Hijamah/Blood-letting Cupping & Reviving the Sunnah

[جوري]

Definite for all ailments except death. That's one way to interpret it which would make it clearly scientifically inaccurate. The other interpretation is that it helps with every disease, which is not scientifically innacurate per se.

I am not going to argue against what I have already broken down structurally word per word and in light of entire compendiums of prophetic medicine.. However, I'll argue that you can't say that it is scientifically inaccurate even if if we were to go solely by the first explanation and not the [latter (more accurate)] simply because we have not run clinical trials using only black seed against whatever other drug to see head to head which is most beneficial!

and I wouldn't mind such trials given that they'd have to be cross referenced only against diseases that were prevalent millenniums ago and not for instance such new diseases as 'AIDS' ..

all the best

 

[Froggy]

I am not going to argue against what I have already broken down structurally word per word and in light of entire compendiums of prophetic medicine.. However, I'll argue that you can't say that it is scientifically inaccurate even if if we were to go solely by the first explanation and not the [latter (more accurate)] simply because we have not run clinical trials using only black seed against whatever other drug to see head to head which is most beneficial!

and I wouldn't mind such trials given that they'd have to be cross referenced only against diseases that were prevalent millenniums ago and not for instance such new diseases as 'AIDS' ..

all the best

Why only those? Its says every disease but death, which must mean every ailment that has and will affect man.
And even if you focus on the time of the prophet, do you honestly think a seed (or any other substance for that matter ...) can cure, for instance, Angelman syndrome?

 

[جوري]

Why only those? Its says every disease but death, which must mean every ailment that has and will affect man.
And even if you focus on the time of the prophet, do you honestly think a seed (or any other substance for that matter ...) can cure, for instance, Angelman syndrome?

Only those because the Hadith wasn't specific for things to come.. in fact it is a sign of judgment day and mentioned in other ahadith, that the more people sin, the newer and incurable diseases will befall them.

'Abdullâh ibn 'Umar said, "The Prophet (SAW) came to us and said, 'O Muhajirun, (emigrants from Makkah to al-Madînah) you may be afflicted by five things; God forbid that you should live to see them. If fornication should become widespread, you should realise that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people which their forebears never suffered. If people should begin to cheat in weighing out goods, you should realise that this has never happened without drought and famine befalling the people, and their rulers oppressing them. If people should withhold Zakat, you should realise that this has never happened without the rain being stopped from falling; and were it not for the animals' sake, it would never rain again. If people should break their covenant with Allâh and His Messenger, you should realise that his has never happened without Allâh sending an enemy against them to take some of their possessions by force. If the leaders do not govern according to the Book of Allâh, you should realise that this has never happened without Allâh making them into groups and making them fight one another.' " (Ibn Majah).

Also you need to define for yourself the difference between a disease and a syndrome!

all the best

 

[Froggy]

Only those because the Hadith wasn't specific for things to come.. in fact it is a sign of judgment day and mentioned in other ahadith, that the more people sin, the newer and incurable diseases will befall them.

'Abdullâh ibn 'Umar said, "The Prophet (SAW) came to us and said, 'O Muhajirun, (emigrants from Makkah to al-Madînah) you may be afflicted by five things; God forbid that you should live to see them. If fornication should become widespread, you should realise that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people which their forebears never suffered. If people should begin to cheat in weighing out goods, you should realise that this has never happened without drought and famine befalling the people, and their rulers oppressing them. If people should withhold Zakat, you should realise that this has never happened without the rain being stopped from falling; and were it not for the animals' sake, it would never rain again. If people should break their covenant with Allâh and His Messenger, you should realise that his has never happened without Allâh sending an enemy against them to take some of their possessions by force. If the leaders do not govern according to the Book of Allâh, you should realise that this has never happened without Allâh making them into groups and making them fight one another.' " (Ibn Majah).

Also you need to define for yourself the difference between a disease and a syndrome!

all the best

Well, if you want definitions, technically death is not a disease either..
And anway:

syn·drome (s

n

dr

m

)n.1. A group of symptoms that collectively indicate or characterize a disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition.
2. a. A complex of symptoms indicating the existence of an undesirable condition or quality.

dis·ease (d

-z

z

)n.1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

Ailment is an ailment.
And people in Mohammed's time certainly didn't know or care about definitions. A child with Angleman syndrome would have been considered ill back then and I'm wondering if you believe black seed/cumin could cure Angelman syndrome.
In one of your previous post you said you believed there is a cure for every disease, even heavy chromosomal deficiencies.

