Hijab Ban Sharps Muslim Isolation

Just as a reminder, the hijab is not banned in France. It is only banned in state schools and for hospital staff. You can still go to private schools who do allow them.

Nevertheless, I still believe it is a law that runs contrary to what we believe in, namely that religion is a personal choice. It is completely anti-liberal. I also believe it comes awfully close to state-enforced religion, as it is also practised in Islamic states like Iran and Saudi-Arabia, where hijabs are forced onto all women.
 
Trumble,

Of course all women should wear it in an Islamic state, when you consider that the purpose is to prevent corruption in the society by preventing relationships outside of marriage, rape etc and helping people lower their gaze, as if it matters to men who are trying to lower thier gaze if the half naked women are muslim or not!

yeh, same with men who think wearing underwears only is fashionable..

you mean none right? as in no islamic states? lol

sl man :grumbling
 
I consider that as an insult and I will go out now an burn flags ! Anyway, common in some countries as soon as they feel offended or get the feeling to be insulted, no?

coz das about all they can do :offended:

When I go to school, I want to focus on my studies, and not on religious symbols, neither sit beside a person who is covered by a tent, neither hiding behind a scarf, nor wearing a big wooden cross, or whatever.

actually if hijab was worn i think you'll be able to focus more on your studies, 90% of fellas around me all they do is comment on who they're running after, who's hot n whats not. No respect for women no nothing.. as if they're objects on show for all.

That's why it is called a SCHOOL. Once I go to a church, or Mosque or Synagogue, then I can show off my religious beliefs.

what a lame religion if it's suppose to be confined to a room!

mate that mentality stinks, you think the creator of this universe with all its complexities and amazing featuers sent us a manual that's only to be applied within confinements of 4 walls?? :offended:

You speak about the freedom to wear the hijab, well , did you never ask yourself the question, how many people feel offended by that? Believe me, there are more than would admit it !

Why are they offended? Hasn't it ever occurred to christians that even the drawings they put of mary, she's wearing hijab in them... so why the double standards :? Im sure it won't be long till they draw her with a mini skirt n no hijab ( :offended: ) but that's coz you have no concept of consistency in your lives.

Look f. example a shop: When the owner of the shop doesn't like you, he can refuse you to enter. Even he will not provide you only one single reason. the fact, he dislike your face can be reason enough.

that's how the law of the jungle works... if you wanna be a denizen of the jungle, then i understand where your coming from, but civilised people are more articulate than that.

Now, in a country with a democracy, it can be the same: When most people dislike the wear of the hajib, well it will be forbidden. Like it or not, it's a fact.
It is not a minority, who will be able to reverse that, even with burning flags or silly boycotts about local products.

that doesnt answer my question, you decided to not quote this:

"^ actually that's not the point we're trying to make, we're trying to show the contradiction within your own law... you say u got freedom, well where is it?

Your laws are nto consistant, that's the problem, in any Islamic country you go to, the laws are the same, and they just don't change. In your case, one day you could be looked at as a twit for doing something, and the next day that same action is a symbol of pride."

which answers that.

So if you are wise, you will stand over it and focus on your studies.

I've answered that up the top.

tc all the best
 
Of course all women should wear it in an Islamic state, when you consider that the purpose is to prevent corruption in the society by preventing relationships outside of marriage, rape etc and helping people lower their gaze, as if it matters to men who are trying to lower thier gaze if the half naked women are muslim or not!

I disagree, of course. If you can provide any evidence whatsoever that compulsory wearing of the hijab would prevent any of those things I'd be delighted to see it. Again, "tyranny of the majority".. the suppression of personal freedom to force conformity on the spurious grounds some 'harm' is somehow being prevented. The idea that a few women walking about without a hijab (which is hardly "half naked" is it?) will result in rape and adultery is complete rubbish.


you mean none right? as in no islamic states? lol

No, but the vast majority of "muslim countries" are not "Islamic states".
 
