Hey Agnostics & Atheists: Do you ever worry?

[ranma1/2]

we need an Ausi and someone on in Africa and Southamerica for good cover. I dont think we need to bother with Antartica at the moment though.

 

[barney]

No. we need to congregate in Hell of course.

You guys get over to Yorkshire ASAP! If you could see Leeds , then you shall know Hell.

Ranma, your taking the 2nd hell, Pygo Cover the 4th, i'll handle the 6th.






By the way, if anyone thinks we are going off thread, simply look at the title again, and you'll getan idea of how much we worry by our posts!

 

[ZarathustraDK]

we need an Ausi and someone on in Africa and Southamerica for good cover. I dont think we need to bother with Antartica at the moment though.

For some odd reason I thought about what muslims would do if they found themselves in the antarctic in january during ramadan.

'shakes head'

Gotta sleep, nighty :uhwhat

 

[i_m_tipu]

its ok, i worry for them

hahaha.. don't waste ur energy..

 

[Azy]

hahaha.. don't waste ur energy..

too right, why waste your energy on a bunch of kafirs

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I don't think it is fair to make a comparison to "what you weren't asked to do".
Does not the Qur'an contains instructions to be fair and judicious, benevolent and kind, and generally be a good person in all aspects of your life?

sorry, i should have eloborated...as i said, it was just for arguments sake

If those things were not present, I don't think many people would want to follow a god who based his decision solely on how often you prayed and ignored how you treated your fellow man.

as i said, for arguments sake...
peace

If there is indeed a judgment day and a just God, I just can't imagine that he would judge me based on anything but my actions towards others.

why, what makes you say that?...i mean the one who created you, gave you all these favours, etc, im not sure what the big deal is, if you are asked to worhip him :?
Peace...

 

[i_m_tipu]

too right, why waste your energy on a bunch of kafirs

i don't get it. This is a Islamic Forum. And u telling me i m here with a bunch of kafirs. Wrong understanding here also..
I told that bro not worry for ppl like u.
My purpose is to tell the truth. As Allah order me to do so.
It does not affect me atall whether u reject it or make fun of it.

 

[Skavau]

Do you ever worry that when you die you'll figure out that some religion is true, and that you needed to have believed in it to go to heaven?

No. I am glad I do not believe in a religion or a religious interpretation that chooses who goes to heaven not based on acts, or decency but on belief. I am glad I do not believe in a religion or religious interpretation that in a sense, relies upon or exists in the doctrine the threat of cosmic torture for the 'crime' of disbelief. I would find it morally reprehensible that good people would be sent to hell for disbelief.

Whatever power such a being shall have over me, there is one thing
which he shall not do: he shall not compel me to worship him. I will
call no being good, who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet
to my fellow-creatures; and if such a being can sentence me to hell
for not calling him so, then to hell I will go. - John Stuart Mill

Athiests and Agnostics seem to verify that they have no good indeed. But the disapointing part for them is that there is a god, Allah(SWT).

That of course, is up for debate.

He is gracious and merciful.

Equally, amongst many circles - that is up for debate.

 

[Amadeus85]

I wanted to ask something the atheists. They think that religious symbols in public places should be banned because these symbols insult atheists.So I ask, should modern countries ban public patriotic manifestations, because not all citizens are patriots in this country and they feel insulted?

 

[Gator]

My personal opinion, as an atheist, is that public religions symbols should not be banned and I don't view them as an insult. They are part of a tradition of a community.

thanks.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I'm with Gator, so long as all of those symbols are allowed and some are not given government affiliation or special treatment. I consider it fine for people to have jesus fish or hajib or cross necklaces or even billboards advertising their religions so long as none of it is publicly funded or affiliated.

What I don't approve of is things like putting "In God We Trust" on the money or having the Star of David as the national flag or putting "One nation, under god" in a pledge of allegiance. Those make me feel unwelcome and less than equal in the country.

In relation to your question, patriotism is love of one's country, and it'd make little sense to say the government shouldn't endorse or be affiliated with love of its country. That said though, we SHOULD be on guard against authoritarianism and nationalism. Saying "I'm proud to be an american" is one thing. Saying "Love it or leave it! USA #1! We are superior!" or my personal favourites "We are the only nation on earth with X" or "This is only possible in america" (which is hardly ever true) is another.

 

[جوري]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنفُسَكُمْ لاَ يَضُرُّكُم مَّن ضَلَّ إِذَا اهْتَدَيْتُمْ إِلَى اللّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ {105}​

[5:105] O you who have attained to faith! It is [but] for your own selves that you are responsible: those who go astray can do you no harm if you [yourselves] are on the right path. Unto God you all must return: and then He will make you [truly] understand all that you were,doing [in life].


I have always felt this verse ample to not want to get into perverse discourse with non-muslims...
People will always want to justify themselves how wonderful and great they, with this amazing sense of worth and entitlement... you'll also find in suret al'moemnoon how their dues are given them right away

نُسَارِعُ لَهُمْ فِي الْخَيْرَاتِ بَل لَّا يَشْعُرُونَ {56}​

[Pickthal 23:56] We hasten unto them with good things? Nay, but they perceive not.

and with this they will be owed nothing on the day of recompense ... Not that they are owed at all anyway.. just to have a chance at life i itself s a magnificent gift all its own..

