Hezbollah declares Open War on Israel

[The_Prince]

to be exact this was 2 days and a half before the ceasefire.

 

[MTAFFI]

Correction they call it a defeat. Once and for all, accept it.

OK no problem, Israel was defeated then, if using that term as a substitute for unable to attain their initial goals is better for you. Again I will repeat, I dont care about Israel or what happens to it, win or lose it has no effect on me.

Now do me a favor, tell me how Hezbollah won... Is it because they hung on to their two captives? Is it because they survived a short one month Israeli onslaught? If that is your logic I am afraid you are rather simple minded. You act as though their little rockets did so much to Israel, when ultimately it cost Israel very little, less than 50 civilians, very little infrastructure damage. Look at the Lebanese, what did they gain from the experience? International humanitarian support?

Haha, don’t worry I don’t need to go to “Israel” to see what they do. You mean the wide corruption they have? I suggest you open haaretz and ynet news to see their “wonderful society. Do you mean their former president who got away with his sexual harassment? How about Oulmert who most of the Israelis don’t want him but he sticks to the PM chair like glue? How about Sharon’s corrupt children and their thievery? Or Dan Halutz who sold stocks before the 2006 war?

Were we talking about politics or their higher standard of living? You go off on this tangent and all I suggested was that their daily lives werent effected as badly as you make it out to be.. Yes they have political corruption and so on, would you like to name a country that doesnt? Anyways your point is null and void since it has nothing to do with my initial point that the Israeli life carried on just as it did before the war.

You mean that society? Wow yes I should learn from those. I should learn from them the “love” they show to the Palestinians. I should learn from them their love towards Arabs.

Did I at any point as you to? Did I ever once say learn from them? I dont believe that there is anything to learn from them except it is to your benefit to have awesome firepower when you are surrounded by those who wish for your demise. But I never said learn from them did I? So stop fixing your responses to lead further discussion in a false direction

Sure I need to learn something from them.

REMEMBER YOU SAID IT NOT ME

I told you before don’t change my views. I don’t hate Jews. I’m against Zionists and Israelis because of their actions and they don’t have to be from a certain religion or race obviously.

I know my enemy

Certainly doesnt appear so

Why are you repeating questions? I answered that. I also don’t have patience to go back and look it up.

When did you answer it? if you did please copy and paste it here, as far as I have seen you just dance around that issue and bask in what little glory you can manifest from that pitiful 2006 Lebanon war. Good for you though, you can point out a victory from a group that doesnt have sustained documented numbers and who cant fight conventional war. Good for you, you can get joy out of that, personally the fact that number of lives were lost and the amount of ecological and structural damage that was caused will be passed down for the next half a century bothers me a bit. In fact, I cant see how anyone really won that playground fight, to me humanity lost again. But hey fight away, I am sure you will be on your death bed claiming the same thing, just as the many others who insisted Israel was on the brink of defeat over the past 60 years... Yet they just keep gobbling land and lives because of the inability of people like yourself to concede defeat and move on to make a better life. How incredibly sad.

So what if they have international support that means they are right? Wow, that’s nice, did you tell that to the prophet (asw) when all of Qurish were against him how about the ahsab?

Yes we should quake in our boots because of this, I’m so scared now!

Pffft!

If you are asking if I care if they have international support, I can tell you again I dont care either way, but to deny that it is a benefit to any country to be supported by the international community would be, well, stupid. It doesnt make them right in mine or your eyes, but it does allow them to continue what they have been doing for 60 years with monetary aid and without anyone really contesting their actions.

I wouldnt quake in my boots, but I would recognize the fact that it is a benefit.

 

[The_Prince]

the israelis began the litani offensive on august 11th, by the 14th they had 35 dead soldiers and several destroyed tanks.

