Hi everone, I am a Christian investigating Islam.

[YusufNoor]

Thanks YusufNoor,
1. do you claim one can enter heaven without any deeds? Is there a Quran verse for it?

nope, Allah is Maliki Yawmid Din. He decides who gets into heaven.

2. Jesus's word passed down through the early recordings, with many old manuscripts survived till today, older than Quran. The teachings are of divine nature, that is part of the reason why I became what I am today.

there are no contemporaneous witness statement's of the words of Jesus, pbuh. the earliest Gospel Mark, wasn't written until around 65-75 CE.

3. What do you mean the Quran was complete before New Testament? New Testament was completed at around 300ad, with very little changes later on.

but there were changes later on! Protestants didn't finish editing the Bible, until there were Protestant. Catholics didn't finish writing the NT, in it's original language, until the fourteenth or fifteenth century. The Qur'an was finished when the Prophet, pbuh, died.

4. To me to be a Christian means reborn from spirit (get rid of the old self and let God take control of you). They have other debates about thing of divine nature that there is no way to understand except when God show us that. But that is similar to Muslims, which have Sunnis, Shia, Sufis.

Christians still debate what it means to be a Christian. Shii'ism isn't Islam, Sufism isn't Islam, although there are some "Sufis" who do follow the Din, and very well, i might add. there is no question, Muhammad, pbuh, taught clearly what it entails to be a Muslim. Christians use books by anonymous authors, and even authors who lied about their identity. there were ecumenical councils even after the Prophet, pbuh, died, therefore, Islam and the Qur'an, despite Christianity having a 500 year head start, were completed first!


5. What do you think Christians don't follow Jesus taught? Some fake ones maybe, and some new ones doesn't do the 1/10 contribution to God. But many try out best to follow God, I am even trying to follow the Sabbath (still drive/watch movies but not any commercial activities)

Christians, the majority, don't follow jesus, pbuh, at all! they follow Paul!

6. I am sure people can recreate bible as well, I can't recite the bible but there are people who can. Some sect of Christians has more books than ours, but I am sure someone can recite those books as well. For us Christians, the command from God is Love God, Love others, and that is the Bible in 2 words.

i'm guessing there are over 10 million people today, who can recite the entire Qur'an from memory. Christians can't even decide what the Bible is!

according to the author of Mark, chapter 12:

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

repeat after me, "O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"

and, "for there is one God; and there is none other but he"

show us a Bible verse where Jesus, pbuh, says to worship a trinity.

ma salaama

 

[greenhill]

I don't create truth, I just research. One example is almost every Muslim I meet told me Bible is corrupted, that is more like creation. "The truth shall set us free", let's get to the bottom of this.

"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]......." (9:30) Sahih International

Important point above is 'imitate the saying...' which was never true.


"And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me — to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness."(5:116-117) Sahih International

Above is a quote from the Quran where Jesus will deny the main belief about the holy Trinity.

With the main issue about the status of Jesus as believed by the Christians in doubt (based on Quranic excerpts), how can we believe that salvation can be achieved by accepting Christianity's claim when the fundamental belief (Trinity) is flawed.

Peace :shade:

 

[Muhaba]

Welcome.

I am reading a book by Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips called "The Message of Christ." It has some interesting information you may want to look at. It might help you in your comparison of Islam and Christianity.

 

[dcalling]

Let alone in God's words, even in a child's writings you wouldn't find so many simple controversies. It seems that not only a couple, but many people have put their inks into the Bible.

By the way, dcalling, what do you mean by 'very little changes after 300ad'? Do you have any other gods besides the three entities who have the authority to make changes in God's words?

I am sorry, but I don't believe that you made a thorough investigation of ten years before converting to Christianity. It seems more like you just surrendered because you wanted to be saved.

I am not concerned too much about simple mistakes, those are all humans writers writing events years before, and the mistakes (although concerns me) are small, and it shows no one tried to cover up anything (no one tried to correct them).
And no one has authority to change God's words. Do you not believe that God have the ability to put part of himself into a human? I believe Jesus is sinless and is put forward by God as an example of how to live a sinless life.