ADD:
A syndrome is a disease and a disease is a syndrome, its intertwined and more about semantics..
Here is a different definition though:

• Disease: a morbid entity characterized usually by at least two of these criteria:
  1. Recognized etiologic agent (cause)
  2. Identifiable group of signs and symptoms
  3. Consistent anatomic alterations

The definition of syndrome is pretty straight forward:

• Syndrome: a collection of signs and symptoms known to frequently appear together but without a known cause.

Angelman nowadays can be considered a disease, it was apparently named a syndrome before its etiology was researched.

 

[Froggy]

edit.............

 

[جوري]

Well, if you want definitions, technically death is not a disease either..
And anway:

I don't understand what this means?

syn·drome (s

n

dr

m

)n.1. A group of symptoms that collectively indicate or characterize a disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition.
2. a. A complex of symptoms indicating the existence of an undesirable condition or quality.

dis·ease (d

-z

z

)n.1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

I am aware of the definitions the question is, are you, you specifically mentioned angelman like pradar willi or cri du chat etc etc. are caused by chromosomal abnormalities.. when it is your genetics, you can't classify it as a disease in the lay man's terms, if we are going by the medical terminologies.. How you find yourself is your baseline..
and we can contrast that with this hadith:

Ibn `Abbâs said to `Atâ b. Rabâh: "Shouldn't I point out to you a woman of Paradise?"

He replied: "Indeed. Do so."

Ibn `Abbâs said: "Do you see that black lady? She approached the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: 'I suffer from epilepsy and during a fit, my body becomes exposed. So please supplicate Allah on my behalf.'

"Then the Prophet said to her: 'If you choose, you might rather bear it patiently and you will attain Paradise on account of it. Or if you like, I will beseech Allah to cure you.'

"She said: 'I will bear it patiently. But my body gets exposed, so please beseech Allah that my body will no longer be exposed.'

"The Prophet (peace be upon him) beseeched Allah for this." [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (5652) and Sahîh Muslim (2576)]
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-427-3255.htm

certainly if black seed could have been used as you suggest 'a cure-all' he'd have prescribed her that for her condition right there and then?

It is important before you gauge in any topic that you are familiar with all aspects of it!

Ailment is an ailment.
And people in Mohammed's time certainly didn't know or care about definitions. A child with Angleman syndrome would have been considered ill back then and I'm wondering if you believe black seed/cumin could cure Angelman syndrome.

See above! you don't know what the people back then cared for or didn't

In one of your previous post you said you believed there is a cure for every disease, even heavy chromosomal deficiencies.

I do indeed.. surely you've heard of vectors and liposomes, enzyme replacement therapy?

http://wiki.medpedia.com/Gaucher's_Disease

all the best

 

[CosmicPathos]

Several options:
1. The interpretaion may be wrong, as you said.
2. Black seed was not available
3. Muhammad forgot what he said about black seed
Etc ...

Of course options abound in the minds of the doubters and disbelievers. Lets look at the proposed options and evaluate their probability in a realistic manner.

2- Whether black seed was available or not, I am assuming you mean available to the Prophet? If that is the case, then Prophet never gave these things to people much like how a pharmacist would. Its surprising that black cumin would not be available in Makkah/Medina! Specially when Prophet previously has said that it has cure for "all diseases," I would suspect EVERY medinan to have it in his house ..... and in the markets. Your assumption that it was not available is a mere conjecture of a sick and deluded mind.

3- Muhammad did not forget about the Quranic verses which were revealed over 23 years, he forgot what prescribed about black cumin seeds? He had a sharper brain than you do.

 

[Froggy]

I don't understand what this means?


I am aware of the definitions the question is, are you, you specifically mentioned angelman like pradar willi or cri du chat etc etc. are caused by chromosomal abnormalities.. when it is your genetics, you can't classify it as a disease in the lay man's terms, if we are going by the medical terminologies.. How you find yourself is your baseline..
and we can contrast that with this hadith:

Ibn `Abbâs said to `Atâ b. Rabâh: "Shouldn't I point out to you a woman of Paradise?"

He replied: "Indeed. Do so."

