Hey Agnostics & Atheists: Do you ever worry?

[Trumble]

You only find out the answers after you die.

That's your answer, totally unsupported by 'evidence' I would add! Atheists can quite reasonably claim that after death there is no 'you' to do any finding out, so from their perspective that statement is nonsensical. As I said, different answers to the same questions. People are no less (or more) intelligent than you because they disagree with you. Indeed I would suggest it is the atheists who accept the evidence and the the theists who choose to ignore it. But, of course, you will disagree.

Oh, I forgot, of course you have. According to your religion buddhism, you have died before and reborn.

According to my religion, Buddhism, there is no "me" to be reborn in the sense you mean.

 

[Ramadhan]

That's your answer, totally unsupported by 'evidence' I would add! Atheists can quite reasonably claim that after death there is no 'you' to do any finding out, so from their perspective that statement is nonsensical.

ok, maybe atheists find it nonsensical, but which part is wrong when i say "the answers lie at the end of our life", whether you believe in afterlife or not?

It's like a baby in the womb. they have no way of knowing whether there is life after the womb, and they only find out after they are born.

As I said, different answers to the same questions. People are no less (or more) intelligent than you because they disagree with you

Did I say anything about being intelligence? why are you being defensive?

and anyway, "one's own conclusions" is not the same as "the answer".

Indeed I would suggest it is the atheists who accept the evidence and the the theists who choose to ignore it. But, of course, you will disagree.

What evidence?
Oh did you mean the evidence that the most ancient and the most modern science say that this universe was created?
The evidence that everything in this universe is caused by something else?
I didn't realize that atheists accept those?

According to my religion, Buddhism, there is no "me" to be reborn in the sense you mean.

from http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm


Buddhists do not believe that death is the end of life. When one dies, one's consciousness leaves and enters one of the six paths of rebirth.

• Heavenly Beings

• Humans

• Asuras are beings who have many good things in life, but still like to fight. They appear in the heavens or on earth as people or animals.

• Hungry ghosts are beings who suffer from constant hunger.

• Hell-beings

These are the six states on the wheel of life. At the top are the heavens, where everyone is happy. Below are the hells where the suffering is unbearable. Beings can rise or fall from one path to another. If one does good deeds, one will be born into the paths of gods, humans, or asuras. If one does evil deeds, one will be born into the paths of animals, hungry ghosts, or hell-beings. From one life to the next one can suddenly change from an human to an animal or from a ghost to a hell-being, according to the things one has done.

So what were you before this life?
Hungry Ghosts?

Please tell us more about your previous lifetimes! Im sure they were colorful.

Or are you rejecting the tenets of your faith?

 

[جوري]

No, they ask the questions long before that. They just find different answers.

well yesterday he was looking for a different set of answers since those he concluded prior if at all didn't seem satisfactory!.. and to comfort him, I told him why not simply ask if there is something more out there to be shown some sign in a dream.. and he very much liked the idea!

The atheists that I have encountered in real life, albeit less annoying than the ones on this forum, simply had no reason to dig deeper.. they like their materialistic existence and have no reason to ask any deep questions until something like the death of his father occurred to shake that meaningless existence and I suspect if he busies himself with life and starts to stop grieving then all those forces that are pushing him to search for more will cease all together and he'll go back to his usual hedonistic meaningless life!

all the best

 

[Pygoscelis]

I don't know about pews or synagogues, but I have to ask you something:

why would there be far more agnostics and atheists in mosques than the true muslims ever imagine?

I believe that the number one reason would be circumstances of birth; being born into a muslim family and commmunity. An atheist or agnostic may grow up with Muslim parents and siblings (who they assume are Muslim but may actually be in the same condition you are) and pretend to believe for the social harmony.

For many atheists and agnostics coming out as a non-believer simply isn't worth the price one risks paying, socially, politically, and financially. Unlike true Muslims and Christians, many atheists have no real pride or loyalty to their atheism and are quite happy to fake religion if it benefits them. There are even business people who fake being religious for the financial connections. These are the atheists you don't hear about or from. You only hear from those of us who are not born into such social settings or who are bold enough to weather the storm (which may be why you guys perceive atheists in general as being brash).

And yes, these hidden non-beleivers include more Muslims than I think you may realize. As you realize, apostacy from Islam isn't smiled upon by other muslims, especially if one goes on to speak their new views honestly and criticize Islam. The reaction can be hateful and even violent (perhaps even murderous in extreme cases). At the very least it causes tension within families and causes loved ones to worry. Going through some rituals, fasting, praying, even at great expense, can be worth it to many people to avoid such consequences.

