Hijab to be banned in Oslo’s schools

[Malaikah]

Really? Why not ask a devout sikh that goes nowhere without his kirpan, and feels it his religious obligation by his faith to carry it?

There would be a logical reason to ban carrying knives at school. It doesnt take a genious to identify the dangers associated with knives. I cant imagine killing someone with a hijab or skull cap or a small cross on a necklace.

Most times you will find that many others are affected as well. In most situations where the hijab has been banned, so has the sikh turban and all other religious items.

In my country the discussion was only ever on Muslims and hijab.

 

[snakelegs]

False. The intent of the law is separation of ALL religion from state.
.

yeah, i think that's what france said, anyway. but it makes no sense. because in this case it isn't a matter of the state sponsoring or upholding any religion - it is a matter of followers of a religion and their right to to practice their religion, and i don't see this as a violation of secularism at all. if the state put crucifixes in classrooms - that would be a violation of separation of church and state. see the difference?

 

[Panatella]

see the difference?

Yes. Point taken.

 

[HeiGou]

well,,,i guess i cannot go to oslo then,,

beside,,,i dont like to visit a munafiq country,,,,

a country always shout "no racism" !!! but they are racists !...

Umm, how can Oslo be in a munafiq country? Wouldn't Norway have to be a Muslim country before it could be a munafiq one? Don't you, in fact, live in a munafiq country already?

More to the point the ban is not on hijab, but on niqaab. To quote,

Torger Oedegaard, Oslo city councillor for schools and education, said: "We are not forbidding religious garments. One must distinguish between the religious hijab and the completely covering niqab. The latter makes it impossible to have good communication between teacher and student, and between students as well."​

Exactly how is a ban on niqaab, or even hijab, racist? There is no race in Islam, no?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

These bans are typically on all religious symbolism, not just targeting muslims. People are always free to emmigrate to a country that allows them thier symbols.

Even turbans sikh metal bracelet & the Kirpan (sword) ?

 

[KAding]

So, we are not actually talking about the Hijab, right? This is about the Niqab and Burkas, no? Only the latter have been banned?

In that case, I have no problem with this decision.

 

[IceQueen~]

if they call making filthy cartoons of extremely beloved and respected people freedom of speech which they claim is part of human rights-then isn't the freedom of choice in what you wear part of human rights!!!!!?

 

[Panatella]

if they call making filthy cartoons of extremely beloved and respected people freedom of speech which they claim is part of human rights-then isn't the freedom of choice in what you wear part of human rights!!!!!?

The leaders of a country are free to run it how they please, and typically the wishes of the majority rule. If the people that live there are not happy with the wishes of the majority, they are always free to move to a country that embraces the values that they hold dear.
I am not always happy with the majority decision where I live. Up to this point I have not felt strongly enough to leave.

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

So, we are not actually talking about the Hijab, right? This is about the Niqab and Burkas, no? Only the latter have been banned?

In that case, I have no problem with this decision.

You may not but whole load of muslim women who wear it do. May I ask you expand on your statement here:

In that case, I have no problem with this decision

 

[KAding]

You may not but whole load of muslim women who wear it do. May I ask you expand on your statement here:

Yeah, I do guess I have some explaining to do on that . To be honest, I don't really support a ban on Burka's and Niqab's in school either, but I can understand why teachers would prefer it.

Firstly, we are not dealing with 'women', but with 'girls'. Girls who are not yet adult. Why don't they decide on stuff like this when they reach adulthood?

Secondly, the Niqab isn't even a requirement from all I've read, so I think it's hard to accept on religious grounds, considering the fact that virtually all schools have some dresscode.

Thirdly, I can certainly imagine it being a problem in the classroom. It's completely impossible for a teacher to figure out what emotional state the student is in. Surely, to be able to teach properly one must be able to see how a student reacts to a question, whether she can handle the subject. It will also become very hard to detect emotional problems, since the student can simply hide behind her dress. I think it will reduce the quality of education, since it simply reduces the quality of communiation between the student and the class/teacher. I don't think it's a good idea either to so completely seperate the student from the rest of the class, since she is virtually guaranteed to become isolated socially. As a Muslim, maybe you think the latter is a good thing, but for me it seems an unhealthy thing to do, since we are dealing with non-adults here. If they want to isolate themselves when they are adult, fine, that is their decision, but I believe it can be damaging to the development of a child.

 

[Panatella]

There would be a logical reason to ban carrying knives at school. It doesnt take a genious to identify the dangers associated with knives. I cant imagine killing someone with a hijab or skull cap or a small cross on a necklace.

To some devout sikh, this kirpan is every bit as important to them as your hijab is to you. What would give you or anyone else the right to say it is not important enough to allow? Why is his religious obligation not as important as yours?
How about burkas? Many argue that burkas are a security risk. Identities and weapons can be hidden. It could be said that no burkas or kirpans. Same, or not?

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

Hi KAding

Firstly, we are not dealing with 'women', but with 'girls'. Girls who are not yet adult. Why don't they decide on stuff like this when they reach adulthood?

In Islam, as soon as puberty starts one is recognized and considered an adult. It does not matter what age you are. Thus, one has to start applying the Shari’ah in his/her life.

Allah says in the Quran:

“The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah (His Words, the Qur’an) and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say: “We hear and we obey.” And such are the successful (who will live forever in Paradise). And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful.” [Qur’an, Surah Noor, 51-52]

Please refer to this link to general understanding of regarding puberty in Islam. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/fasting/tajuddin/fast_21.html

From many of the articles I read in newspapers “the issue” of ruling out the Hijab is not in elementary schools or even primary schools but mostly in secondary schools and universities.