I disagree, of course. If you can provide any evidence whatsoever that compulsory wearing of the hijab would prevent any of those things I'd be delighted to see it. Again, "tyranny of the majority".. the suppression of personal freedom to force conformity on the spurious grounds some 'harm' is somehow being prevented. The idea that a few women walking about without a hijab (which is hardly "half naked" is it?) will result in rape and adultery is complete rubbish

compare sexual disease stats in middle east 15 yeras ago to what it is now :uhwhat, n compare rape rates 100 years ago to where it is now :uhwhat

No, but the vast majority of "muslim countries" are not "Islamic states".

das wat she saying :uhwhat
 
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compare sexual disease stats in middle east 15 yeras ago to what it is now :uhwhat, n compare rape rates 100 years ago to where it is now

So what? I assume they have gone down otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it, but how on earth can you link that to the hijab? The reasons could be absolutely anything, a general increase in religious values and morality, better sexual health education, better law enforcement, more severe punishments, lots of other possible factors or a combination of all of them.
 
So what? I assume they have gone down otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it, but how on earth can you link that to the hijab? The reasons could be absolutely anything, a general increase in religious values and morality, better sexual health education, better law enforcement, more severe punishments, lots of other possible factors or a combination of all of them.

anyone with a milligram of brain cells would figure that if a sis is covered perverted men r less likely to get excited n think of bad things which lead to ugly things :offended:
 
We've all got into Farmer John's tractor and let him drive us off-topic.

Unless you want to hear more of my surreal (yet mostly just rubbish) metaphors, I suggest everyone stays on-topic.
 
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The thing I keep wondering is, why? Why was the ban put into place?
There must have been a problem that they were trying to solve.
They didn't creat a law for something to do.

So Why?
 
Because they cant handle religious people =D lol.
If they think stuff like that is a "disturbance" to learning then they have some mental problems. What about other things that most likely cause disturbances...why not put a ban on that? I know why they dont, cuz theyre stupid =\
 
The thing I keep wondering is, why? Why was the ban put into place?
There must have been a problem that they were trying to solve.
They didn't creat a law for something to do.

So Why?

Assimilation. They want everyone to accept the French values of 'liberté, égalité, fraternité, laïcité'. They are afraid that rejection of these values will lead to a segregated society with major social cleavages.
 
Assimilation. They want everyone to accept the French values of 'liberté, égalité, fraternité, laïcité'. They are afraid that rejection of these values will lead to a segregated society with major social cleavages.
So would it be accurate to assume those that oppose the laws are anti-assimilation?
 
Ok, let me see the problem from a different point of view:

What happen, when a western woman come to a muslim country and has to go on public street ? She must cover her face, right? Well, where is this so-called freedom?
Well, I just repeat my words: It is a good law, and it should become world wide ! No favoritism !
Look, even USA made a step in this direction (at least in different parts): They ban already every sign of national pride (no matter what country) out of the schools.


there is a difference between covering and exposing...

the hijab to a Muslim women is the equivalent of any other important part of a womens dress

its not a mere fashion Accessory or symbol,

It's important to Muslims women as a pair of trousers is to a muslim/non muslim..

so when a muslim women is forced to take off her hijab...she is being stripped of her modesty not just a piece of fabric that represents her faith.
 
i read this article a while back, and it thought it would be useful to post it in this thread.
:cry: :cry: :cry:


The Cennet Doganay Story: Battle for the Hijab

When I look in the mirror before I go to school, I hardly recognize myself. Some mornings I even say, "Wait-who is that bald girl?" It's a a very strange sensation.

Truthfully? It's brutal. My family and I are French Muslims. There are about five million Muslims here in France, a little less than ten percent of the population, and Islam is the second largest religion in the country. My parents are originally from Turkey, but they both moved to France when they were almost fifteen, my age now. My five brothers and I were all born in the eastern French city of Strasbourg, where we still live. At home, it's a mix of French, Muslim, and Turkish culture: I speak French to my parents, I pray in the mosque with my mother, we go to Turkey for summer vacation. We are a religious family; we believe in Allah.

Islamic tradition states that a woman's hair should never be visible in public. The hair is a symbol of sex and sensuality, and in our religion it's considered improper to reveal or flaunt it before men. My mother and I wear headscarves, called hijabs, when we go out. The only time we remove them is when we are at home with our closest family. But on September 1 of last year, things changed for many Muslims in France. The government put a law into effect forbidding all religious signs inside public schools including the wearing of headscarves.

France is what you call a secular country. Since 1905, French law has required a complete separation between church and state, which for the most part is a good idea, as it prohibits any preaching in school and helps ease religious tensions. The new ban is designed to uphold this idea of separation, but I feel the government has gone way too far. We're not allowed to show any religious affiliation at all, and for some of us, our religion is a huge part of who we are. We're not trying to convert anyone or imply that our religion is better than any other; we're just trying to be ourselves.