I personally know some atheists in the muslim closet, who refuse to come out for the above reasons. I bet you also know some, but don't realize it. They can talk to me (if they are a good friend and trust me not to blab it) without fear of being judged or of endangering our friendship.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[Trumble]

The atheists that I have encountered in real life, albeit less annoying than the ones on this forum, simply had no reason to dig deeper.. they like their materialistic existence and have no reason to ask any deep questions until something like the death of his father occurred to shake that meaningless existence....

I think Pygoscelis touches on this in the previous post. What makes you think that the majority of muslims and Christians 'dig deeper' than what they absorb as part of their culture and elementary education? Obviously people of whatever religion who visit forums such as this are unlikely to be typical in that regard. The atheist, though, would argue that the whole point of the theist placebo is to avoid such digging in case it uncovers something unpleasant.

and I suspect if he busies himself with life and starts to stop grieving then all those forces that are pushing him to search for more will cease all together and he'll go back to his usual hedonistic meaningless life!

I'm surprised you even converse with those you consider to have a "hedonistic, meaningless life"! That aside, does he consider his life in those terms? You say 'colleague', so I assume he also is a doctor of some sort; can the life of anyone who heals the sick be considered meaningless?

 

[جوري]

I think Pygoscelis touches on this in the previous post. What makes you think that the majority of muslims and Christians 'dig deeper' than what they absorb as part of their culture and elementary education? Obviously people of whatever religion who visit forums such as this are unlikely to be typical in that regard. The atheist, though, would argue that the whole point of the theist placebo is to avoid such digging in case it uncovers something unpleasant.

In the Quran it states, that very few are people of knowledge.. still we must all strive to make an effort.. the rest perhaps are run of the mill but it doesn't change the fact that they believe in the faith they profess. probably belief without very deep knowledge..atheism is just a comfortable non-thought.. when I wasn't a practicing Muslim.. I just lived with no questions and didn't give it much thought.. when I was struck by misfortunes it forced me to take another look.. and I think we're all born with that desire to contemplate and understand the meaning of our existence and strikes us all at one point or another during our life-- I feel that it is a sad thing indeed when one goes down that path and comes up empty!..

I am not sure what could be more unpleasant than burying a family member and believing that it is the end of the road.. It is even more difficult for a person like me to console a person like that, for surely beyond wrapping yourself in the loving memories what else is there to say? It has to be a superficial consolation unfortunately!

I'm surprised you even converse with those you consider to have a "hedonistic, meaningless life"! That aside, does he consider his life in those terms? You say 'colleague', so I assume he also is a doctor of some sort; can the life of anyone who heals the sick be considered meaningless

He is a colleague from under-grad..in fact we haven't spoken since 2004, he does something in business or accounting not medicine and I indeed viewed and still view his life as meaningless not just in terms of his atheism but the apathetic outlook on life in general.. it doesn't detract from the fact that he is a kind decent human being.. I don't know how he views his own life all things considered.. I wish he'd find something worth while like at least get married and have a family, because as far as this life is concerned what else is there? No here and now no afterlife .. what meaning is there in simply making money and touching base with someone after 7 years?

also why would I not converse with people whose life I consider meaningless? People in real life whose path we cross aren't usually the trolling parasites one encounters on the forum.. how can you not feel for people who have crossed your path in a significant way?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I don't know about pews or synagogues, but I have to ask you something:

why would there be far more agnostics and atheists in mosques than the true muslims ever imagine?

Because for me, it is almost unthinkable that there's agnostics and athiests performing ibada in mosques,

</p>
As you are genuine in your faith, I'm sure that it is unthinkable for you to behave in such away. So, when you transfer your actions to those of others around you, you project that same thoughts that you have on to them. However, you need to ask yourself if that is a fair projection?

Using the English dictionary to define ibada (as you have used it to define things in Christianity), ibada means more than just worship, it means "'Service' to God through worship by means of the five pillars of Islam."

Now, how many people kneeling next to you during Friday prayers are truly practicing all that is contained in ibada?

Is it not reported, and have you not seen for yourself, the mosques swelling once a year with worshippers that worship only at Ramadan. Are there not people who call themselves Muslims, who you may not question whether or not they are in fact followers of Islam because you know it to be a matter of the heart that only Allah knows, but based on observerable practices alone, it would be hard to make a case in court that would convict them of being a follower of Islam.

