind..
Surely God wouldn't have a problem with open minded and happy people? Open minded happy people are much more likely to discover the truth about God and do good works and ward of evil than someone with a closed depressed mind?
Cannabis and the consumption of it, it can be reasonably argued is the oldest continually religious practice in known history..
And the notion that psychedelics destroys intellect is false or at best very questionable, the OP is by a university student, i have known many people that flew through university and got their degree that consumed Cannabis..
The Wikipedia cannabis page i find misleading going on outdated science and peddling the same half truth and lies put out by big pharma and such corporate interests that have so much to loose when the truth about the medicinal and industrial uses of cannabis and hemp sees the light, big pharma and their co-existence with petrochemicals and other such corporate interests, their monopolies would be greatly reduced, and what does God say about monopolies?
There is good reason there is so little well financed scientific study on Cannabis and so much disinformation..Imagine if people could grow their own cure for most common and complex aliments?

As i have said, i have traveled a good bit and had a good few deep meaning fulls with Muslims while smoking my joint and never got the impression it was haram, in fact most people said it's not , its just illegal..Its been consumed in these Arab speaking and predominantly Muslim countries countries for 1000+ years..

I would like to hear more about the history of prohibition of Cannabis in Islam, i believe it first happened in Egypt, but i read the ruling dynasty of the time were very oppressive and wanted to crush dissent?
I find it a little sad Islamic community in general is so against it, as doesn't God say? me to my religion and you to yours? And doesn't religion translate in Arabic as 'way of life'?
Though i want to stress i can understand the best way to be close to God is pure and natural and consuming cannabis on a daily basis for years, never knowing ones natural sate of mind is indeed a sin, for me its something i like on occasion that i know does help me spiritually, and who else can make judgement on that but God?
If i cause no harm or loss to another , is it anyone else Business? Is it not haram to deny someone that suffers effective medicine while indirectly supporting an evil monopoly ? Or deny a viable food crop to farmers that struggle to afford herbicides and pesticides in this world where many go hungry? Or deny therapy from a lost soul living in a world that no longer cares?

I leave you all to ponder this, why would God create us with an Endocannabinoid System? What other use is it?
[h=4]A few links for the inquiring mind..Just a few random ones, the first link though is an introduction into the Endocannabinoid System..[/h]http://norml.org/library/item/introduction-to-the-endocannabinoid-system

http://www.naturalblaze.com/2017/02...ve-effects-in-stroke-cardiac-emergencies.html

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/study-smoking-marijuana-not-linked-with-lung-damage/

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/307/1/129?sid=b91c50eb-5281-4d28-878a-43da4a2267ec

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(13)00200-3/abstract

http://herb.co/2016/09/23/new-study-cannabis-pregnant/

 

[Scimitar]

I respect and thank you for your replies, but the fact is Cannabis is non Toxic,

STOP right here.

The Islamic understadning of the word "toxic" differs from the Modern Wests understanding.

The west take an altogether scientific view of the word toxic - whereas in Islam, the word "khamr" is used to describe something which takes you out of your "natural state".

When you smoke weed, you get high - that's taking you away from your natural state.

Intoxication means two very different things, dependant on where you get your definition from.

If you side with the wests definition - you are opposing the Arabic definition within Islam.

If you adopt the Islamic understanding of the word "Khamr" (ie: intoxication) you will be at odds with the western definition of the word.

So when you apply your unilingual use of the word to cannabis - you are doing your Muslim mind no favours.

Cannabis is Haraam. Full stop.

Choice is now yours - which version of "INTOXICATION" do you side with?

Scimi

 

[M.I.A.]

...it would probably sort my back pain..

but its been at least 11 years since i was even able to think about doing such a thing..

im sure if i did so today even the walls would speak about it lol.

its far from as simple as beleiver makes it out to be...

but what a person does in ignorance he cannot do once he is aware..

stay asleep.

its far from me to say who is the pope and who is the mufti.


do or do not do, there is no try.

 

[beleiver]

STOP right here.

The Islamic understadning of the word "toxic" differs from the Modern Wests understanding.

The west take an altogether scientific view of the word toxic - whereas in Islam, the word "khamr" is used to describe something which takes you out of your "natural state".

When you smoke weed, you get high - that's taking you away from your natural state.

Intoxication means two very different things, dependant on where you get your definition from.

If you side with the wests definition - you are opposing the Arabic definition within Islam.

If you adopt the Islamic understanding of the word "Khamr" (ie: intoxication) you will be at odds with the western definition of the word.

So when you apply your unilingual use of the word to cannabis - you are doing your Muslim mind no favours.

Cannabis is Haraam. Full stop.