This new law broke my heart: I was asked to choose between my religion and my studies, between being myself and having a future. Why would the government do that?

The first day back at school after the ban went into effect was a horrible day. It took me an hour to get dressed. I knew I couldn't wear a headscarf, so I chose to wear a large beret, sort of like a reggae singer's hat. I felt like I was dishonoring my religion, but it seemed to be a good compromise. The principal didn't think so. She forbade me to attend classes while wearing my beret, "because of the new law," she said. So I was sent to a separate room, without anything to do.

The same thing happened the next day, and the next. I Was in quarantine, as if my piety were contagious. Some of my Muslim classmates complied because they felt they had to, and others left school completely. Every morning, the principal sat me down and told me I was wrong. She threatened me with disciplinary hearings or expulsion if I did not take off the beret. I was an outlaw, she said. I replied that only very obvious religious signs were banned by the law. I was just wearing a hat, after all. But she wouldn't listen.I wanted to go to school, but I wanted to obey my religion, too. All I knew was that I couldn't show my hair in public. The decision was difficult, but my only option. On September 5, I shaved my entire head of long brown hair. I was bald!

Shaving my head was the most powerful thing I've ever done. It was like transforming myself. I felt I grew up more on that day than I had in all the years before. I wanted to do it alone, but I couldn't reach some spots in the back. I wandered into the kitchen with my head half-shaved and asked my mother for help. She burst into surprised tears and couldn't. My dad came to help. I could tell it was painful for him to see what I'd done.

Even after I shaved my head, I wore a hat to school. I was self-conscious, and nervous about making such a big statement. I continued to spend day after day alone in an empty room, until October 1, when I finally worked up the courage to come to school without my hat. For the first time, I displayed my bald head to everyone. The students were very supportive - they actually cheered! - but the teachers were furious. They took it as an act of defiance, rather than seeing it as a girl doing whatever it takes to obey the law without sacrificing her beliefs. The way I see it, I am doing wrong by neither the government nor my religion, and I'm happy about that.

Unfortunately, there's been some backlash. My parents have always supported me - they never forced me to wear a headscarf, and they never would have thought to suggest that I shave off my hair. Every decision was my own. Still, the bosses at the factory where my father had been a truck driver seemed embarrassed by the publicity surrounding me. I think they started looking for any reason to fire him, and they eventually did. He's hurting now because of me, and that's so hard for me to bear.

Some teachers at my school say I have no future wearing a headscarf - that eventually, France is going to ban them everywhere - but I'll show them wrong. My headscarf is my dignity, not just a piece of fabric. It's me. It's the centerpiece of my outfit, the first item I pick out of my closet in the morning. My pants or sweater must match the scarf. I favor plain colors - no flowers or bold patterns of any kind - and right now, I like my purple one best.

I'll be bald until the school year ends. I shave my head once a week, in my parents' bathroom. My youngest brother, Hasan, who's only two years old, doesn't like my bald head. He says, "I want to play with your hair. Yuck, you look ugly." But I just ignore him. I don't mind how I look - though maybe I'll let my hair grow a little over the summer.
 
I think the riots in France not long ago point to the failure of France's "assimilation" programs. I believe in secular government, but not to the point where a person cannot express themselves or follow the tenets of their religion. What France has done will only alienate more people and cause more problems with the isolated Muslim and other communities within France. At my school I was around quite a few women who wore the hijab and it doesn't affect anything going on in the classroom. This is just an example of the French and the hypocritical nature of their society. No offense to any French men or women on the forum.
 
When I go to school, I want to focus on my studies, and not on religious symbols, neither sit beside a person who is covered by a tent, neither hiding behind a scarf, nor wearing a big wooden cross, or whatever.
That's why it is called a SCHOOL.

if you go to school to focus on your "studies" then why should you pay attention to what the next person is wearing??:?

why should that bother you.

surely that means you are focusing your attention elsewhere. and not on your studies. if that distracts you then thats too bad, thats a personal issue you have..

i dont think i have ever heard of a situation where someone wearing too much...could cause a distraction!

its evident that women revealing themselves causes much more of a distraction, its widespread...

schoolboys falling in love with their teachers etc etc....

surely an exposed chest and the exposure of flesh is bound to cause more distraction than a mere headscarf, skullcap or cross.
 

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