Hitchens, the atheist, died

[Pygoscelis]

Furthermore, what exactly was Hitchens' point?

He kept pushing the claim that Islam and therefore muslims are insular, hateful, and often violent, and that "religion poisons everything". This is an image peaceful loving muslims have had to deal with very unfairly (as we saw at the start of this very thread). But then we have muslims here directly playing into Hitchens' claims, cheering for his death and hoping for Sam Harris' death, and the death of other non-muslims because they "reject Allah".

 

[جوري]

He kept pushing the claim that Islam and therefore muslims are insular, hateful, and often violent, and that "religion poisins everything". This is an image peaceful loving muslims have had to deal with very unfairly (as we saw at the start of this very thread). But then we have muslims here directly playing into Hitchens' claims, cheering for his death and hoping for Sam Harris' death, and the death of other non-muslims who "reject Allah".

The man was a drunk, he can say anything he wants. He said a mouthful of 'mother Theresa' He's just a sad drunken git, or rather was 'joy'-- Muslims can indeed be violent and hateful if their buttons are pushed and if war is declared upon and I'd venture to say, that it is the nature of anyone religion or sans religion under extreme duress. We're only here to please God not to appease a drunken Moron.. Again for the umpteenth time good riddance and may justice come fast and swift for his ilk!

best

 

[Salahudeen]

He kept pushing the claim that Islam and therefore muslims are insular, hateful, and often violent, and that "religion poisons everything". This is an image peaceful loving muslims have had to deal with very unfairly (as we saw at the start of this very thread). But then we have muslims here directly playing into Hitchens' claims, cheering for his death and hoping for Sam Harris' death, and the death of other non-muslims who "reject Allah".

But is he not a hypocrite then because many Muslims feel as if he is the one who initiated the hate relationship with his nasty words :hmm: if you walk down the street and someone says something nasty to you, and then you respond with something equally nasty back, does the one who initiated the exchange have a right to claim injustice? after all it was his nasty words that sparked the reaction in the person he was speaking too. :hmm:

 

[Muezzin]

But is he not a hypocrite then because many Muslims feel as if he is the one who initiated the hate relationship with his nasty words :hmm: if you walk down the street and someone says something nasty to you, and then you respond with something equally nasty back, does the one who initiated the exchange have a right to claim injustice? after all it was his nasty words that sparked the reaction in the person he was speaking too. :hmm:

Another option is not to dignify such nastiness with a response.

 

[جوري]

But is he not a hypocrite then because many Muslims feel as if he is the one who initiated the hate relationship with his nasty words if you walk down the street and someone says something nasty to you, and then you respond with something equally nasty back, does the one who initiated the exchange have a right to claim injustice? after all it was his nasty words that sparked the reaction in the person he was speaking too.

You wish it actually remained at a mere exchange of vitriol. We're talking mobilizing armies to kill a million + Muslim children alone not counting the rest, raped, murdered, falsely imprisoned, taken as body parts, taken for a thrill kill, taken for a voyeuristic object multiplied by all our regions.. You honestly expect me to say I am peaceful and loving after that or else I'll be thought of poorly? To hell a thousand times over with what they think!

 

[Salahudeen]

Another option is not to dignify such idiocy with a response.

Now you're talking about an ideal world where people never let their emotions get the better of them, such people are rare.

 

[Muezzin]

Now you're talking about an ideal world where people never let their emotions get the better of them, such people are rare.

I didn't say it was an easy option.

 

[Salahudeen]

I didn't say it was an easy option.

But staying quiet and not dignyfying them with a response is also not the way to go sometimes it depends, I mean look at the battle of Uhud when the Muslims were trapped in a cave with the prophet (saw) and I think it was Abu Sufyan who said, this day is ours or something along these lines, gloating, and then the prophet (saw) said "Dont just stand there quiet, say something back to him! then the companions shouted, "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell fire".

 

[Salahudeen]

He kept pushing the claim that Islam and therefore muslims are insular, hateful, and often violent, and that "religion poisons everything". This is an image peaceful loving muslims have had to deal with very unfairly (as we saw at the start of this very thread). But then we have muslims here directly playing into Hitchens' claims, cheering for his death and hoping for Sam Harris' death, and the death of other non-muslims because they "reject Allah".

He kept pushing this claim but in reality he was just discriminating against a certain people, because such people with the attributes you mentioned exist in every race/religion, even athiests were rejoicing at the death of Osama and would often speak of their hatred for him and find Muslims to beat up.

Here's a celebration at the death of a man who wasn't given a trial. He should have fixed his own house up before he picked on others no??

 

[GuestFellow]

Now you're talking about an ideal world where people never let their emotions get the better of them, such people are rare.

Salaam,

Actually there are many people that I know do not respond to insulting comments.

 

[Salahudeen]

Salaam,

Actually there are many people that I know do not respond to insulting comments.

