Holy Books as Evidence Against Their Gods

[Malaikah]

Indeed, perhaps God DESIRED this current state of affairs, with numerous competing religions, fractured sects all claiming conflicting interpretations of his word and wars and attrocities committed in his name.

As I put in the original message, either this is evidence that these claimed Gods don't exist, or at the very least is shows that they act in peculiar ways.

You cant say that God desired this. Just because something happens, that does not mean that He is happy it happened. Rather, He let it happen for reasons best known to Himself.

Also, you seem to be forgeting that about the Day of Judgement. From your perspective, there is injustice everywhere and nothing can be done about it. Some one is murdered unjustly and the murder gets away. To you, I assume, this is the end and unjustice has occured and will never be be put right. But this is wrong because on the Day of Judgement every single person will be put the justice. The murder cant run anymore, God will deal with both him and the victim. The victim will be compensated for what happened to him, and murdered will be punished (If God wills).

The same applies to those who do things wrongly in His name and claim to be following His word when they are not.On the Day of Judgement (picture a court case if you will) all the wrong that they committed in the name of God will be exposed and they will dealt with accordingly.

But there wouldn't be. Such people would KNOW the truth and would simply be causing trouble for the sake of causing trouble. There would be no confusion because God would have clearly conveyed his word to each individual and each would understand it perfectly.

But this is not what God wanted. Of course He could do that. The angels, for example, know with out doubt that there is one God and that God is Allah swt, and they obey Him completely. But God did not intend to create another set of angels. He created mankind the way He did for a reason, and that reason is best known to Him.

Furthermore, people before you have made such claims. When the Messengers came to their people, they arrogant rejected them because they did not think that God would send men like themselves, and they asked why didnt God send angels insteads.

I'll look up the reply to this and get back to you inshaallah.

 

[syilla]

Did you know that....traditionally al-quran is not referred by a book...it is being memorised by thousands of people?

lol...i just learned that....

but to get the specific details....i have to listen again the 48 cds.

I have a very bad memory....no wonder in islam having a good memory is highly important.

 

[Malaikah]

It would be more difficult to do the Quran than the Bible I suspect as Islam demands that the Quran is perfect only in arabic, which many of us do not speak. This question is rarely raised by Christians when discussing the KJV bible (not the original language).

It is ok when you have the explanation though, that way the limitations of the language are not a big issue.

You can read the explanation of the Quran here if you wish:
http://www.theholybook.org/en/tafsi...ml?SessionID=a70d0a79fcd9c638135d94f5d4c7e889

The interpretation of the Quran is not an issue in Islam as long as you refer to people of knowledge. Obviously if you go to someone who is not qualified and follows his own desire then youwill hit problems, but there have been many works written explaining the Quran based on the sunnah and these are widely accepted by Muslims as being of the best quality and authenticity.

 

[Pygoscelis]

But, I do know that all of us who believe know we do as a matter of choice. We know our affection is not being taken by force, we have to give it freely and have the right to deny the Existance of God(swt). We know we have to search to find God(swt) and that even then we are faced with many trials and hardships.

You believe as a matter of choice or you obey/worship/follow as a matter of choice? Is there not an important difference? Your affection is not taken by force just because you know something.

And not all of us are CAPABLE of believing in deciding what we believe. I can not for example decide to believe that there are invisible people standing next to me right now or that the earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle and all space photos are faked. I suspect that you couldn't choose to believe those things either.

 

[Malaikah]

And not all of us are CAPABLE of believing in deciding what we believe. I can not for example decide to believe that there are invisible people standing next to me right now or that the earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle and all space photos are faked. I suspect that you couldn't choose to believe those things either.

Okay... but you have good reasons not to believe in these things. But you do not have a good reason to reject the Quran. Can you see the difference?

 

[IzakHalevas]

G-d gave you eyes, heart, soul, body, life, and you utterly reject him, and some even worship stones and wood, yet G-d is the evil one?

Is your father evil when he punishes you for doing the wrong thing?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Okay... but you have good reasons not to believe in these things. But you do not have a good reason to reject the Quran. Can you see the difference?

I don't know the Quran well enough to say but I suspect that even if I did I could still not see the difference. Replace Quran with Bible in the above and I could say that I certainly can't see the difference. Fantastic claims are fantastic claims. But that isn't the subject of this thread.

 

[syilla]

you have goood reasons...

but why don't you try to believe in Allah subhanahuwata'ala for one day...and practise what muslim do...and see what happen.

you will not lose anything..

Just for one day...and update us after that...

 

[rav]

It would be more difficult to do the Quran than the Bible I suspect as Islam demands that the Quran is perfect only in arabic, which many of us do not speak.

the only way to read the tanakh is in hebrew. the translations into english were made to be 'poetic' and there are numerous words in hebrew which ahve no explanation in english.

 

[Pygoscelis]

rav, I suspect that is a Jewish view? Most Christians I have met, including the hardcore fundamentalist type have told me that the KJV is the perfect word of God. My mere suggestion that it may have lost something in translation is usually taken by these people as at best an error and at worst an insult.

 

[Woodrow]

You believe as a matter of choice or you obey/worship/follow as a matter of choice? Is there not an important difference? .

In my case I would say both. It was my choice to seek out reasons to believe in God(swt) Oddly, I did not find him until I had decided he probably did not exist or if he did exist, he had no interset in me. I choose Muslim strict by choice. I was not born in a Muslim Family. I did not meet any body who was Muslim until I was in my 20s. Nobody ever asked me to become a Muslim.

Your affection is not taken by force just because you know something.

Not just because we know something, but because it ends our need to question our affection and to be aware that we truly have reason to give it.

And not all of us are CAPABLE of believing in deciding what we believe.

We all have limited perceptions and some have better eysight and hearing than others. But, we do have the free choice to seperate what we find to be true in regards to our own limitations.

I can not for example decide to believe that there are invisible people standing next to me right now or that the earth is perched on the back of a giant turtle and all space photos are faked. I suspect that you couldn't choose to believe those things either.

I agree with you there.

 

[Malaikah]

rav, I suspect that is a Jewish view? Most Christians I have met, including the hardcore fundamentalist type have told me that the KJV is the perfect word of God. My mere suggestion that it may have lost something in translation is usually taken by these people as at best an error and at worst an insult.

That is odd, the introduction to the KJV itself says that it is not perfect and needs revision and that it has many shortcomings!

Even in this forum christians have used translation errors as an excuse, for example, they deny that the word 'begotten' is really what the original greek meant.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I have yet to see Christians arguing that we must study the Bible in the original greek and hebrew. It would be an interesting argument that would carry some weight though, as it would exclude Christianity from that part of my original post in this thread.

 

[IzakHalevas]

rav, I suspect that is a Jewish view? Most Christians I have met, including the hardcore fundamentalist type have told me that the KJV is the perfect word of God.

The KJV was given poetic liscense when translated into english. Many of the verses are changed and words changed when the Hebrew clearly states comething else to make it "more readable" in english.