Every religion has people that are at best nominal in their practice of that faith. Islam is not excepted from that fact. Some are probably sincere in their desire to follow Islam and simply struggle to be obedient but they are trying; and some no doubt deign to follow Islam because they were raised within an Islamic family or Islamic culture and this is what they know, but their heart isn't really in it; others still behave as an obedient Muslim when in the public-eye, but when in private or able to be anonymous are as hedonistic as any pagan. Only Allah would know who they are and the difference between each one, but there is a difference.

 

[Ramadhan]

I believe that the number one reason would be circumstances of birth; being born into a muslim family and commmunity. An atheist or agnostic may grow up with Muslim parents and siblings (who they assume are Muslim but may actually be in the same condition you are) and pretend to believe for the social harmony.

This is not what you said.

You said:
And I believe that the pews and mosques and synagogues have far far more atheists and agnostics in them than the true christians, muslims and jews would ever imagine.

I can still accept if you say that there are closeted atheists pretending to be muslims, but you actually said that atheists actually going to mosques to pretend to be muslims.

If you are a muslim, and then become atheists or agnostics, and unless you publicly declare to everyone that you are now non-muslim, people still would not suspect that you are a non-muslim even if you don't go to the mosques.
Do you know that muslims are not obligated to go to mosques?
We are encouraged to perform shalah subh and isya' in congregrations in mosques, but most muslims (at least here in Indonesia in the largest muslim country on earth) simply offer their daily 5-times shalah at their own homes or offices, with the exception of Jum'ah prayer. And even then, no one would know whether you go to the mosques or not because there are literary millions of mosques and you can go to any of them.

Do you know how hard it is to go to mosques day in day out consistently?
I live near several mosques, and yet I am ashamed to admit that I only offer 3 out of 5 daily shalah in mosque. And only people in the mosques where I am praying know that I go to the mosques, and most of them are strangers. There is no (worldly) benefits, no financial, social, familial, career rewards for me for going to the mosques.

For many atheists and agnostics coming out as a non-believer simply isn't worth the price one risks paying, socially, politically, and financially. Unlike .... blah blah .. blah..

Puhleese. Save your theory for yourself.

I have a friend who is an apostate. Sher was a muslim (albeit in a name only), and because she fell in love with a catholic guy, she converted for a marriage with the guy.
She still has a job as a lecturer in some university.

The rest of your post is just your own made up theory that may apply in one or two cases, but certainly is not a general situation.

I was an agnostic at one time. I even displayed it at my friendster page (remember friendster, orior to facebook?) My family did not disown me or anything remotely to that. Instead they prayed for me, and they tried ways so I realized what's the truth and what's illusions.

I have colleagues who are muslims but never prayed. yes, not just not going to mosques, but actually not praying. Nothing happened to them. and some even did not fast during ramadan.
They believe in Islam but they are just too lazy to perform shalah (I did not make this up, they said it themselves, and there is no reason for them to lie).

So you claiming that there are a lot more atheists in mosques than we think has no basis.

It would be like me saying, oh there are closeted muslims in scandinavia, who pretend they are agnostics or atheists because coming out as a muslim simply isn't worth the price one risks paying, socially, politically, and financially.

 

[Ramadhan]

As you are genuine in your faith, I'm sure that it is unthinkable for you to behave in such away. So, when you transfer your actions to those of others around you, you project that same thoughts that you have on to them. However, you need to ask yourself if that is a fair projection? Using the English dictionary to define ibada (as you have used it to define things in Christianity), ibada means more than just worship, it means "'Service' to God through worship by means of the five pillars of Islam." Now, how many people kneeling next to you during Friday prayers are truly practicing all that is contained in ibada? Is it not reported, and have you not seen for yourself, the mosques swelling once a year with worshippers that worship only at Ramadan. Are there not people who call themselves Muslims, who you may not question whether or not they are in fact followers of Islam because you know it to be a matter of the heart that only Allah knows, but based on observerable practices alone, it would be hard to make a case in court that would convict them of being a follower of Islam. Every religion has people that are at best nominal in their practice of that faith. Islam is not excepted from that fact. Some are probably sincere in their desire to follow Islam and simply struggle to be obedient but they are trying; and some no doubt deign to follow Islam because they were raised within an Islamic family or Islamic culture and this is what they know, but their heart isn't really in it; others still behave as an obedient Muslim when in the public-eye, but when in private or able to be anonymous are as hedonistic as any pagan. Only Allah would know who they are and the difference between each one, but there is a difference.

