homosexuality

[AnonymousPoster]

I am a Muslim and believe that gay marriage is 100% haram but when I tell that to some of my non-muslim friends they answer along the lines of:

1) You dont have the right to tell another person with who they can or cannot be in love with.

2) How can you HATE them..they are just two people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other (I do not HATE gay/lesbian people but if you dont support them, it is assumed you hate them).

3) Islam is not the right religion cuz it advocates hatred against gays/lesbians.

The above-mentioned 3 reasons are the ones I find the most hardest to argue against.

Now I KNOW the reasons why homosexuality is not supported in Islam but I do not know how to say it to my friends in a way that they understand.

please help. :hmm:

 

[Alpha Dude]

1: You can retort by saying if they truly believe that, then they should have no problem excusing the behaviour of some paedophiles that claim love for their victims or other people that fall in love with ludicrous things like fairground rides.

The issue here is that love does not override the law. Paedophiles cannot use their love as an excuse. Likewise with muslims that claim to follow Islam.

Non-muslims are not obliged to follow Islamic rulings. Once they convert, then they have to, otherwise, nobody is forcing them.

2,3: We hate the act, not the people. The Prophet Lot Alaihe Salam would spend all his efforts trying to convince the people of his community not to be gay and to that end would even offer his own daughters for marriage. If it was a case of hating the people, he wouldn't have offered his daughters.

 

[Grofica]

Christanity also condones Homosexuality... its just its become so common place its "dont ask dont tell". and people tend to look the other way.... sort of thing...

but its in the bible also.... i would not retort back with the pedophile thing... that sort of offensive and its the job of everyone to teach in a good way... that would just rub people the wrong way...

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

1 Corinthians 1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

God spoke plainly on the matter when He said, "There shall be no ***** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel" (Deuteronomy 23:17).

The ***** and the sodomite are in the same category. A sodomite was not an inhabitant of Sodom nor a descendant of an inhabitant of Sodom, but a man who had given himself to homosexuality, the perverted and unnatural vice for which Sodom was known. Let us look at the passages in question:

But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house around, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. (Genesis 19:4-8)

The Hebrew word for "know" in verse 5 is yada`, a sexual term. It is used frequently to denote sexual intercourse (Genesis 4:1, 17, 25; Matthew 1:24, 25). The message in the context of Genesis 19 is clear. Lot pled with the men to "do not so wickedly." Homosexuality is wickedness and must be recognized as such else there is no hope for the homosexual who is asking for help to be extricated from his perverted way of life.

there are a few more passages on there that might help you a little but you get the gist...


All this information can be found on http://bible.org/article/homosexuality-christian-perspective

 

[marwen]

homosexuality endangeres the survival of the human kind.
In my humble point of view, homosexuals are not humans. You know a human is one of tow things : either a male or a female. a homosexual is neither a male nor a femal, he is not a human, or he tries to not be a human.

 

[sully]

From my experience, the best thing you can say is that you dont hate gay ppl but you disapprove of the 'act' - e.g. sodomy. Sodomy usually brings about diseases like Aids but that can be questioned since some peeps say it was a man made disease used to wipe out nations!oh:

You can throw 'Allah made Adam for Eve, not Steve' but then again, bro, you may get some wise asses talking to you about Male Panda's...its a long story...!

Best thing to do, is look at this with an open mind - get ALL the viewpoints and DONT get flustered if they dont see your point. sometimes you need to talk in their lingo...

 

[Alpha Dude]

i would not retort back with the pedophile thing... that sort of offensive and its the job of everyone to teach in a good way... that would just rub people the wrong way...

It is possible they might take it the wrong way. They'd probably reply by saying something like 'well, homosexuals are consenting people'.

I think the best thing you can say for 1. is that once a person becomes a muslim, then it is incumbent on them to follow Islam in its entirety. We follow the laws of Islam and don't go on our whims and desires.

Think about it this way:

As a muslim, I would only go to another muslim and tell him it is wrong according to Islam to act on homosexual desires.

I would not approach a non-muslim person that indulges in gay activities and say 'what you are doing is wrong and most heinous'. I would have to prove Islam is correct for them in the first place. Only then would they accept to follow its laws.

It's a different case for muslims, since they already claim to accept Islam. We then have a right and a duty to remind them that they are going against what they believe in.

 

[Alpha Dude]

1) You dont have the right to tell another person with who they can or cannot be in love with.

If your friend is a vegetarian and you see him eating meat, you would remind him that it goes against what he supposedly believes in.

You wouldn't go to a non-vegetarian and tell him to stop eating meat, however.

Same principle with muslims reminding other muslims about the impermissibility of homosexuality. It would be silly reminding non-muslims when they don't accept Allah as an authority in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that having gay 'thoughts and feelings' in and of themself are not a sin (if they realise that these are things that must be fought against). It is acting upon them that incurs sin.

 

[Ramadhan]

I am a Muslim and believe that gay marriage is 100% haram but when I tell that to some of my non-muslim friends they answer along the lines of:

what are they? christians, catholics, jews?
ALL abrahamic faiths outlaw homosexual acts, and I am pretty sure so are other world's major religions.
If they support homosexuality, tell them to read again their scriptures.
It is their whims, desires and emotions that make them pro-gay, and they are not following the teachings of their own religions.

 

[KAding]

1: You can retort by saying if they truly believe that, then they should have no problem excusing the behaviour of some paedophiles that claim love for their victims

The issue here is that love does not override the law. Paedophiles cannot use their love as an excuse. Likewise with muslims that claim to follow Islam.

To be honest, I would not advice comparing homosexuals with child molesters, it generally doesn't go over very well with people who consider homosexuals "normal". Sure, not all pedophiles are child molesters, but most people will fail to make the distinction. Homosexuality is between consenting adults after all, while kids are unable to really give consent.

