Homosexuality
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Okay the big argument seems to be that people choose to be gay. That is actually a very popular myth but it is not true. People not choose to be gay and most of those who are gay don't get any money out of it. I know because I happen to have a gay brother. He had to leave home with next to no money because he would not be accepted. And then there is Bishop Gene Robinson who makes no money from his being gay. His life would be so much easier if he had not been gay. He was happily married. On his consecration as a Bishop he had to wear a bullet proof vest and he gets death threats. In fact this is a common story with gays who marry hoping to either turn off the gay urges, who think if they are with someone of the opposite sex. They often suffer pain and rejection when they come out and face their families and NO money.
Homosexuality was greatly frowned upon in the past because no children came from it. But this is a time period when there was always a high risk of the human race going extinct. For example, during the 1st century AD, women had to have at least 5 children each to keep the population stable. Clearly this is not a factor today.
As for homosexuals have uncontrollable urges or such. We seem to focus so much on sex crimes commited by gays and tend to forget far more are committed by heterosexuals. It is just so much more scandalous when it happens to be a gay man. We look at gays as uncontrollable, full of lust and desire, sleeping with anyone they can when in fact many of them have monogamous relations with one person.
As for God created man and woman. Here is a thought. Did God not factor in overpopulation. This is something else on my mind. We always use the excuse of procreation in condeming gays. No children come of it. Man and woman. It is almost as if God created us with our own timer to self destruction. We continue to breed at this rate we are seriosly at risk. People have kids with no thought just God created man and woman, sex is for procreation.
Yes, yes yes! I was born a Muslim! What do you want? A letter from a priest that says I have not been nor have ever been baptized? I was born a Muslim, briefly considered atheism in college, settled on agnosticism for a while and only briefly study Christianity for the last few months, not my entire life! And even when I initially started to study Christianity it was far from being for conversion! In fact the idea that I MIGHT be considering it terrifies me. Islam is a part of who I am, my family are all Muslim. It was curiosity. When I did not understand some things I stopped by an Episcopal church, I did not even know what Episcopal meant at the time. Now and then I stop by to talk to a priest there, who has done or said nothing to try and convert me. He has been kinder and more willing to answer my questions about his faith than most Muslims have been even though I am not a member of his faith and he has nothing to gain from me.
Homosexuality was greatly frowned upon in the past because no children came from it. But this is a time period when there was always a high risk of the human race going extinct. For example, during the 1st century AD, women had to have at least 5 children each to keep the population stable. Clearly this is not a factor today.
As for homosexuals have uncontrollable urges or such. We seem to focus so much on sex crimes commited by gays and tend to forget far more are committed by heterosexuals. It is just so much more scandalous when it happens to be a gay man. We look at gays as uncontrollable, full of lust and desire, sleeping with anyone they can when in fact many of them have monogamous relations with one person.
As for God created man and woman. Here is a thought. Did God not factor in overpopulation. This is something else on my mind. We always use the excuse of procreation in condeming gays. No children come of it. Man and woman. It is almost as if God created us with our own timer to self destruction. We continue to breed at this rate we are seriosly at risk. People have kids with no thought just God created man and woman, sex is for procreation.
Yes, yes yes! I was born a Muslim! What do you want? A letter from a priest that says I have not been nor have ever been baptized? I was born a Muslim, briefly considered atheism in college, settled on agnosticism for a while and only briefly study Christianity for the last few months, not my entire life! And even when I initially started to study Christianity it was far from being for conversion! In fact the idea that I MIGHT be considering it terrifies me. Islam is a part of who I am, my family are all Muslim. It was curiosity. When I did not understand some things I stopped by an Episcopal church, I did not even know what Episcopal meant at the time. Now and then I stop by to talk to a priest there, who has done or said nothing to try and convert me. He has been kinder and more willing to answer my questions about his faith than most Muslims have been even though I am not a member of his faith and he has nothing to gain from me.
Mikayeel
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People dont nessecarly choose to be gay. Althought some do and u can't deny it. The reason they are gay is something i think no one can explain, not even the person him self. But that doesnt give him the right to act on his desires, just like a person who claims to have desires for animals does not have to act upon these desires.
UmmSqueakster
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I never said the urges were uncontrollable. Allah (swt) gives us the power to overcome the burdens on us, if we dig deep and rely on Him. I have urges to kill myself, but I don't act on them. That doesn't make the urges go away, I just learn to control them.
brotherinfaith
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if you were born as a muslim and you talk about gays in such defending way i am really sorry for you.we are not here to tell god when he can create and when he can't and even if there is no children homosexuality is still a crime and if you read the coran you will find that god detroyed the people lut because they commited that crime and god's laws in this life never change.god says about man '' he sat and example for us and he forgot about his creation '' as god created you and gave you all you have he can create billions of people like you who will disbelieve and still give them all what they need that's why he is our god
Malaikah
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SubhanAllah! Excellent point - Allah alone is the true legislator, what He says goes, even if we can't make sense of it! We are in no position to tell God what is right and what is wrong!:thumbs_up
So basically it is blind faith that it is wrong.
Did not God give us eyes to see and minds to think? To see that the world has changed, that the reasons against Homosexuality are not valid? Did he not give us minds to consider so many things that can be changed because the world has changed? Did he not give us the ability to reason or is it simply we must follow blindly and our ability to think and wonder for ourselves is in fact a curse as it leads to doubt and uncertainty?