GS, it is nice that you write at great length about what ibada is and what is not, but regretfully this is not about sincerity of actions in ibada.
Lets go back on topic.
Do you have that many mosques and muslims in your area that you can draw conclusion that atheists and agnostics ACTUALLY going to all troubles to perform ibada in the mosques?

 

[Grace Seeker]

GS, it is nice that you write at great length about what ibada is and what is not, but regretfully this is not about sincerity of actions in ibada.
Lets go back on topic.

My understanding of the topic that you were discussing with Pygoscelis and to which I responded was whether or not there were people who on the surface appeared to be practioners of a religion (i.e. pew sitters) but who were in fact at heart agnostics or even atheists. You challenged him that such might be true in churches and synagogues, but not in mosques. I believe that my post speaks directly to that topic.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I can still accept if you say that there are closeted atheists pretending to be muslims, but you actually said that atheists actually going to mosques to pretend to be muslims.

...

Puhleese. Save your theory for yourself.

It is not my theory. It is fact. I personally know atheists who pretend to be muslims and who are afraid of coming out of the closet. They go out of their way to keep up appearances. They specifically go to mosque to keep up appearances with their friends and family. If you need to believe that I am lying and they don't exist to maintain your denial that is your choice, but I am telling you what they have told me.

Everybody has different circumstances. I do not claim that all apostates from Islam are treated badly or put their family and social standing at risk, but some DO. And more fear they would, even if that fear is unfounded. The fear itself keeps them from coming out. And the consequences need not even be so dire, as I said in my previous post, because to some atheists it really isn't much of a price to pay to pretend to be religious.

I did it myself to avoid friction between my mother and my highly religious grandmother. I'm not sure if my grandmother had known I'm an atheist it would have caused a huge problem, but I suspected it would and so I kept in the closet about my atheism as a child (until my grandmother passed away).

So you claiming that there are a lot more atheists in mosques than we think has no basis.

Actually your post right here proves the point handily. You stated above that there are zero atheists in mosques pretending to be muslims. I know that not to be true. Therefore, there are more atheists in mosques than you think.

It would be like me saying, oh there are closeted muslims in scandinavia, who pretend they are agnostics or atheists because coming out as a muslim simply isn't worth the price one risks paying, socially, politically, and financially.

That may actually be true. But I'm guessing less so, since people seem to take pride in being muslim and it seems to be something people don't want to hide from the world. You would have to at least take the Shahada, wouldn't you? The price you pay as a muslim in hiding your belief in Islam is far greater than the price some atheists/agnostics pay in hiding their agnosticism/atheism. Some agnostics and atheists truly do not care if people think they are something else. There is no blasphemy in atheism.

 

[Ramadhan]

My understanding of the topic that you were discussing with Pygoscelis and to which I responded was whether or not there were people who on the surface appeared to be practioners of a religion (i.e. pew sitters) but who were in fact at heart agnostics or even atheists.

It's fine if that's your experience with church-goers, but do not project your church experience to mosque-goers.

You challenged him that such might be true in churches and synagogues, but not in mosques. I believe that my post speaks directly to that topic.

I told pygo that I didn't contend with his idea of people who go to churches and synagogues, but I only focused on those who go to mosques, because I don't know whats going on churches and synagogues, and I know exactly daily normal situations in mosques as I go 3 times a day to pray.

So again, since it seems your idea of whats going on about muslims in the mosques seem different from mine, let me ask you again:

Do you have that many mosques and muslims in your area that you can draw conclusion that atheists and agnostics ACTUALLY going to all troubles to perform ibada in the mosques?

 

[Ramadhan]

It is not my theory. It is fact. I personally know atheists who pretend to be muslims and who are afraid of coming out of the closet

As I said, i do not doubt there are athiests who pretend to be muslims whatever their motives. I take issue with "atheists who go to mosques to pretend to be muslims", because as I said, you do not need to go to the mosques to pretend to be muslim.

They specifically go to mosque to keep up appearances with their friends and family

Something needs to be cleared up here. I have noticed that your definition of "go to mosque" might be different than mine, or any other average muslims for that matter.
What do you mean by "go to mosque"?

Actually your post right here proves the point handily. You stated above that there are zero atheists in mosques pretending to be muslims. I know that not to be true. Therefore, there are more atheists in mosques than you think.