Choice is now yours - which version of "INTOXICATION" do you side with?

Scimi

Well that would change every thing, do you have a link?

A trusted friend whose first language is Arabic said it meant to cover which fits ant research i have done it is the same word used in Quran were it says for women to cover their breasts, if it meant natural state then someone is doing it wrong

 

[beleiver]

...it would probably sort my back pain..

but its been at least 11 years since i was even able to think about doing such a thing..

im sure if i did so today even the walls would speak about it lol.

its far from as simple as beleiver makes it out to be...

but what a person does in ignorance he cannot do once he is aware..

stay asleep.

its far from me to say who is the pope and who is the mufti.


do or do not do, there is no try.

I dont understand why a perfectly natural virtually non toxic plant God gave us is not permissible, do you take anything for your pain? is all medicine and pain killer haram?

Isnt God perfect? and doesnt it say for every ailment, God gave us a natural cure?

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

I dont understand why a perfectly natural virtually non toxic plant God gave us is not permissible

Pig is perfectly natural, too. Non-toxic as well. Why is it not permissible?

 

[Scimitar]

Well that would change every thing, do you have a link?

No. I read this in books years ago.

But I'm sure google can help - however I'd prefer to listen to Huzaifah ibn Adam, as he is a student of knowledge within Islam.

Your premise - Weed is natural... vs Huzaifah's rebuttal with "so is a pig" shows you that your logic is flawed.

It's enough for us to realize that not all things natural are halal. Like weed. Like pig. Like stabbing yourself in the eye with a miswak. You understand?

Scimi

 

[sister herb]

I dont understand why a perfectly natural virtually non toxic plant God gave us is not permissible, do you take anything for your pain? is all medicine and pain killer haram?

Isnt God perfect? and doesnt it say for every ailment, God gave us a natural cure?

Natural cure for what? Some people may use cannabis and other drugs because they feel themselves unhappy, empty or "want to expand their minds" or what ever. For those problems studing and following Islam gives much better natural cure. Islam is not toxic. It´s free cure to all your problems and totally safe.

But about cannabis:

-------------------------------


Studies have shown that cannabis increases the risk of acute psychosis and may cause long-term consequences, such as schizophrenia. The risk is increased especially at a young age began their users and the risks are increased with increasing use. Cannabis use also increases the risk of depression, anxiety and mood disorders. [1] [17]

Smoking cannabis cause damage to the respiratory tract. Oral, laryngeal and pharyngeal cancer risk is increased cannabis smokers. Respiratory arrest and marijuana smoke deep Pulling increase the migration and accumulation of respiratory particles and tar. Users found in the mucous membrane infections, chronic bronchitis, cough, and emphysema. Young cannabis users have been found in regions of tumors in the mouth, which is not normally present in their age group. [3] [15] [17]

Cannabis use raises the pulse and blood pressure, which is exposed to cardiovascular disorders and stroke, especially among older users [3] [17]

Cannabis use is likely to negatively influence the fertility ability of men and women and sexual desire, especially in men [3] [17]

Cannabis learning ability and can impair the educational success of young people and adults from doing tasks that require mental performance [3]. Cannabis use could worsen the already established diseases (cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, depression, schizophrenia, substance abuse).

Risks and disadvantages of the fetus: cannabis during pregnancy, mothers burned children have been found in a lower birth weight and stunting. Use during pregnancy increases the risk of premature birth. used by burning cannabis effects on the fetus are probably similar to tobacco, among others. impair fetal nutrient intakes. Cannabis use during pregnancy may cause a child to leukemia and deterioration of cognitive abilities and school performance in later life. an increase in birth defects is not conclusive evidence, but the possibility can not be completely ruled out. Cannabis influential substance THC is excreted in human breast milk and sucked the baby.

Source (translated from): http://www.paihdelinkki.fi/fi/tietopankki/pikatieto/kannabis

 

[M.I.A.]

I dont understand why a perfectly natural virtually non toxic plant God gave us is not permissible, do you take anything for your pain? is all medicine and pain killer haram?

Isnt God perfect? and doesnt it say for every ailment, God gave us a natural cure?

bad seating posture is the bane of my life...

no pun intended.

i just need to find the will to get my butt of this chair..

i may just remove the chair from the room.

but i think a lot of posters have answered your question rather thoroughly.

 

[beleiver]

No. I read this in books years ago.

But I'm sure google can help - however I'd prefer to listen to Huzaifah ibn Adam, as he is a student of knowledge within Islam.

Your premise - Weed is natural... vs Huzaifah's rebuttal with "so is a pig" shows you that your logic is flawed.