 

[ahsan28]

just empty rhetoric based on your biased disdain for hezbollah, hezbollah were very very much capable of continuing the fight, infact had the ceasfire not come into affect the real war would have started on hezbollahs view.

the only reason hezbollah accepted the treaty was because there was huge pressure from the lebanease to stop the war, and that many were suffering so he ended the war to quell the pressure, and ease the suffering of the people.

well, your biased disdain towards Taibans can equally be seen. If nasrallah was so caring for his country, he wouldn't have initiated the baseless war by kidnapping two zionists. So therefore your reasoning behind accepting the ceasefire by Hezbollah is based on unjustifiable grounds. The fact of the matter remains that zionists were about to enter Central Lebanon and Hezbollah was in no capacity to continue the war. The only reason as being viewed is your personal opinion.

 

[ahsan28]

the only reason hezbollah accepted the treaty was because there was huge pressure from the lebanease to stop the war, and that many were suffering so he ended the war to quell the pressure, and ease the suffering of the people.

If that was the case as you view it to be, then why has he declared war on Israel again or do you think a new war will minimize the suffering of poor Lebanese because Hezbollah might have received fresh stock of crude rockets from their well wishers.

 

[The_Prince]

well, your biased disdain towards Taibans can equally be seen. If nasrallah was so caring for his country, he wouldn't have initiated the baseless war by kidnapping two zionists. So therefore your reasoning behind accepting the ceasefire by Hezbollah is based on unjustifiable grounds. The fact of the matter remains that zionists were about to enter Central Lebanon and Hezbollah was in no capacity to continue the war. The only reason as being viewed is your personal opinion.

what rubbish, my biased disdain for taliban?

where did i say anything wrong? are they not killing aid workers and drivers? are they not killing hundreds of afghani civillians through their bomb attacks? where is anything wrong or biased? dont make things up on me when you have lost the argument, EVEN YOU ADMITED THEY DO IT AND SAID ITS WRONG, now you call me bias? hillarious buddy, really.

as for nasrallah, he admited he didnt know it would happen, and APOLOGIZED FOR IT, so that ends that there, you can keep repeating it because you have nothing, and when you get refuted you just repeat yourself. he said hes sorry, and wouldnt have done it if he knew, what more you want? he has given money and help to ppl who lost homes etc etc.

and again you show no proof hezbollah couldnt continue the war, i showed stats from the last days of the war showing hezbollah was still fully functional, and again you attack straw man, hezbollah never said israel cant enter lebanon, hezbollah said they can, but when they do hezbollah will cause havoc and make sure they suffer until they pull out, which is what happened.

so its you with the biased propaganda since you provide no evidence, just empty words.

you have obviously lost this argument, bringing no proof, making things up on me, while the proof and stats and actual truth refute you.

but you made a claim, show me where im biased against the taliban, this will be funny as i said you even admited they do the wrong things, so you made a false claim on me, which sums it all up, you lost this argument just as israel lost the war.

 

[The_Prince]

ahsan stats from the last days of the war show israel losing more soldiers, more tanks, and hezbollah firing more rockets than at the beggining of the war.

thats enough to refute you and your empty nonsense, go on keep saying hezbollah had no capacity to fight, yet the stats come back and crush that false myth you propagate.

 

[The_Prince]

let me make a whole summary to just refute everything you keep saying ahsan:

ahsan: israel was moving into lebanon

answer: hezbollah never said they could stop israel from moving, hence ahsan is guilty of straw man and making things up, rather hezbollah's tactics is for israel to move into lebanon, and then wage a full guerilla war on them, causing massive havoc, death, and carnage forcing the israelis to pull out such as in 2000. it is like a web, hezbollah wants israel in this web, and stuck, and then attack from there. so israel moving inside lebanon means nothing.

ahsan: hezbollah accepted ceasfire because they had no capacity to fight on

answer: false claim based on no facts, statistics from the end of the war, the last days shows hezbollah firing more rockets than they did at the start of war, it shows israeli soldiers dying at higher rate than the start, shows israeli weaponry being destroyed at a faster rate. this point also ties in with point one, that hezbollah wants israel to push into lebanon so they can inflict higher damage and death upon the israelis, which SUPRISE SUPRISE is exactly what we saw when israel conducted the push.

ahsan: why did hezbollah make such a war and let lebanease people suffer?!