Did not God give us eyes to see and minds to think? To see that the world has changed, that the reasons against Homosexuality are not valid? Did he not give us minds to consider so many things that can be changed because the world has changed? Did he not give us the ability to reason or is it simply we must follow blindly and our ability to think and wonder for ourselves is in fact a curse as it leads to doubt and uncertainty?
'Abd-al Latif
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Allah (god) says:
"And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: 'Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?
Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)'"
[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]
EDIT:
May I also add, there is no nation who recieved a punishment that was worse then the punishment of people of Lot i.e. those who committed sodomy.
"And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: 'Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?
Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)'"
[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]
EDIT:
May I also add, there is no nation who recieved a punishment that was worse then the punishment of people of Lot i.e. those who committed sodomy.
Last edited:
See here. Not one of my points is raised. You simply say God said so, God destroyed Lot. I thought this was one of the things we looked down on the Christians for! That they take things blindly, that they are told not to ask questions! Am I wrong for wanting to know why? I am doing what is encouraged by Islam and you condemn me for it!
mohammed_alim
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i think u shud shud do sum research of ur own, all ur answers r out there. there is 100's of islamic books to read on this topic and if u dnt find ur answer there, just simply look in the quran. my opinion is gay n lesbians n all dat stuff is 100% haram. y? because its common sence. its tells us in tha quran our proof is there! wat more proof do we need u cant have it both ways. theres a rite path n a wrong path to everything. oh man!!! its so hard to explain things wat am thinkin in my head is more clearer than what am puttin in words if dat makes sence. bt yeh if sumthin is haram n it tells us in the quran dat its haram then its haram y shud we question it. use ur head
I'm sorry for your brother, sounds liek he has gone through a rough time. Mind if I ask how he came about turning to homosexuality ?
Nobody here is condemning you lol, like I said before you obviously didn't read my post, you've made a bold step into these forums accusing muslims of being ignorant when you yourself are ignorant to our faith lol! I like to call this irony, try to keep an open mind. Someone has already quoted what happened to 'Lut', so I don't understand where your confusion is, please expand on this maybe I can addess it for you.
What exactly do you desire, that the quaran be changed to accommodate gay muslims ? It wouldn't be Allah's law then would it ? It would be our law ? Yes Islam does encourage diverse thinking, exploration etc but ask yourself what does that entail ? I'm quite sure it doesn't include sexuality as that's a given, but addresses intellectual avenues such as science, law, politics etc.
Your argument seems very linear. Procreation isn't the only reason a woman exists. To be blunt, a woman's purpose/role FAR outweighs a gay partners. Companionship, Love, Stability, Comfort and the list goes on.
Honestly, I find this post useless because it pales in comparison to the atrocious treatment other caste's, religions and nations suffer. People are being killed in mass for their faith, skin colour and lineage and you're worried about an extreme niche of people who think they have it bad becuase 1 or 2 people look the other way ? Realise this, you care about your friend and brother...you couldn't care any less about anyone else outside of your social circle. That is the difference between a homosexual and muslim. It is our faith and duty to give to the poor, Zakat, support one another and bring true world peace. What have homosexual's done to contribute to the world ?
Exactly.
Usman
God ordered you to follow his commands. He said don't do homosexual acts. He didn't ask you to argue with him.
And, no, Muslims don't criticise christians for obeying Gods order, but they believe they disobeyed God's order by rejecting the Qur'an.
You seem confused on the matter of Islam, and religions as a whole.
ATR, what I've realised is that Allah (SWT) has given us all some kind of challenge. I personally consider homosexuality as a neurobiological disorder.
I have Asperger syndrome. That is my gift as well as my curse. 20-25% of the world's population has some kind of neurobiological disorder, mental disorder, or mental illness. The rest has some kind of physical disorder. Most people don't realise that they have this problem or that. How you overcome it is the challenge. Homosexuality is a challenge for some.
Problem is, most people don't question their own faith and follow all norms blindly. I question everything. I came to this conclusion.
Peace.
I have Asperger syndrome. That is my gift as well as my curse. 20-25% of the world's population has some kind of neurobiological disorder, mental disorder, or mental illness. The rest has some kind of physical disorder. Most people don't realise that they have this problem or that. How you overcome it is the challenge. Homosexuality is a challenge for some.
Problem is, most people don't question their own faith and follow all norms blindly. I question everything. I came to this conclusion.
Peace.
Playwright
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Life isn't really fair to some.
When i first felt something for a person of the same sex as me, i denied it. It came back stronger. I ignored it again.Ive now come to terms with the fact that its not going away
When i first felt something for a person of the same sex as me, i denied it. It came back stronger. I ignored it again.Ive now come to terms with the fact that its not going away
Liberty
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Oh that overused phrase!!
Any other boys names that rhyme with eve cos Steve's getting old lol.
Anyway my best friend is gay & he's Christian.
It is a constant struggle & I support him completely.
Love the sinner, hate the sin!
& anyway, we all sin, let's not be biased against certain ones.
I'll let God be the judge.
Liberty
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=) Take it day by day bro & remember you're not alone in this fight.
Also being gay is not a disease, there is no prescibed cure, it is hard work and not a walk in the park. I really dislike people degrading gays >.<
It's similar to discrimination against blacks in 1960s US.