MashaAllah brother, there is also many people that I know who like to give as good as they get, but this is irrelevant to the point I was making, the point of that story was the following, the guy who responds back with as good as he gets can not be blamed or labelled as someone with hatred or any of those other attributes the other poster mentioned, because he's simply reacting back to the oppression that he's facing.

For the person who started the exchange to turn around and cry wolf is foolish because its his own fault for starting it. This is the point I was trying to get across, that it's unfair for the deceased to label muslims with all those attributes when they're simply reacting to the oppression that they see all around them.

 

[Muhammad]

I don't know much about Hitchens, hence I will not say anything in this regard. But I think some of the comments in this thread have gone too far. We know in general that whoever dies as a disbeliever will be punished by Allaah (swt), however, it is not our place to speak about any specific person saying that they are definitely in Hell and so on, because we don't know what was in their heart at the end and how Allaah (swt) will Judge them (unless we have been told through the texts that an individual died upon kufr eg. the case of Fir'awn and others). We should leave the matter to Allaah (swt). Those scholars who said it is impermissible to curse a particular disbeliever or evildoer concerning whom there is no text stating that they are cursed, used the following as one of their evidences:

The report narrated by al-Bukhaari (4070) from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar, that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when he raised his head from rukoo’ in the final rak’ah of Fajr prayer and said: “O Allaah, curse So and so, and So and so, and So and so,” after he had said, “Sami’a Allaahu li man hamdih, Rabbana wa laka’l-hamd.” Then Allaah revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning):

“Not for you (O Muhammad, but for Allaah) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zaalimoon (polytheists, disobedients and wrongdoers)”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:128]

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/36674
​

Thus, it is safer for us to remain quiet than to say something which may be impermissible.

We Muslims aren't out to dispel the stereotypes.. Decade long wars against Islam and Muslims tell us that no amount of 'Positive PR' is going to satisfy these people!

The image of Islam that we give to others is very important, and thus dispelling stereotypes is of concern to us all. This is another reason why we should be careful about how we express our opinions on forums frequented by both Muslims and non-Muslims, such that we do not cause more harm than good. Allaah (swt) says, interpretation of the meaning:

Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [An-Nahl: 125]

Da'wah is an important part of our deen and we have to do our best to reach out to all those that will listen in the hope that Allaah (swt) may guide them.

And Allaah (swt) knows best. I believe this thread has gone far enough. If I am mistaken in anything I have said, I am happy to be corrected through private message.

:threadclo

 

[Ramadhan]

Besides, if you want to question why atheists use the term, "R.I.P" when someone dies, you don't need to have Hitchens involved.

To tell you the truth, this is the first time that I've seen self-identified atheists using "R.I.P."
Yes, I've seen many westerners or christians used the expression countless time before but I wasn't sure about their faith etc, and so I was honestly very very surprised to see in definite term first time that atheists used it for the death of another atheist in hitchens' death.
It wouldn't have made sense if I didn't mention Hitchens' death as I would certainly have been asked for proof and evidence by the atheists of this forum and also mentioning his death makes what I'm trying to say/ask clearer.
And as you've seen in this thread, I expressed neither joy nor sorrow at hitchens' death.

 

[Ramadhan]

To that I ask does saying "holy cow!" make you a Hindu? Does "By Jove" make you pagan? It is just part of the culture and language. "Rest In Peace" is what you say when somebody dies and you want to honour their memory or express respect or shared sorrow at losing somebody when they die. It doesn't mean you actually believe they are out there somewhere resting peacefully in a meadow or something.

I don't say "holy cow" and "by Jove" so I don't understand what you are trying to say.
And I think "holy cow" is from how jews created a golden calf and worship it, not from hindu.

From my understanding, "rest in peace" means (form wikipedia):

"Rest in peace" (Latin: Requiescat in pace) is a short epitaph or idiomatic expression wishing eternal rest and peace to someone who has died. The expression typically appears on headstones, often abbreviated as "RIP". The phrase or initialism is commonly found on the grave of Catholics,[SUP][1][/SUP] as it is derived from the burial service of the Catholic Church, in which the following prayer is said at the commencement and conclusion:[SUP][2][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]“[/TD]
[TD]Anima eius et animae omnium fidelium defunctorum per Dei misericordiam requiescant in pace.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

In English, it is rendered as[SUP][3][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]“[/TD]
[TD]May his soul and the souls of all the departed faithful by God's mercy rest in peace.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


To satisfy a vogue for rhyming couplets on tombstones, the phrase has been parsed as:[SUP][4][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]“[/TD]
[TD]Requiesce
cat in pace[/TD]
[TD="width: 20"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Originally in Hebrew in Isaiah (57, 2):
[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]“[/TD]
[TD]...will come in peace, and they will rest in their beds, he who goes straightforward.[/TD]
[TD]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



So wouldn't it make more sense for an atheist to say to another atheist who's died something like "farewell into non-existence/oblivion/nothingness", instead of "rest in peace"?