answer: hezbollah miscalculated israel's response, and their very leader nasrallah admited it, and apologized, and said if he knew israel would react like they did then he would not have done it. generals have often miscalculated their enemies response, this is not the first time it has happened, nor will it be the last. hezbollah has given lots of money, and shelter to those civillians who suffered.

ahsan: the taliban are good fighters because they dont accept ceasefire

answer: the taliban have killed thousands of innocent afghani civillians because of bomb attacks and suicide bombings, the very same attacks that leaves dozens of afghani dead and ZERO nato casualties. the taliban kill and kidnap AID WORKERS and their helpless DRIVERS as well. ahsan agrees this is wrong, but then calls me biased when he admits this is all true, hence how am i biased for reporting the truth and even ahsan agrees and says its wrong, yet ahsan shows his inconsistency by persisting that the taliban are humble good and better fighters than hezbollah!

all in all folks ahsan has nothing, just inconsistency, straw mans, and biasness. case closed.

 

[ahsan28]

what rubbish, my biased disdain for taliban?

where did i say anything wrong? are they not killing aid workers and drivers? are they not killing hundreds of afghani civillians through their bomb attacks? where is anything wrong or biased? dont make things up on me when you have lost the argument, EVEN YOU ADMITED THEY DO IT AND SAID ITS WRONG, now you call me bias? hillarious buddy, really.

as for nasrallah, he admited he didnt know it would happen, and APOLOGIZED FOR IT, so that ends that there, you can keep repeating it because you have nothing, and when you get refuted you just repeat yourself. he said hes sorry, and wouldnt have done it if he knew, what more you want? he has given money and help to ppl who lost homes etc etc.

and again you show no proof hezbollah couldnt continue the war, i showed stats from the last days of the war showing hezbollah was still fully functional, and again you attack straw man, hezbollah never said israel cant enter lebanon, hezbollah said they can, but when they do hezbollah will cause havoc and make sure they suffer until they pull out, which is what happened.

so its you with the biased propaganda since you provide no evidence, just empty words.

you have obviously lost this argument, bringing no proof, making things up on me, while the proof and stats and actual truth refute you.

but you made a claim, show me where im biased against the taliban, this will be funny as i said you even admited they do the wrong things, so you made a false claim on me, which sums it all up, you lost this argument just as israel lost the war.

My views on killings of civilians are quite clear and I have repeatedly made it clear. But that doesn't mean Talibans have surrendered before occupation forces or accepted ceasefire for the last six years. I can produce numerous reports of zionists advancing in the end and Hezbollah not in a position to stop the onslaught. The fear of defeat actually pressurized nasrallah to accept the ceasefire, not the suffering of the people, as if he was a kid, not knowing the consequences of a war.

The claim was not false, you were trying to project Talibans as if they were involved in civilian killing only, ignoring the other facts, which lead to the conclusion that occupation forces are not so viable as they were in the initial years of Afghanistan war, due to continued resistance by the Talibans spaced over six long years, not just 33 days.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

What happened to the Ummah? why do the muslim nations not come together and rectify this problem?

 

[ahsan28]

ahsan: why did hezbollah make such a war and let lebanease people suffer?!

answer: hezbollah miscalculated israel's response, and their very leader nasrallah admited it, and apologized, and said if he knew israel would react like they did then he would not have done it.

Thanks.

 

[muslima1]

What happened to the Ummah? why do the muslim nations not come together and rectify this problem?

I have no idea but uniting would solve alot of problem that arise in the ummah.

 

[The_Prince]

My views on killings of civilians are quite clear and I have repeatedly made it clear. But that doesn't mean Talibans have surrendered before occupation forces or accepted ceasefire for the last six years. I can produce numerous reports of zionists advancing in the end and Hezbollah not in a position to stop the onslaught. The fear of defeat actually pressurized nasrallah to accept the ceasefire, not the suffering of the people, as if he was a kid, not knowing the consequences of a war.

