guyabano
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Hindu-Christian Clashes in India
- Thread starter The_Prince
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The_Prince
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what would you like me to call them? dandy smiling all loving christians? plz plz tell me what would you like me to call these christians????
and my agenda? what would that be? incase your abit thick or something the topic is hindu christian clashes, hence the comments i made are relevent to the subject on this thread, so maybe you need brain surgery?
but you prove what ive said on another thread, that you westerners are trying to silence the Muslim voice. i have seen you on many threads always talking Islamic terrorists bla bla bla, but when i bring up christian terrorists, with the links and everything, what do you do? instead of responding to the issue, you spin it and say oh look, this muslim has an agenda!
so its ok for you to 24-7 speak against Muslims and Muslims shooting and blowing some things up, but when Muslims speak against Christians doing the exact same thing it all of a sudden becomes some evil agenda? as i said folks, theyre trying to silence the Muslim voice, whenever we expose their crimes they will spin it by not responding, no, they will spin it and try to attack you.....your pathetic at best, seriously.
north_malaysian
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I think the world reserved the term "terrorists" to Muslims only....
If it involved other religious groups they would call them extremists, fighters, guerillas, rebels, seccessionist, anything but "terrorists".
If it involved other religious groups they would call them extremists, fighters, guerillas, rebels, seccessionist, anything but "terrorists".
Hawa
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Defend themselves against ideologies? There is no culture on earth worth preserving let alone through violent means.
To those who've hijacked this thread, those arguments are getting really old. No one is furthering any notable cause so why not quit the bickering, agree to disagree and get on with life. It's all incredibly childish.
Reading through this dumb thread, it became obvious to me that you are very ignorant of Islam, following logic of this idiotic thread, it would seem that it is o k for Hindus to use any means to stop people from escaping oppression and starvation but it is not allowed for Christians to fight back.
about you having Christmas dinner with a Christian friend (whose food is haram for us as is taking part in their festivals) is quite a revelation.
Regarding your rantings about Jewish media:
Suffice it to say that; Jewish behavior, attitude and actions towards us are product of their history determined by their desire to survive (among other things) and it is being reinforced by the foul behavior of big mouthed, ignorant and illiterate moolas who don't know how to control their tongues
just when one thinks this site cannot be dragged down anymore in to the gutter, someone like you comes along and proves the opposite.
Note: to clarify that this post is not in support of any kafar trolls: I despise guyabano types as much as I loathe fake moolahs (and hindus).
Last edited:
chacha_jalebi
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elo ello
my first action as a mod :shade:
all the off topic and argument causing posts have been removed
lets not post stuff and try to get under each others skins, debate in a nice way and stay on topic . .
my first action as a mod :shade:
all the off topic and argument causing posts have been removed
lets not post stuff and try to get under each others skins, debate in a nice way and stay on topic . .
ricardo_sousa
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I understand the taxes comments being deleted... but why you delete my opinion about this topic?
I would say you could call the Christian Terrorists, or extremists, or fanatics or whatever you want, to me it is no more than a term to describe an individual or group of individuals and does not represent all Christians. Just the same as muslim terrorist. I love Islam and Muslims, good people and a great religion. I also love christians and hindus and buddhists and taoists and atheists and even the agnostics. In every group I am sure you can find the backwards violence plagued groups, it just seems as though it is more middle easterners that we see blowing themselves into flesh stew than anyone else, often while saying "Allah is the only God and Muhammad (pbuh) was his messenger", you dont see these Christians or really anyone else doing this... I guess it is what separates the two, but what most people dont realize is that the middle east is decades, maybe more behind the rest of the world, the leaders are rish and powerful while the people are left poor and stupid. What a sad story.
Anyways, may Allah guide these groups in India to peace with one another. It is sad to see that once again religion is behind violence and a general lack of respect for human life. Ironic isnt it?
chacha_jalebi
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aaa the powers of being a mod
well as you said bro, the ones i deleted where regarding some tax thing and the only other one i deleted of yours was about religion being a ideology . . . and the topic was hindu - christians clashes, so...
and bro if you have any other questions regarding deleting of threads, just pm the moderator who did it
It makes me laugh when you say that in north east hindus are killed by christian. I my is a Muslim from Northeast - the main problem in northeast is that - Northeast was never a part of of India , and all of northeast wants to get rid of these Hindus - north indians. When ever you see than the majority of the peoples those who get killed by the resistance movement are the north indian hindus or the bangla hindus or the peoples who support the hindus barbaric rule.