Ibn `Abbâs said: "Do you see that black lady? She approached the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: 'I suffer from epilepsy and during a fit, my body becomes exposed. So please supplicate Allah on my behalf.'

"Then the Prophet said to her: 'If you choose, you might rather bear it patiently and you will attain Paradise on account of it. Or if you like, I will beseech Allah to cure you.'

"She said: 'I will bear it patiently. But my body gets exposed, so please beseech Allah that my body will no longer be exposed.'

"The Prophet (peace be upon him) beseeched Allah for this." [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (5652) and Sahîh Muslim (2576)]
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-427-3255.htm

certainly if black seed could have been used as you suggest 'a cure-all' he'd have prescribed her that for her condition right there and then?

It is important before you gauge in any topic that you are familiar with all aspects of it!


See above! you don't know what the people back then cared for or didn't


I do indeed.. surely you've heard of vectors and liposomes, enzyme replacement therapy?

http://wiki.medpedia.com/Gaucher's_Disease

all the best

3. It says "cures all disease but death, which suggest death is a disease (at least the English translation suggests that)
2. I guess we can conclude the hadith doesnt say black seed/cumin is a cure for all.
3. I haven't but it doesn't seem really plausible in all conditions. But you can never say never in science.

 

[Froggy]

Of course options abound in the minds of the doubters and disbelievers. Lets look at the proposed options and evaluate their probability in a realistic manner.

2- Whether black seed was available or not, I am assuming you mean available to the Prophet? If that is the case, then Prophet never gave these things to people much like how a pharmacist would. Its surprising that black cumin would not be available in Makkah/Medina! Specially when Prophet previously has said that it has cure for "all diseases," I would suspect EVERY medinan to have it in his house ..... and in the markets. Your assumption that it was not available is a mere conjecture of a sick and deluded mind.

3- Muhammad did not forget about the Quranic verses which were revealed over 23 years, he forgot what prescribed about black cumin seeds? He had a sharper brain than you do.

Remembering verses which one has constantly recited for 23 years is different than forgetting a single fact, and its possible for instance the camel urine hadith was recorded when Muhammad was older, I don't know. And I replied to this in my answer to Skye.

 

[جوري]

3. It says "cures all disease but death, which suggest death is a disease (at least the English translation suggests that)

I have taken care of the translation word for word, plus given ahadith of conditions of the time which weren't prescript black seed.. did you read at all anything that was written-- just so I know whether or not to waste my time as I hate to repeat myself!

2. I guess we can conclude the hadith doesnt say black seed/cumin is a cure for all.

You can also conclude that cumin and black seed are different ahadith given different ahadith numbers as per previous page, and again I have gone extensively over it and shown that cumin isn't even black!

3. I haven't but it doesn't seem really plausible in all conditions. But you can never say never in science.

Indeed.. great strides are made and I have no reason not to believe that at some point many genetic diseases will become extinct once the proper loci is identified and the correct vectors introduced in vivo.. if to every ailment is a cure and as per Quran, the day of judgment will not occur until folks feel that they have a grip on everything, and man's ego and at the same time endeavor for knowledge exists strides can and will be made!

How you personally feel about the matter is irrelevant since most assuredly you'll be dead before said events take place, I doubt very much you can comment on things yet to come and to be discovered or invented!

all the best

 

[جوري]

Remembering verses which one has constantly recited for 23 years is different than forgetting a single fact, and its possible for instance the camel urine hadith was recorded when Muhammad was older, I don't know. And I replied to this in my answer to Skye.

verses weren't constantly recited over 23 yrs.. if you took the trouble at all, you'd know that they were constantly revealed.. some ten, fifteen years apart and in different places belonging to different suras.. I don't think you quite understand the magnitude of that, and simply we aren't speaking of verses here, rather ahadith, a completely different style text in every day language..

your reply to him or me isn't well thought out I am afraid..

it is best to reflect on what you are trying to say or write before you write it, not just out of the love of making a point albeit an absurd one!

all the best

 

[Froggy]

verses weren't constantly recited over 23 yrs.. if you took the trouble at all, you'd know that they were constantly revealed.. some ten, fifteen years apart and in different places belonging to different suras.. I don't think you quite understand the magnitude of that, and simply we aren't speaking of verses here, rather ahadith, a completely different style text in every day language..

your reply to him or me isn't well thought out I am afraid..

it is best to reflect on what you are trying to say or write before you write it, not just out of the love of making a point albeit an absurd one!

all the best

I have a rough understandning of the islamic revelation and I am well aware of the difference between it and the sunnah. And if youd read my post correctly youd see that.