The claim was not false, you were trying to project Talibans as if they were involved in civilian killing only, ignoring the other facts, which lead to the conclusion that occupation forces are not so viable as they were in the initial years of Afghanistan war, due to continued resistance by the Talibans spaced over six long years, not just 33 days.

lol your ending is so funny you know?

oh yes the taliban kill thousands of muslims through bombs, but no no you sami you dont mention the other parts where they kill a few dozen nato soldiers!!!!!!!!! are you serious? PLZ DONT TELL ME YOUR SERIOUS BY THIS??????

what good is it to fight the nato for supposedly oppressing your people when your killing the very same ppl, killing more of them than nato????

again and again you bring no proof to back your claim on hezbollah not being able to fight, i dont blame you since you have no proof and the stats refute you, but you can keep repeating yourself, it doesnt bother me because you and i know your wrong, yes you even know you have no proof.

and you repeat yourself again saying israel is moving in and hezbollah couldnt stop it, LOL so funny i specifically adressed that before, your just repeating yourself even when you have already been refuted.

now go on, repeat the same things you did again.

 

[The_Prince]

Thanks.

if your saying thanks to act like you won something then you didnt, because at least hezbollah can apologize for wrongs, unlike the taliban who say ohhhhhh we killed a few nato so its okay!

if your not being sarcastic then the argument refutes half of what you say, so you are very welcome.

 

[Keltoi]

I realize that groups like Hezbollah and the Taliban believe it is a major victory when they manage to kill either a U.S., NATO, or Israeli soldier...but that just shows the long-term pointlessness of that kind of mentality. They cannot win through military means. In the case of NATO, the British, the U.S., i.e. the West, these countries are used to major conflicts with thousands upon thousands of military deaths. In context these conflicts are skirmishes at best.

In the case of Israel, in order to fully achieve their goals they would have had to occupy southern Lebanon, not something the Israeli people were too keen on doing all over again. What Israel accomplished was showing Hezbollah that they cannot kidnap Israeli soldiers in cross border incursions without a response. A response that many called "overkill".

 

[Moon*Light]

Thank you bro The_prince for answering what I can call the false propaganda circled by many and some members on this forum. They like to believe they have the truth but they even deny the truth that is in front of their eyes. They argue endlessly over answered points.

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Agree to what? I said we shall see manifestation of his statement. I am just concerned about innocent Lebanese who are caught in the middle of this dirty game called proxy war. What goes of Nasrallah? He has to appear on TV and just regret before his people as he did before. But I am sure he will not commit any mistake in future. I sincerely pray for the people of Lebanon that they don't have to suffer again because of such rhetorics turning into yet another conflict.

To see what happens ahsan, you like to argue for no reason? You keep repeating things I already answered to what avail?

Don’t worry about the Lebanese.

By the way, the only "success" Hezbollah had with firing hundreds of rockets a day was the justification it gave Israel to continue bombing rocket launching locations which were located in close proximity to apartment buildings.

Oh hilarious! Ever seen a rocket launched beside a house or in a closed area? What do think happens to the one who launched it? That is the most ridiculous excuse ever.

Besides there were no rockets launched from the southern suburbs of Beirut where 10s of buildings were destroyed.

 

[Moon*Light]

OK no problem, Israel was defeated then, if using that term as a substitute for unable to attain their initial goals is better for you. Again I will repeat, I dont care about Israel or what happens to it, win or lose it has no effect on me.

Now do me a favor, tell me how Hezbollah won... Is it because they hung on to their two captives? Is it because they survived a short one month Israeli onslaught? If that is your logic I am afraid you are rather simple minded. You act as though their little rockets did so much to Israel, when ultimately it cost Israel very little, less than 50 civilians, very little infrastructure damage. Look at the Lebanese, what did they gain from the experience? International humanitarian support?

You are the one who calls it’s a spat when military officials around the world called it a war. You call it nothing, when these same people are studying how it was possible for Hizaba’Allah to win.

Do you recall Condi Rice said something close to: This war is the birth of a new Middle East? What did she mean by that? Was that attained?

We are talking about something far more greater than a spat and two soldiers. You wish to believe it is that then go ahead and be my guest.

Those rockets cost the Israelis Merkava tanks, some helicopters, warships and many things the media didn’t put. Do you know about 80% of these rockets fell on military areas? Did anyone know what is the lost? Or did the Israelis follow the reporters and didn’t allow them to see anything?