In India, a new breed of missionary stirs passions
By Scott Baldauf, The Christian Science Monitor
JHABUA, INDIA — Biju Verghese believes the end of the world is coming. This faith makes his work urgent: Convert as many Indians to Christianity as possible. Or, as he puts it, "reach the unreached at any cost."
Students pray at the Catholic Mission School in Jhabua. Churches like this one often focus their efforts on schools and hospitals. By Scott Baldauf, CSM
Verghese is a new breed of missionary, tied not to the mainline Protestant or Catholic churches that came with European colonizers but to expansionist evangelical movements in the U.S., Britain, and Australia. These newer Christians are now the most active here, swiftly winning over Indians like Verghese who in turn devote themselves to expanding the church's reach, village by village.
Aside from an attraction to the Christian message, some converts welcome the chance to free themselves from a low-caste status within Hinduism. Some may adopt Christianity by simply adding it to their existing beliefs. To others, conversions are a positive statement that you can choose your religious identity rather than have it fixed at birth.
But the success of recent Christian missionaries and their methods of quick conversions have brought tensions with other religions, including some Christians who fear that certain evangelicals are contributing to a volatile — and at times violent — religious atmosphere. The new missionaries put an emphasis on speed, compelled sometimes by church quotas and a belief in the approach of the world's end.
"Aggressive and unprincipled missionary work that exploits the distress and ignorance of marginalized groups ... can constitute a catalyst to localized violence, particularly when they are brought into confrontation with other" creeds, says Ajai Sahni, executive director of the Institute of Conflict Management in New Delhi.
Nationwide, India has a growing reputation for intolerance toward its religious minorities. The U.S. Committee on International Religious Freedom listed India with 10 other nations of "particular concern" — a legacy of the months-long riots in Gujarat state, when nearly 1,000 Muslims were murdered by their Hindu neighbors.
Colonial legacy
Religions on the Indian subcontinent have jostled with each other for millenniums. Invaders spread Hinduism and Islam through conquest, followed by British Christians who hoped to create "brown Englishmen." The Christian zeal for conversions ebbed in India after a nearly successful Indian rebellion in 1857 and a theological trend toward good works, such as improving education and healthcare.
Some evangelical Christian groups in India are continuing in that tradition. The Evangelical Hospital Association, for instance, has taken over the management of many of the hospitals of Northern India that were built by mainstream Christian churches during the British colonial period. Graham Staines, an evangelical missionary, was famous for his work with lepers in the state of Orissa, before he was murdered in 1999 by Hindu mobs. His wife, Gladys Staines, this week accepted India's highest award for public service, for continuing this work.
Yet many of today's missionaries are returning to practices of proselytizing that were long ago abandoned by the mainline missionaries because they were seen as offensive.
"The church [during British rule] sought actively to communicate the values of the Renaissance with its Christian message," says Sahni. "And while conversion was a significant fact of the British period, the schools and other institutions set up by the missionaries were not primarily driven by the objective of conversion."
In recent years, however, conversion activity has grown more intense, driven by the evangelical Christians funded from abroad, and Hindu nationalists. Both are targeting the same groups: impoverished Dalits, formerly known as "untouchables," and adivasis, or tribal citizens, who have long practiced a religion predating Hinduism.
Nationwide, adivasis number nearly 67 million, or 8% of the nation's population. But here in the district of Jhabua, they are more than 80% of the population. Adivasis are also among India's poorest citizens, earning perhaps $4 per capita per month.
Amid Jhabua's rolling hills and low huts of mud stand Christian churches built 100 years ago.
But the conversion work that some call "aggressive" takes place outside the traditional places of worship. Evangelical and Pentacostal missionaries go village to village, holding prayer meetings in homes or preaching outdoors to all the villagers together.
Speaking in tongues, miracles
These events often mix emotional messages of personal salvation, speaking in tongues, shaking in trances, and miraculous healings. Some people come for the spectacle; others take advantage of free food. After these performances, whole families, neighborhoods, and even villages are sometimes converted. The missionary leaders move on to the next village, leaving behind money — but sometimes little other support — for new church constructions and pastor salaries.
Verghese is pastor of the Beersheba Church of God in Jhabua. He shows a recent video CD, produced by Indian Evangelical Team (IET) leader P.G. Varghis, which makes it clear that conversion, not development, is the priority.
For Verghese and others who believe the Apocalypse could come at any moment, there is little time to carry out the kind of slow, development-oriented missionary work that mainstream churches focus on.
In the video, Varghis proudly mentions that the IET's 1,775 missionaries "planted" 2,000 churches in India in just five years, and planned to reach a goal of 7,777 churches by the year 2010.