 

[جوري]

I have a rough understandning of the islamic revelation and I am well aware of the difference between it and the sunnah. And if youd read my post correctly youd see that.

I didn't rely on circumstantial evidence rather what you yourself have written her:

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-...ng-cupping-reviving-sunnah-4.html#post1293395

Remembering verses which one has constantly recited for 23 years is different than forgetting a single fact

all the best

 

[Froggy]

Is there any credible research to shed light on the positive healing effects of cupping?

 

[جوري]

Is there any credible research to shed light on the positive healing effects of cupping?

I don't know, I haven't come across any..

blood letting or medical phlebotomy is mainstay treatments for conditions I afore mentioned however.
You are welcome to start a double blind trial and publish in the esteemed journal of your choice however.. I doubt very much that holistic medicine be it acupuncture or blood letting goes head to head to current medical treatment.. it is simply a different avenue and certainly not a substitute from receiving current medical care.

Nothing in science for instance forbids me from taking a table spoon of honey a day along with an inhaled ergot so I am not sure where you are headed with all of this?

all the best

 

[shuaib]

I don't know, I haven't come across any..

blood letting or medical phlebotomy is mainstay treatments for conditions I afore mentioned however.
You are welcome to start a double blind trial and publish in the esteemed journal of your choice however.. I doubt very much that holistic medicine be it acupuncture or blood letting goes head to head to current medical treatment.. it is simply a different avenue and certainly not a substitute from receiving current medical care.

Nothing in science for instance forbids me from taking a table spoon of honey a day along with an inhaled ergot so I am not sure where you are headed with all of this?

all the best

Hi all

Just came across this discussion about doing an effective study on the possible benefits of wet-cupping.

There was a similar discussion on another forum about how to go about designing one at Qatar Living Forums (but I think there are some inherent difficulties):

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/878458

However it would be good if someone can come up with some good suggestions, I would be happy to take part in any such study and also help provide volunteers to take part.

Shuaib
Ahealth

 

[glo]

It's interesting that Hijama is an originally Chinese practice.
The principle of Qi (see below) sounds very much like Chinese medicine to me. Does it align with Islamic teachings? (I assume it must do, if Muhammad practiced and permitted it himself)

Qi

Qi is the invisible life force – like air and wind. The West tries to define Qi as ‘the energy of life’, ‘vital force’, ‘life force’, ‘energy’, but there is no Western equivalent. When we are ill we feel weak and have a low energy level but when we feel better we feel more energetic and much stronger. So we all experience the existence of Qi continuously.
Movement of any kind requires Qi and often this is manifested as heat. Lack of energy is signified by cold.

Another question:

I donate blood regularly - approximately 500 ml every three months.
I wonder if donating blood would have similar health benefits to the donor as Hijama ... as well as benefiting the recipient? Does anybody know?

 

[Ramadhan]

It's interesting that Hijama is an originally Chinese practice.
The principle of Qi (see below) sounds very much like Chinese medicine to me. Does it align with Islamic teachings? (I assume it must do, if Muhammad practiced and permitted it himself)

Yes, prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him practiced Hijama and it is sunnah, but he never mentioned anything about this "Qi" thing.
The mentions of Qi in the article is very ambiguous and not clear what it actually is, so i don't give much weight into it.

I donate blood regularly - approximately 500 ml every three months.
I wonder if donating blood would have similar health benefits to the donor as Hijama ... as well as benefiting the recipient? Does anybody know?

I also donate blood regularly, similar to your routine.
i don't think donating blood have similar benefits to Hijama. Although they may share some benefits.
first, blood for donation is taken straight from veins, which is the normal blood circulating in our body, while hijama sucked out only "bad blood" from skin capilaries between arteries.
Also, hijama is done on certain parts of the body (mostly back and other areas where problems occur).

 

[glo]

^
That's interesting. Thank you, naidamar.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

i understand the benefit of hijama, but do you need to go to someone professional to do it for you? is it possible to practice and implement it on yourself? is it hard to learn? how can one learn to do hijama?
i havnt read the whole thread, so i hope these questions havent been answered already.