Oh, so you have conducted a study to count how many atheists actually go to mosque?
Please share.

That may actually be true. But I'm guessing less so, since people seem to take pride in being muslim and it seems to be something people don't want to hide from the world. You would have to at least take the Shahada, wouldn't you? The price you pay as a muslim in hiding your belief in Islam is far greater than the price some atheists/agnostics pay in hiding their agnosticism/atheism. Some agnostics and atheists truly do not care if people think they are something else. There is no blasphemy in atheism.

How do you know that?
In many european countries, those who do not share liberal values are often ostracised and cannot get a job in government or public position because they have to conform to those atheistic values, and hence many decide to hide their own true beliefs.

Hey, it's so easy to make theory, right?
The harder part is to prove them.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Oh, so you have conducted a study to count how many atheists actually go to mosque?
Please share.

Don't need to. You have stated there are none. I know some. Therefore there are more than you think. If you wish to shift the goalposts now, you may do so.

 

[Ramadhan]

Don't need to. You have stated there are none. I know some. Therefore there are more than you think. If you wish to shift the goalposts now, you may do so.

I see that you failed to addressed many of my previous points.

 

[Godel escher]

Worried? Haha!

Ok. Try to picture this:
- At the bottom of things, it's probably all just energy.

- The elements our bodies consist of were cooked up either during the big bang some 14 billion years ago or in a supernova (our sun isn't hot enough for the most of them).

- Natural laws have a self-organizing, undirected characteristic to them (mathematical example: the mandelbrot set).

- If we direct Hubble at a small, apparently empty piece of sky for a couple of hours, billions of galaxies suddenly become visible, and the light of some of these galaxies was sent on its way up to some 14 billions of years ago, meaning that the source of this light is nowhere near anymore where it seems to be to us.

- We live on a small, not-so stable planet circling around a sun (try to find a realistically sized illustration) that will eventually blow up and consume our earth when it dies, but before that the Andromeda galaxy will collide with our milky way, but we're more than likely to kill ourselves long before any of that is going to take place.

- The atmosphere on the planet that actually allows for life is, in comparison, thinner than a layer paint on a pool ball .

- There are so many stars in the universe that the existence of some form of extraterrestrial life is basically a mathematical certainty. But at the same time, the distances between the stars is a barrier so vast that we basically can't even imagine a civilization advanced enough to overcome it... and if there were such a civilization: 1) finding us would be so improbable in that vastness that it can be assumed never to happen. 2) if they were to find us, consider this:
- The genome of our closest relatives, the chimps, matches ours by 99%. Now visualize the difference in culture and capability to think that 1% causes. NOW imagine the difference in culture and capability of a species 1% MORE evolved than us... See where I'm getting at? When's the last time we went looking for an ant with the intention to have a meaningful conversation?

- Dark matter and dark energy make up for about 80% or more of everything there is in the universe, but nobody has the slightest grasp on what these things are.

and so on, and so on, and so on. If that doesn't physically knock you off your feet, you're still in denial about it all.

Trying to paint a picture of the "reality" that surrounds us basically fries our brain. If we are humble enough to realize that we basically don't have a fraction of an inch of a chance to understand any of it, any speculation about an underlying principle of it all looses its emotional appeal. It's ridiculous!


And if on top of that, we realize that the odds of us existing are so absolutely ridiculously tiny considering the facts offered by the immense mixture of incredible knowledge we have amassed so far, then we can be simply grateful and experience a feeling of elevation whenever you wait for the bus and consider it all.
Looking at the sky and visualizing what we'd see if there was no atmosphere is enough for me to feel what others so desperately seek: The feeling some would call purpose (but it's not purpose, not a concept at all, it's just the feeling).

With that in mind, why would a "afterlife" or the absence thereof, even matter to you? We're staring at something so incredibly miraculous, we're experiencing something so vastly unlikely and we're free to explore it all in any way we wish with our body and mind that we're basically a lottery winner. What form would exchange this life for a winning lottery ticket of any kind?
Think of all the people that could've ever been born but weren't. We get to live. And we get to live in the most comfortable times of mindblowing progress and knowledge that ever were as far as we're aware. Why would then I be worried? Sounds absolutely ridiculous!