It's enough for us to realize that not all things natural are halal. Like weed. Like pig. Like stabbing yourself in the eye with a miswak. You understand?

Scimi

I would rather listen to God, no one can speck for him no? Isnt what i eat to be judged by God when my day comes?
I see no relationship between a Pig and one of oldest know medicinal and most useful plants known to man..

 

[Scimitar]

I would rather listen to God.

You came here - to an Islamic forum, heard what the Muslims have to say - and because you don't like it - you post this?

I see no relationship between a Pig and one of oldest know medicinal and most useful plants known to man..

I see no history of Arabs using cannabis as a cure for anything.

So talk all you like - you forget that you are no doctor and therefore when you take cannabis under the pretense of "medicinal use" you are in fact - claiming to self administer a dosage to your self - BUT - you are no Doctor... so you lie to your self.

Seems to me like on the day of judgement - you will get one heck of a nasty comeuppance for your self deception.

Wallahi you are lost.

Scimi

 

[Scimitar]

I think I have made a decent argument for my case...[/snip]

I fell off my chair laughing. Nice joke lol.

Seriuously, you should think of being a standup comedian.

Scimi

 

[beleiver]

Natural cure for what? Some people may use cannabis and other drugs because they feel themselves unhappy, empty or "want to expand their minds" or what ever. For those problems studing and following Islam gives much better natural cure. Islam is not toxic. It´s free cure to all your problems and totally safe.

Do you want a list? The list grows every day as unbiased independent research is done..The undeniable ones known for a long time include off the top of my head, Asthma, epilepsy, Glaucoma,MS, Multiple sclerosis being there is nothing else that relieves the symptoms, thats been recognized by medical science for many years now..There is increasing evidence and numerous testimonies that it reduces Tumors and inhibits the spread of cancer..A few post back i posted some links, there are many many more..I urge you to read about the endocannaboniod system which explains why Cannabis is opposite to toxic.
I agree that being close to God is the best way to find true happiness and Islam addresses much of the worlds problems, To me banning a natural medicine that supports the corporate monopolies on medicine and health is one of the worlds problems, so is condemning some one that has caused no harm or loss to another, which i find tragic as modern day Islam appears to support this..While the Quran to me at least condemns that.
Its not just me that has asked and wondered if consumption and the happiness it gives and the open mind feeling can draw us closer to God, its been consumed by spiritual and religious folk throughout recorded history..Its certainly partly responsible for opening my mind to the one God and my study of Islam..Though i have learned constant use and addiction to every thing is bad, god is our best teacher.

These points below are easy enough debunked and flaws can be found in the methods of many of such studies or at best very questionable, i recommend more research..Many stats are sqewed due to prohibition and studies carried out by the corporations that have an obvious conflict of interest, like the CDC being controlled my the pharma giants that make billions out the vaccines they approve.

But about cannabis:

-------------------------------


Studies have shown that cannabis increases the risk of acute psychosis and may cause long-term consequences, such as schizophrenia. The risk is increased especially at a young age began their users and the risks are increased with increasing use. Cannabis use also increases the risk of depression, anxiety and mood disorders. [1] [17]

Smoking cannabis cause damage to the respiratory tract. Oral, laryngeal and pharyngeal cancer risk is increased cannabis smokers. Respiratory arrest and marijuana smoke deep Pulling increase the migration and accumulation of respiratory particles and tar. Users found in the mucous membrane infections, chronic bronchitis, cough, and emphysema. Young cannabis users have been found in regions of tumors in the mouth, which is not normally present in their age group. [3] [15] [17]

Cannabis use raises the pulse and blood pressure, which is exposed to cardiovascular disorders and stroke, especially among older users [3] [17]

Cannabis use is likely to negatively influence the fertility ability of men and women and sexual desire, especially in men [3] [17]

Cannabis learning ability and can impair the educational success of young people and adults from doing tasks that require mental performance [3]. Cannabis use could worsen the already established diseases (cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, depression, schizophrenia, substance abuse).

Risks and disadvantages of the fetus: cannabis during pregnancy, mothers burned children have been found in a lower birth weight and stunting. Use during pregnancy increases the risk of premature birth. used by burning cannabis effects on the fetus are probably similar to tobacco, among others. impair fetal nutrient intakes. Cannabis use during pregnancy may cause a child to leukemia and deterioration of cognitive abilities and school performance in later life. an increase in birth defects is not conclusive evidence, but the possibility can not be completely ruled out. Cannabis influential substance THC is excreted in human breast milk and sucked the baby.