And last, the 10 years of my struggle against my Christian friends (I feel sorry to insult them now) is mostly my change from atheist to believe there is a God. Picking Bible also took a long time too. Unlike most, I has a had time believe in Jesus and at times even want to just stick with Old Testament. But the more I read it, the more it seems he speak the word of God, and the matter that most of disciples died by prosecution help the case a lot. They all scattered after his death, but they were full of faith in him again after his resurrection.

 

[dcalling]

I will repeat after you, "O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord". I don't think Jesus ever said to worship trinity, I don't think the word trinity existed in the Bible. However multiple account in the Bibles says Jesus was worshiped by his disciples, and he didn't prevent them from doing so. In my (limited) understand, God put part of himself in Jesus (his only son, as Jesus is the only one created without an earthly Father) to show us what a sinless life is. And from Jesus's own word it shows, that Jesus and the Father are one, and that they are in each other.

 

[dcalling]

Also the Christians can argue all alone (Muslims do too), but the main text didn't change and everyone can study and draw their own conclusions.

 

[جوري]

However multiple account in the Bibles says Jesus was worshiped by his disciples

Have you taken the bible quiz I have posted for you?
If you can't get your biblical passages to agree on some key events and if God has many sons per bible including satan himself:
Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.—Job 1:6 (JPS)
why should anyone subscribe to your account of the trinity? At any rate it isn't the only obstacle in christianity but it is certainly the fulcrum that makes all else crumble!

best,

 

[greenhill]

God put part of himself in Jesus (his only son, as Jesus is the only one created without an earthly Father)

And Adam without earthly Parents, Eve without an earthly Mother. Does not make them in anyway more 'godly' than us. The 'ruh' which is for everybody comes from Allah.

Peace :shade:

 

[YusufNoor]

I will repeat after you, "O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord". I don't think Jesus ever said to worship trinity, I don't think the word trinity existed in the Bible. However multiple account in the Bibles says Jesus was worshiped by his disciples, and he didn't prevent them from doing so. In my (limited) understand, God put part of himself in Jesus (his only son, as Jesus is the only one created without an earthly Father) to show us what a sinless life is. And from Jesus's own word it shows, that Jesus and the Father are one, and that they are in each other.

most of the accounts that imply divinity on the part of Jesus, pbuh, are from the Gospel (allegedly) of John. this particular gospel is dated to about 95 AD. this is 2 generations after Jesus, pbuh, ascended into heaven.

laying out the Gospels in their historical order, and reading them separately,shows 4 clearly different Jesus'. you can trace an evolution of Christian theology.

why did it take 60+ years for Jesus to become God??? and if Jesus was God, as you claim, why is it that he wasn't articulate or knowledgeable enough to deliver the Christian message that eventually developed?

if Jesus and the Father are one (in any aspect), they are still 2. there is only One True God, as Jesus, himself, is reported to have said.

ma salaama

 

[Nur Student]

In my (limited) understand, God put part of himself in Jesus (his only son, as Jesus is the only one created without an earthly Father) to show us what a sinless life is.

All the prophets are without sins, not only Prophet 'Eesa or 'Isa (Jesus in Arabic -peace be upon him). They have mistakes but they don't commit sins.

And from Jesus's own word it shows, that Jesus and the Father are one, and that they are in each other.

So you are basically saying that it is one God, but has put some part of himself into the human body of Jesus. So, Jesus is a human being. Am I right?

In Islam, we believe that Allah is everywhere, but with his knowledge and power, not with His body. (Continues creation and change in the universe in an orderly, balanced, wise and beautiful fashion prove this) He doesn't have a physical body, nor a shape. He is not limited with time and space.