Heck small rockets of Hamas sent an Israeli official to run for safety the other day, you are telling me that the rockets Hizba’Allah used doesn’t cause fear for the Israelis?


About what I should learn from the Israelis, I was answering you about their progress.

Certainly doesnt appear so

Whatever, I know what I believe and don’t believe, whomever would have invaded Palestine or Lebanon I would be against them.

When did you answer it? if you did please copy and paste it here, as far as I have seen you just dance around that issue and bask in what little glory you can manifest from that pitiful 2006 Lebanon war. Good for you though, you can point out a victory from a group that doesnt have sustained documented numbers and who cant fight conventional war. Good for you, you can get joy out of that, personally the fact that number of lives were lost and the amount of ecological and structural damage that was caused will be passed down for the next half a century bothers me a bit. In fact, I cant see how anyone really won that playground fight, to me humanity lost again. But hey fight away, I am sure you will be on your death bed claiming the same thing, just as the many others who insisted Israel was on the brink of defeat over the past 60 years... Yet they just keep gobbling land and lives because of the inability of people like yourself to concede defeat and move on to make a better life. How incredibly sad.

Wow, so I’m the one who has to go through 13 pages, I suggest you do it. Also you keep telling me it is a spat and I answered that also, you are the one going over the same arguments again and again.

Haha, sheesh do you have a clue about what we are talking about it seems not, Hizaba’Allah is a resistance of course they don’t fight a conventional war.

Believe as you wish, not that it matters. What matters is what is happening on the ground. We’ll see what becomes of “Israel”. The crusaders stayed a very long time and ended up leaving, so no different.

I wouldnt quake in my boots, but I would recognize the fact that it is a benefit.

That is always taken into consideration.

 

[Keltoi]

Thank you bro The_prince for answering what I can call the false propaganda circled by many and some members on this forum. They like to believe they have the truth but they even deny the truth that is in front of their eyes. They argue endlessly over answered points.

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To see what happens ahsan, you like to argue for no reason? You keep repeating things I already answered to what avail?

Don’t worry about the Lebanese.




Oh hilarious! Ever seen a rocket launched beside a house or in a closed area? What do think happens to the one who launched it? That is the most ridiculous excuse ever.

Besides there were no rockets launched from the southern suburbs of Beirut where 10s of buildings were destroyed.

How would you know? Launching rockets from beside or near some kind of structure is almost necessary, otherwise you are launching from an open position without any kind of cover...unless you have air support. The point is whether those buildings are full of people or not. Israeli pilots were locking on to heat signatures. Firing crude rockets from the back of pickup trucks leaves a very recognizable heat signature. The Israeli military has released numerous gun cam videos of pickup trucks firing rockets from beside civilian structures...before the explosion of course.

The question is whether Israel was justified in taking out those targets knowing that they were using civilians as shields.

 

[Fishman]

Oh hilarious! Ever seen a rocket launched beside a house or in a closed area? What do think happens to the one who launched it? That is the most ridiculous excuse ever.

Good point. Contary to what every action movie and violent video game says, it is dangerous to launch rockets from a closed room (its pretty bad to launch them anywhere, but never mind). The backblast will create a pressure wave that can easily kill. And there is always the possibility that the rocket might swerve off and hit a wall near you.

But then, aren't those rockets they use launched from trucks?

 

[Keltoi]

Good point. Contary to what every action movie and violent video game says, it is dangerous to launch rockets from a closed room (its pretty bad to launch them anywhere, but never mind). The backblast will create a pressure wave that can easily kill. And there is always the possibility that the rocket might swerve off and hit a wall near you.

But then, aren't those rockets they use launched from trucks?

It isn't that they are firing those rockets from "inside" a building, but in close proximity to a building. It isn't a bad strategy, because firing crude rockets from the back of trucks in an open field isn't exactly intelligent knowing the Israeli air force is targeting you. The question isn't the strategy of it, it is whether it is moral to use civilian structures to provide cover for rocket teams. Then there is the question whether it is moral to strike those targets knowing that the blast radius will probably effect those civilian structures nearby.