Source (translated from): http://www.paihdelinkki.fi/fi/tietopankki/pikatieto/kannabis

 

[M.I.A.]

you make a fair point, the united states has a changing stance on cannabis..

although i suspect its as much to do with government revenue as it is with alternative therapies.

i know that the idealist has no place in a changing world..

it is part of progress.

everybody and everything plays its part.. although i do not know to what end.

you makes your choices, you takes your chances.. those things that are done by some people cannot be done by all people..

but you must understand this.

there is always a tomorrow.

ya seen.

leave it at that really.

allah swt protect us from the evil of our own selves and the evil of the shaitan and his followers.

 

[beleiver]

You came here - to an Islamic forum, heard what the Muslims have to say - and because you don't like it - you post this


I see no history of Arabs using cannabis as a cure for anything.

So talk all you like - you forget that you are no doctor and therefore when you take cannabis under the pretense of "medicinal use" you are in fact - claiming to self administer a dosage to your self - BUT - you are no Doctor... so you lie to your self.

Seems to me like on the day of judgement - you will get one heck of a nasty comeuppance for your self deception.

Wallahi you are lost.

Scimi

Sorry if i offend, i do believe in God and have known many Muslims that say cannabis is not haram, i have consumed cannabis in all Muslim countries i have visited without ill feeling, so i come here to respectfully discuss what i believe is an important issue..
God is the truth and the punisher? can you really say what the truth is with no proof? can you really punish another with no truth?

I dare you go find evidence of a more useful and medicinal plant and we can talk..Till then i will continue to obey God and him alone and listen to no other..And stay away from things that cover the mind and from transgressors that ban the good things he made lawful and mind my own business, keep anger and hate out my mind and speak out against injustice. ..

 

[Scimitar]

Sorry if i offend,

Go tell your parents you want to smoke cannabis and lets see how they react? Jannah is after all, under the feet of your parents.

If you disobey them - bro - you disobey Allah.

i do believe in God and have known many Muslims that say cannabis is not haram, i have consumed cannabis in all Muslim countries i have visited without ill feeling, so i come here to respectfully discuss what i believe is an important issue..

What Muslim nations?

Afghanistan? Pakistan? Those two failed nations? Where else? Egypt? Another failed nation? Where else ???? please do tell me.

As for your Muslim friends telling you its ok to smoke it - duh - idiot - if they smoke it so of course they will say its ok.

God is the truth and the punisher? can you really say what the truth is with no proof? can you really punish another with no truth?

Is this what drugs are doing to your brain? making it push putty? You don't even know what you are talking about now.

I dare you go find evidence of a more useful and medicinal plant and we can talk..Till then i will continue to obey God and him alone and listen to no other..And stay away from things that cover the mind and from transgressors that ban the good things he made lawful and mind my own business, keep anger and hate out my mind and speak out against injustice. ..

Oh you done it now.

Cannabis cures nothing.

Find me a cannabis which cures any disease - you cannot.

Go on.

I bring to my table - nigella sativa, (the black seed from hadeeth) the oil of which is beneficial and so are the seeds - studies have shown that of the 200 or so compound elements present within Nigella Sativa - only around 48 are known to the scientific and medical establishments and all are beneficial to humans, in many diverse ways - as cures, not treatments - CURES to diseases.

The other 150 odd compound elements they found present within Nigella Sativa remain unnamed but all tested positively on human beings and further studies are underway in many medical universities where research like this goes on.

Let's contrast to Cannabis... which form are you talking of? Indica? Sativa? Ruderalis? Hybrid GMO?

None of these are actually medicinal. They do not CURE any illness - they provide pain relief, and the proper method for pain relief via cannabis is through ingestion. Not smoking it.

And even then, the results are hit n miss.

Ever seen a pain sufferer on cannabis? They are stoned and cannot actually function normally - such as drive a car. As that would be illegal.

Cannabis provides no cure to any disease.

I know all about cannabis. Astagfirullah - I grew it for many years and grew the best this country has seen, even got noticed by Arjan and Franco from GHsCO in Amsterdam back in my hey day for it, mety Jorge Cervantes, the man who made skunk a think in the 70's - heck I attended cannabis cups in spain and in the dam - and to top it all off - I used to write for weed world and used to be a moderator for ICMAG forum.

Once again - cannabis cures NOTHING.

Scimi

EDIT: Rick Simpson lied about RSO.

 

[sister herb]

Sorry beleiver, I think I have misunderstood you. I thought you came here to learn more about Islam but seems that your only purpose is promote drugs.

From the Quran you only try to find excuses why using drugs like cannabis would to be ok but you refuse to listen when we show you evidences that it is haram (forbidden) in Islam.

On that basis, I believe that the continuation of this kind of conversation is no longer necessary.