I listen to some Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks. I give myself a healthy dose of Lawrence Krauss.I have watched "The secret life of chaos" and "Hubble Deep Field: The most important image ever taken", learning about fusion and how the elements are formed. And so forth. At some point, you'll simply just surrender... and smile. It's about the process and enjoying it. Clueless speculation about the nature of it all or worrying about what comes after just gives the ride a bitter aftertaste.

At the end, I don't need religion to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, 'cause if I have a soul that exists, something called science has already saved it.

 

[Godel escher]

How does one edit a post?? Seems like I can't edit my post at all.

 

[Trumble]

How does one edit a post?? Seems like I can't edit my post at all.

You need fifty posts before you can.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Worried? Haha!

Ok. Try to picture this:
- At the bottom of things, it's probably all just energy.

- The elements our bodies consist of were cooked up either during the big bang some 14 billion years ago or in a supernova (our sun isn't hot enough for the most of them).

- Natural laws have a self-organizing, undirected characteristic to them (mathematical example: the mandelbrot set).

- If we direct Hubble at a small, apparently empty piece of sky for a couple of hours, billions of galaxies suddenly become visible, and the light of some of these galaxies was sent on its way up to some 14 billions of years ago, meaning that the source of this light is nowhere near anymore where it seems to be to us.

- We live on a small, not-so stable planet circling around a sun (try to find a realistically sized illustration) that will eventually blow up and consume our earth when it dies, but before that the Andromeda galaxy will collide with our milky way, but we're more than likely to kill ourselves long before any of that is going to take place.

- The atmosphere on the planet that actually allows for life is, in comparison, thinner than a layer paint on a pool ball .

- There are so many stars in the universe that the existence of some form of extraterrestrial life is basically a mathematical certainty. But at the same time, the distances between the stars is a barrier so vast that we basically can't even imagine a civilization advanced enough to overcome it... and if there were such a civilization: 1) finding us would be so improbable in that vastness that it can be assumed never to happen. 2) if they were to find us, consider this:
- The genome of our closest relatives, the chimps, matches ours by 99%. Now visualize the difference in culture and capability to think that 1% causes. NOW imagine the difference in culture and capability of a species 1% MORE evolved than us... See where I'm getting at? When's the last time we went looking for an ant with the intention to have a meaningful conversation?

- Dark matter and dark energy make up for about 80% or more of everything there is in the universe, but nobody has the slightest grasp on what these things are.

and so on, and so on, and so on. If that doesn't physically knock you off your feet, you're still in denial about it all.

Trying to paint a picture of the "reality" that surrounds us basically fries our brain. If we are humble enough to realize that we basically don't have a fraction of an inch of a chance to understand any of it, any speculation about an underlying principle of it all looses its emotional appeal. It's ridiculous!


And if on top of that, we realize that the odds of us existing are so absolutely ridiculously tiny considering the facts offered by the immense mixture of incredible knowledge we have amassed so far, then we can be simply grateful and experience a feeling of elevation whenever you wait for the bus and consider it all.
Looking at the sky and visualizing what we'd see if there was no atmosphere is enough for me to feel what others so desperately seek: The feeling some would call purpose (but it's not purpose, not a concept at all, it's just the feeling).

With that in mind, why would a "afterlife" or the absence thereof, even matter to you? We're staring at something so incredibly miraculous, we're experiencing something so vastly unlikely and we're free to explore it all in any way we wish with our body and mind that we're basically a lottery winner. What form would exchange this life for a winning lottery ticket of any kind?
Think of all the people that could've ever been born but weren't. We get to live. And we get to live in the most comfortable times of mindblowing progress and knowledge that ever were as far as we're aware. Why would then I be worried? Sounds absolutely ridiculous!

I listen to some Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks. I give myself a healthy dose of Lawrence Krauss.I have watched "The secret life of chaos" and "Hubble Deep Field: The most important image ever taken", learning about fusion and how the elements are formed. And so forth. At some point, you'll simply just surrender... and smile. It's about the process and enjoying it. Clueless speculation about the nature of it all or worrying about what comes after just gives the ride a bitter aftertaste.

At the end, I don't need religion to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, 'cause if I have a soul that exists, something called science has already saved it.

All this emotional talk will have no effect on skeptic hardliners like myself and many others here. We have already contemplated and extensively studied about what you posted and then much much more than that.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Psygo

An atheist or agnostic may grow up with Muslim parents and siblings (who they assume are Muslim but may actually be in the same condition you are) and pretend to believe for the social harmony.

scary if it does happen in some family where each member is an atheist yet puts up a show of being a Muslim out of fear of other members of family.