Personally OP.. I would worry about my own self.. no sense for others to spend what little time they have on earth in wonderment, once they have made up their own mind about their journeying.. conversations will only derange into their wayward understanding of Justice, Allah swt, the universe they inhabit, and it isn't worth it!

Allah SWT is the best judge, most knowledgable and kind.. thus, you must concede in your heart, that folks whether overt or covert with their actions, intentions and/or deeds, they will get their divine justice..

 

[Amadeus85]

I'm with Gator, so long as all of those symbols are allowed and some are not given government affiliation or special treatment. I consider it fine for people to have jesus fish or hajib or cross necklaces or even billboards advertising their religions so long as none of it is publicly funded or affiliated.

I was talking rather about things like Ten Commandments table in court or other public ofices or a cross hanging in post office.

What I don't approve of is things like putting "In God We Trust" on the money or having the Star of David as the national flag or putting "One nation, under god" in a pledge of allegiance. Those make me feel unwelcome and less than equal in the country.

What about nationals flags of many european countries, like England, Greece or Sweden where crosses are placed. Should they be changed in your opinion?

 

[Pygoscelis]

I was talking rather about things like Ten Commandments table in court or other public ofices or a cross hanging in post office.

These I object to. It shows a special affiliation between the state and one particular religion.

What about nationals flags of many european countries, like England, Greece or Sweden where crosses are placed. Should they be changed in your opinion?

Ideally yes. Will it happen or is it really worth the effort, not really. They've been around so long that people don't really pay attention to them or see them as religious symbols anymore. I'd feel different about a cross being introduced today on say the Canadian flag.

 

[Amadeus85]

These I object to. It shows a special affiliation between the state and one particular religion.

You are atheist so you dont believe in Ten Commandments and the Cross so why it bothers you? For you it should be just pieces of wood/metal. Just like chair or a table.
Besides dont you think that in West there was a special affiliation between state and particular religion?(no,no buddhism).I mean, I dont know in details about Canada, but countries in western Europe has 1000 year old christian tradition and about 50 years old secular tradition. So why that last one should be more important?

 

[Keltoi]

You are atheist so you dont believe in Ten Commandments and the Cross so why it bothers you? For you it should be just pieces of wood/metal. Just like chair or a table.
Besides dont you think that in West there was a special affiliation between state and particular religion?(no,no buddhism).I mean, I dont know in details about Canada, but countries in western Europe has 1000 year old christian tradition and about 50 years old secular tradition. So why that last one should be more important?

That is actually a good point. The answer of course lies in the fact that the basis of secular government is freedom of religion. The concept that the government will not endorse a particular faith and promote it. Of course most people understand that the culture of Europe(at one time) and the culture of the U.S. is founded on the Christian tradition.

Most of the history, holidays, historical events, etc are all related to Christianity in one way or another. The question is whether protecting the sensibilities of the athiest minority should supercede the freedom of people to express their religious beliefs. The design of the flag, the motto on currency, etc are all expressions of the religious makeup of the nation.

 

[Pygoscelis]

You are atheist so you dont believe in Ten Commandments and the Cross so why it bothers you? For you it should be just pieces of wood/metal. Just like chair or a table.

The symbology has meaning. It represents a religion that has been hostile towards non-believers for centuries, millenia even. And I do not want it or any other religion pushing its way into government and attempting to control the people or make one group of people feel more accepted or proper than another. You are correct that Christianity ruled europe for a long while (and inspired some truly horrific periods in history), but we've gotten beyond that now. And I like to think that we've learned enough from the past to realize that theocracy is a bad idea.

Whatever America and Europe once were, they are no longer "Christian Nations" (well aside from the vatican). They are multicultural societies, including many religions and ahteists too. I like this trend away from religious tribalism. Its one of my favourite things about living where I do.

To have freedom of religion you require freedom from the other guy's religion. It is fine to express your religion, wear religious garb, even put up a billboard declaring your love for Jesus - as a private citizen. Just don't try to push it on the rest of us through sucessive degrees of theocracy.

 

[barney]

I havn't heard any atheists complain about wearing crosses, having the cresent moon or the star of david visable. (Well actually, yeah, the star of david draws a lot of complaints, because of the neo-con-zionist led genocide-holocust)

It makes no difference to me having the symbols scattered about. Religion (christianity) needs to advertise to remain viable, hence all the billboards advertising "come and worship jesus here" outside the churchs.

You would never see that outside a mosque. Muslims simply know that they have to worship Allah, not doing so is unthinkable as an option.

 

[جوري]

a creascent moon really means nothing to Muslims.. it symbolizes nothing.. It is an ottoman symbol, personally I think it does more harm than good with morons out there thinking we worship a moon God..


cheers

 

[ranma1/2]

I wanted to ask something the atheists. They think that religious symbols in public places should be banned because these symbols insult atheists.So I ask, should modern countries ban public patriotic manifestations, because not all citizens are patriots in this country and they feel insulted?

No i think that goverment endorcements of religion are bad. Wether its buddhism (essentially an atheistic religion), scientology, wicca, or others.

I dont know of any atheists that think religious symbols insult them. (we arent vampires although some think we are demons or agents of satan.)