 

[dcalling]

Have you taken the bible quiz I have posted for you?
If you can't get your biblical passages to agree on some key events and if God has many sons per bible including satan himself:
Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.—Job 1:6
why should anyone subscribe to your account of the trinity? At any rate it isn't the only obstacle in christianity but it is certainly the fulcrum that makes all else crumble!

best,

Yes I did take the quiz, in my previous thread I did some explanation (and I got a 0 score). I have not done the research I wanted yet, I will do them.
I have read this passage before, I think it is referring all God's creations his sons, and Satan is certainly created by God as well. I think it is also the Islam belief (all things are created by God) as well, but I am not sure.

I am not asking everyone to subscribe to trinity, I only worship God, I listen to the Holy spirit but I don't worship it (it might be different than what elders in our church believes and considered heretic, but I only follow the book).

 

[dcalling]

most of the accounts that imply divinity on the part of Jesus, pbuh, are from the Gospel (allegedly) of John. this particular gospel is dated to about 95 AD. this is 2 generations after Jesus, pbuh, ascended into heaven.

laying out the Gospels in their historical order, and reading them separately,shows 4 clearly different Jesus'. you can trace an evolution of Christian theology.

why did it take 60+ years for Jesus to become God??? and if Jesus was God, as you claim, why is it that he wasn't articulate or knowledgeable enough to deliver the Christian message that eventually developed?

if Jesus and the Father are one (in any aspect), they are still 2. there is only One True God, as Jesus, himself, is reported to have said.

ma salaama

I will research on that, I did saw part where Jesus said don't call him good, non is good but God alone.

 

[جوري]

I think it is referring all God's creations his sons, and Satan is certainly created by God as well. I think it is also the Islam belief (all things are created by God) as well, but I am not sure

All things are created by God and all things are 'sons of God' are separate things completely.

I am not asking everyone to subscribe to trinity

well forgive me I was under the impression that you were per this:

I will not hide my intensions, I still think Christianity is the true religion of God, and I am here to try to convince you (if God allows), and I have prayed many times to have the God's word shine through.

 

[dcalling]

All the prophets are without sins, not only Prophet 'Eesa or 'Isa (Jesus in Arabic -peace be upon him). They have mistakes but they don't commit sins.

So you are basically saying that it is one God, but has put some part of himself into the human body of Jesus. So, Jesus is a human being. Am I right?

In Islam, we believe that Allah is everywhere, but with his knowledge and power, not with His body. (Continues creation and change in the universe in an orderly, balanced, wise and beautiful fashion prove this) He doesn't have a physical body, nor a shape. He is not limited with time and space.

Adam is a prophet (in Islam) and he sinned by disobeying God and ate what was not supposed to be eaten.
And yes that is correct, Jesus has a human body according to what I read from Bible, the explaination will be part of God is in him and he is doing all what God want him to do, so acting as God (it is like kissing the hand of a king is kissing the king, so I would think Jeus is like the hand of God, where the essense, or spirit , or power of God controller that human body).

 

[dcalling]

All things are created by God and all things are 'sons of God' are separate things completely.
==> Maybe, I don't claim to understand all things in the Bible, I am just throwing my interpretations around.

well forgive me I was under the impression that you were per this:

Don't worry, when I say Christianity, I mean the Bible, not any human interpretation of it (even if it is popular). Be it Bible, Quran or even Torah (at least that is the root of all things that I can fall back to), the mort important thing is to let God's word shine through, and follow that.

 

[Nur Student]

Adam is a prophet (in Islam) and he sinned by disobeying God and ate what was not supposed to be eaten.

He wasn't a prophet then. Why do you think there would be a need for a prophet in paradise? Besides, there are many wisdoms in his being expelled from paradise.

Peace,

 

[Muhammad]

This thread is now closed.

Please post questions in this new thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...34322274-dcallings-questions.html#post1601285

Please also focus on one or two issues at a time otherwise it becomes very confusing to follow the discussion.

We are happy to help you understand Islam if you are sincerely searching for the truth, but if you are simply here to raise anti-Islamic allegations you have read on dubious websites, then such discussions will come to a quick closure.