Non-muslims are not obliged to follow Islamic rulings. Once they convert, then they have to, otherwise, nobody is forcing them.

Yes, as a pro-gay rights and non-Muslim I would say that is the most sensible approach. Just tell them that is your belief, make them feel guilty for trying to force you to believe anything different. Make it about you, not Islam ;D. Just make clear you don't 'hate' the sinner as such. Hate is such a loaded word. Rather, explain that you disapprove of the act and that you aren't alone in that.

 

[cat eyes]

the majority of child molesters are gay i believe i mean All you have to do really is look at the criminals on death row in america :hmm:

any way to the op i think you should be straight and honest with them and say that its dirty and if its so ''natural'' then why did god not make gay lovers in a way so that they can get pregnant if they were ever wanting a child.

Ask them that why is it so many gay people have aids and various other diseases that puts most of them in an early grave

also i always wanted to know this one my self...why on earth gay men dress like women when they are not women???

that for me is the first indication that something is not quite right in there heads

 

[tetsujin]

I am a Muslim and believe that gay marriage is 100% haram but when I tell that to some of my non-muslim friends they answer along the lines of:

1) You dont have the right to tell another person with who they can or cannot be in love with.

2) How can you HATE them..they are just two people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other (I do not HATE gay/lesbian people but if you dont support them, it is assumed you hate them).

3) Islam is not the right religion cuz it advocates hatred against gays/lesbians.

The above-mentioned 3 reasons are the ones I find the most hardest to argue against.

Now I KNOW the reasons why homosexuality is not supported in Islam but I do not know how to say it to my friends in a way that they understand.

please help. :hmm:

You choose to believe in Islam. As a practicing Muslim, you are not allowed to engage in homosexual activities. You can respect other people, you do not have to respect what they do or what they believe. You should expect the same respect in return.



All the best,


Faysal

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

I am a Muslim and believe that gay marriage is 100% haram but when I tell that to some of my non-muslim friends they answer along the lines of:

1) You dont have the right to tell another person with who they can or cannot be in love with.

2) How can you HATE them..they are just two people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other (I do not HATE gay/lesbian people but if you dont support them, it is assumed you hate them).

3) Islam is not the right religion cuz it advocates hatred against gays/lesbians.

The above-mentioned 3 reasons are the ones I find the most hardest to argue against.

Now I KNOW the reasons why homosexuality is not supported in Islam but I do not know how to say it to my friends in a way that they understand.

please help. :hmm:

Tell them that there is no compulsion in religion and that even as Muslims we are not forced to do anything we don't want to as we are created as beings who have been given free will but it is upto us how we live our lives but if we decide to abide by the commands of our lord then we will be eternally successful however if we choose to reject his commands then we do so at our own peril.

Islam does not advocate hate but it advocates what is best for humanity. Homosexuality is contrary to the success of humanity as it promotes deadly sexually transmitted diseases aswell as being contrary to procreation and it actual results in the reduction of the number of humans.

It also goes against the very balance of nature and therefore is unnatural. It also goes against human physiology because a man is meant for a women and not the otherway around therefore it goes against science itself.

It is morally unacceptable and its acceptance will only be to the detriment of humanity and will not benefit it in anyway.

It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women.

We don't hate the people who commit the act but we have the right to hate the act itself which goes against nature, science, morality and the greater good of humanity.



They will have their own reckoning just like we will have ours. But we hate anything which goes against the commands of our lord and we stand firmly by that just like you can stand firmly by whatever you want to believe.


Remember brother when talking to non Muslims then talk to them in the most beautiful of manners using wisdom or tact but stand firm to your belief and remember that you will never be able to please everyone.

You must realise that you can only inform them as best you can and that ONLY Allah can guide them. So do the best you can to inform them, make dua that Allah guides them and then leave the rest to Allah.

and only Allah guides for we are only informers.

 

[KAding]

the majority of child molesters are gay i believe i mean All you have to do really is look at the criminals on death row in america :hmm:

any way to the op i think you should be straight and honest with them and say that its dirty and if its so ''natural'' then why did god not make gay lovers in a way so that they can get pregnant if they were ever wanting a child.

Ask them that why is it so many gay people have aids and various other diseases that puts most of them in an early grave

also i always wanted to know this one my self...why on earth gay men dress like women when they are not women???

that for me is the first indication that something is not quite right in there heads

I think you have a warped image of homosexuals. The overwhelming majority of gays do not dress up like women. The overwhelming majority do not have AIDS. Nor are gays generally child molesters!

I would not recommend using such arguments when debating with people who support gay rights!

 

[tango92]

tell them its an abomination and an evil way. then tell them gays are the epitome of whats wrong with todays society.

i hate what homosexuality represents, yh lets give gays their rights so we can mask ourselves as fighting opression when we slaughter these muslims

 

[جوري]

I think you have a warped image of homosexuals. The overwhelming majority of gays do not dress up like women. The overwhelming majority do not have AIDS. Nor are gays generally child molesters!

I would not recommend using such arguments when debating with people who support gay rights!

You have surveyed the 'overwhelming' majority to know what reportable or un-reportable diseases they have, whether they like to dress up like broads or have any other forms of psychological problems?

on a separate note to the OP:
we don't approve of homosexuality for the same reasons we don't approve of incestuous relationships or necromania or other acts of sexual deviance. We can't stop people from committing lewd acts, but we neither have to embrace, or accept it. Tolerance doesn't denote approval or espousal of sodomy or other sinful acts and that is really the bottom line of it.

Also there is such a disparate difference between religion and deviant sexual acts, I fail to understand why the ignorant often resort to a comparison between the two?!

pls browse the forum for extensive debates on the topic.