Secondly, the Niqab isn't even a requirement from all I've read, so I think it's hard to accept on religious grounds, considering the fact that virtually all schools have some dresscode.

If it was not considered a requirement then why do some women bother to wear it all?

The issue of niqab is not agreed upon in Islam. Some scholars view it as obligatory while there is a large group of scholars that maintain that it is simply a voluntary (sunnah) act, not obligatory.

Please see: http://www.islamicboard.com/103841-post57.html

Thirdly, I can certainly imagine it being a problem in the classroom. It's completely impossible for a teacher to figure out what emotional state the student is in. Surely, to be able to teach properly one must be able to see how a student reacts to a question, whether she can handle the subject. It will also become very hard to detect emotional problems, since the student can simply hide behind her dress. I think it will reduce the quality of education, since it simply reduces the quality of communiation between the student and the class/teacher. I don't think it's a good idea either to so completely seperate the student from the rest of the class, since she is virtually guaranteed to become isolated socially. As a Muslim, maybe you think the latter is a good thing, but for me it seems an unhealthy thing to do, since we are dealing with non-adults here. If they want to isolate themselves when they are adult, fine, that is their decision, but I believe it can be damaging to the development of a child.

Yeah sure, a teacher should interact with her/his students. How does the niqab cause any barrier? I do not think it causes any communication barrier. If a teacher wants to test the understanding of her/his student then simply they can ask question. In addition, the teacher give end of unite exams. It is a good way to test the ability and understanding of the student. I don’t understand the issue with the Niqab.

 

[firdaw]

Don't they have the freedom of religion like Americans here, Thats just wrong to interfear with peoples religions i mean how would you feel if someone made you become a christen or a jaw they be total wrong right, thats is the most wrongest thing to do to someone is to tell them what not wear.

 

[firdaw]

I recomanded the people who live in Europe to start a strike about the freedom of religion and how wrong it is to tell people what to wear, so to those who live in europe i recomanded you guys to do something for your religion, because those kaffirs want you to go to hell and if you love your religion you fight and do something about, but otherwise if you are scared you are not going to do something.

 

[dianputri]

Umm, how can Oslo be in a munafiq country? Wouldn't Norway have to be a Muslim country before it could be a munafiq one? Don't you, in fact, live in a munafiq country already?

More to the point the ban is not on hijab, but on niqaab. To quote,

Torger Oedegaard, Oslo city councillor for schools and education, said: "We are not forbidding religious garments. One must distinguish between the religious hijab and the completely covering niqab. The latter makes it impossible to have good communication between teacher and student, and between students as well."​

Exactly how is a ban on niqaab, or even hijab, racist? There is no race in Islam, no?

really ?

ok,,i accept for my country fro being munafiq. but,,,my country is still allow women to wear hijab. Also,,,the most munafiq country such us america still allow muslim woman to wear hijab too.

so,,pardon me about munafiq country for oslo. perhaps i have to say,,,,

THe most of the most munafiq country is oslo, which is not allow women / gals wear hijab.

yes, you are right. islam does not know race or racism. what i wrote is mean that islam never teach racist. non muslim does,,,

example : white and black.

you see,, many black are muslim. dont u wanna know why ?

peace
salam

 

[searchingsoul]

knife?? that might be understandable:rollseyes cross- how hard is it to tuck it under ones jumper? its all wrong but you know what the focus is mainly on muslim women.

No one is effected by it as much as the muslim females, because hijab isnt just a symbol like the cross, is the cross even compolsury? the hijab is compulsory, so its different. Also, i think it effects jewish men too apparently they have to cover their heads and thats why they wear skull caps.

Why did you even ask me that question, i didnt say anything in my post indicating that religious symbols should be banned (note: hijab is not meant to be a symbol):-\

Maybe the female Muslims who choose not to wear the hijab are adding to the confusion in the West. Since a large amount of Muslim women do not wear the hijab it is understandable why non-Muslims would think that it was symbolic opposed to mandatory.

 

[Woodrow]

Maybe the female Muslims who choose not to wear the hijab are adding to the confusion in the West. Since a large amount of Muslim women do not wear the hijab it is understandable why non-Muslims would think that it was symbolic opposed to mandatory.

Very good point, How can we expect to convince non-Muslims that the Hijab is part of our religion, when we do not seem to consider it important among ourselves?

 

[GARY]

The women that don't wear the hijab are causing division among muslims and confusion about islam. They are harming the ummah, perhaps they need to be punished.

 

[Woodrow]

The women that don't wear the hijab are causing division among muslims and confusion about islam. They are harming the ummah, perhaps they need to be punished.

Although most Muslims are in agreement that the Hijab is an important part of our religion. It is not permissable to force a woman to wear it.

There is no compulsion in religion. A person must choose to follow it under their own free will. We can not judge an individuals reason for wearing or not wearing the Hijab. However we can state that we feel that by not wearing it, a person is demeaning our beliefs. We can also pray that the woman will be guided to do what is expected. However, we can not place any compolsion on what is done or not done. It is of no value unless it is out of Love and true obedience to Allah(swt)

 

[Malaikah]

The women that don't wear the hijab are causing division among muslims and confusion about islam. They are harming the ummah, perhaps they need to be punished.

And while thats happening, what are we to do with all the so called Muslim leaders who are committing crimes 50 times worse than these women and destroying the ummah? Nothing can be done on a large scale until a real Islamic state with real leadership is established.

Their punishment will be with God for the time being.