In recent years, North India has been a key region of focus by informal networks of Christian evangelical groups in the West, with some churches drawing up quotas for new churches built, gospel literature handed out, and new missionaries trained.
"Christians are being killed," Varghis admitted in the video, "But we are dedicated to build North India for Christ."
A call for dollars
The video, which is narrated in English and is apparently aimed at a Western audience, makes an emotional appeal for funds, noting that it costs $3,000 to $6,000 to build a church, a cost that is far beyond the means of the mainly tribal population that IET hopes to convert.
The differing approaches also came to light during recent tsunami relief efforts. A host of small Christian groups headed to India, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka to distribute humanitarian aid along with Christian literature. Many faith-based aid groups, from the International Committee of the Red Cross to the American Jewish Foundation, avoid handing out such religious materials because of the potential to offend those who are of different faiths.
After the tsunami, the U.S. National Council of Churches issued a statement warning against the practice by "New Missionaries" of mixing evangelism and aid. "Often lacking sophistication about the lure of gifts and money, and wanting to be generous with their resources, they easily fall prey to the charge of using unethical means to evangelize. This creates a backlash," the February statement read.
"You get this guy out of Texas who has no idea of the local culture, he is out to win souls, and he comes with a lot of money," says Bob Alter, former Presbyterian pastor born and raised in the Indian mountain town of Mussoorie, and former superintendent of a missionary institution, the Woodstock School.
The problem with these newer churches, Alter says, is the tone of their message. "You have Baptists using the Diwali festival [the Hindu festival of lights], but they come to 'spread the light to those in darkness.' That is mighty offensive stuff, when you're out to tear down another religion."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-03-31-csm-missionari es_x.htm
By Scott Baldauf, The Christian Science Monitor
JHABUA, INDIA — Biju Verghese believes the end of the world is coming. This faith makes his work urgent: Convert as many Indians to Christianity as possible. Or, as he puts it, "reach the unreached at any cost."
Students pray at the Catholic Mission School in Jhabua. Churches like this one often focus their efforts on schools and hospitals. By Scott Baldauf, CSM
Verghese is a new breed of missionary, tied not to the mainline Protestant or Catholic churches that came with European colonizers but to expansionist evangelical movements in the U.S., Britain, and Australia. These newer Christians are now the most active here, swiftly winning over Indians like Verghese who in turn devote themselves to expanding the church's reach, village by village.
Aside from an attraction to the Christian message, some converts welcome the chance to free themselves from a low-caste status within Hinduism. Some may adopt Christianity by simply adding it to their existing beliefs. To others, conversions are a positive statement that you can choose your religious identity rather than have it fixed at birth.
But the success of recent Christian missionaries and their methods of quick conversions have brought tensions with other religions, including some Christians who fear that certain evangelicals are contributing to a volatile — and at times violent — religious atmosphere. The new missionaries put an emphasis on speed, compelled sometimes by church quotas and a belief in the approach of the world's end.
"Aggressive and unprincipled missionary work that exploits the distress and ignorance of marginalized groups ... can constitute a catalyst to localized violence, particularly when they are brought into confrontation with other" creeds, says Ajai Sahni, executive director of the Institute of Conflict Management in New Delhi.
Nationwide, India has a growing reputation for intolerance toward its religious minorities. The U.S. Committee on International Religious Freedom listed India with 10 other nations of "particular concern" — a legacy of the months-long riots in Gujarat state, when nearly 1,000 Muslims were murdered by their Hindu neighbors.
Colonial legacy
Religions on the Indian subcontinent have jostled with each other for millenniums. Invaders spread Hinduism and Islam through conquest, followed by British Christians who hoped to create "brown Englishmen." The Christian zeal for conversions ebbed in India after a nearly successful Indian rebellion in 1857 and a theological trend toward good works, such as improving education and healthcare.
Some evangelical Christian groups in India are continuing in that tradition. The Evangelical Hospital Association, for instance, has taken over the management of many of the hospitals of Northern India that were built by mainstream Christian churches during the British colonial period. Graham Staines, an evangelical missionary, was famous for his work with lepers in the state of Orissa, before he was murdered in 1999 by Hindu mobs. His wife, Gladys Staines, this week accepted India's highest award for public service, for continuing this work.
Yet many of today's missionaries are returning to practices of proselytizing that were long ago abandoned by the mainline missionaries because they were seen as offensive.
"The church [during British rule] sought actively to communicate the values of the Renaissance with its Christian message," says Sahni. "And while conversion was a significant fact of the British period, the schools and other institutions set up by the missionaries were not primarily driven by the objective of conversion."
In recent years, however, conversion activity has grown more intense, driven by the evangelical Christians funded from abroad, and Hindu nationalists. Both are targeting the same groups: impoverished Dalits, formerly known as "untouchables," and adivasis, or tribal citizens, who have long practiced a religion predating Hinduism.
Nationwide, adivasis number nearly 67 million, or 8% of the nation's population. But here in the district of Jhabua, they are more than 80% of the population. Adivasis are also among India's poorest citizens, earning perhaps $4 per capita per month.
Amid Jhabua's rolling hills and low huts of mud stand Christian churches built 100 years ago.
But the conversion work that some call "aggressive" takes place outside the traditional places of worship. Evangelical and Pentacostal missionaries go village to village, holding prayer meetings in homes or preaching outdoors to all the villagers together.
Speaking in tongues, miracles
These events often mix emotional messages of personal salvation, speaking in tongues, shaking in trances, and miraculous healings. Some people come for the spectacle; others take advantage of free food. After these performances, whole families, neighborhoods, and even villages are sometimes converted. The missionary leaders move on to the next village, leaving behind money — but sometimes little other support — for new church constructions and pastor salaries.
Verghese is pastor of the Beersheba Church of God in Jhabua. He shows a recent video CD, produced by Indian Evangelical Team (IET) leader P.G. Varghis, which makes it clear that conversion, not development, is the priority.
For Verghese and others who believe the Apocalypse could come at any moment, there is little time to carry out the kind of slow, development-oriented missionary work that mainstream churches focus on.
In the video, Varghis proudly mentions that the IET's 1,775 missionaries "planted" 2,000 churches in India in just five years, and planned to reach a goal of 7,777 churches by the year 2010.
In recent years, North India has been a key region of focus by informal networks of Christian evangelical groups in the West, with some churches drawing up quotas for new churches built, gospel literature handed out, and new missionaries trained.
"Christians are being killed," Varghis admitted in the video, "But we are dedicated to build North India for Christ."
A call for dollars
The video, which is narrated in English and is apparently aimed at a Western audience, makes an emotional appeal for funds, noting that it costs $3,000 to $6,000 to build a church, a cost that is far beyond the means of the mainly tribal population that IET hopes to convert.
The differing approaches also came to light during recent tsunami relief efforts. A host of small Christian groups headed to India, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka to distribute humanitarian aid along with Christian literature. Many faith-based aid groups, from the International Committee of the Red Cross to the American Jewish Foundation, avoid handing out such religious materials because of the potential to offend those who are of different faiths.
After the tsunami, the U.S. National Council of Churches issued a statement warning against the practice by "New Missionaries" of mixing evangelism and aid. "Often lacking sophistication about the lure of gifts and money, and wanting to be generous with their resources, they easily fall prey to the charge of using unethical means to evangelize. This creates a backlash," the February statement read.
"You get this guy out of Texas who has no idea of the local culture, he is out to win souls, and he comes with a lot of money," says Bob Alter, former Presbyterian pastor born and raised in the Indian mountain town of Mussoorie, and former superintendent of a missionary institution, the Woodstock School.
The problem with these newer churches, Alter says, is the tone of their message. "You have Baptists using the Diwali festival [the Hindu festival of lights], but they come to 'spread the light to those in darkness.' That is mighty offensive stuff, when you're out to tear down another religion."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-03-31-csm-missionari es_x.htm
The_Prince
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hey i don't care if the Hindus are barbaric monsters eating Christian babies in north east India, im not trying to sound mean when i say that, i am simply using the double standards of Christians. when Muslims in Palestine, chechnya, kashmir etc etc fight against evil oppressors the Christians call them Terrorists, evil-doers, backward Barbaric Muslims, nooo we Christians are good peace loving ppl we dont fightttttttttt......so I am going to use the same standard they use, what so when Christians fight evil people its now 'resistence"????????? sorry not in my book. a spade for a spade
ricardo_sousa
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The_Prince, your problem is resuming the world and its people to religion. You have born 200 years late.
The thing in Assam / N.E. is that before 1947 - the Muslims of these part have being resisting the Hindu Brahmin India Barbaric act - and till now we are resisting - but not through arms. The Christian fanatic who are fighting are just some groups of money hungry peoples and they are the creation of the Brahmins. But now the cat is biting the dog.
that is what cats do when cornered [probably because they don't want the dogs to eat them nor do they want to become dogs (not that it is possible for a cat to become a dog)] so the only remaining option when in a corner is to try to scratch out dog's eyes.
ricardo_sousa
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let me see if I understand what´s going on: the Hindus created the Christian groups to mess with the Muslins?
Look at this article - you can find some truth - http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Dec04-Print-Edition/163112200433.htm
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