How do we know that the Koran is true?

[ayshayasmin]

i mean how can u compare harry potter too the quran u silly person!!!!! ull get punished too question the quran

 

[Follower]

ayshayasmin- but you can't prove that the Quran remained unchanged from original revelation to today. You do not have the original bones, leaves that the revelations were written on.

There is also the whole issue of Uthmann burning the copies of the Quran. He was trying to correct something- we will never know why. He did a great diservice to the Quran by burning so many copies.

 

[YusufNoor]

Except for the parts where

• it refers to the existence of invisible magical spirits from Arabian mythology (djinn)

•*it claims that the entire world was covered in a flood and a man gathered all the million plus species onto an ark (11:40)

• it refers to the sun's orbit, usually in the same phrase as the moon's orbit, (13:2, 21:33, 36:40) along with places where the sun rises and sets (18:86)—just like most Mesopotamian myths

• it refers to splitting the moon into two pieces (54:1)

• it claims that the stars will "fall"; (81:2) and the lower sky has "lamps" in it (41:12)

• it claims that humans are formed from a "gushing fluid" that comes from between your loins and ribs (86:5)

This is exactly the kind of language you would expect from 7th-century desert nomads.

Of course, Muslims have all kinds of clever ways of interpreting these verses "metaphorically" or whatever so they don't seem as silly as they are—just like Christians interpret the Bible to seem less silly than it is.

I'm also a fan of the part in the Bukhari hadith that talks about Muhammad riding a magical flying donkey, al-Buraq.

Peace Quingu,

i would like to address this point:

This is exactly the kind of language you would expect from 7th-century desert nomads

then Qur'an initially issued a challenge that if you feel that the Qur'an is manmade, then please, by all means make another like it! which it also claims, you CANNOT! the challenge was reduced to 10 Surahs, which you are challenged to produce, which again the Qur'an claims you CANNOT! and lastly, we are at the present challenge: PRODUCE ONE SURAH, if you can, which the Qur'an claims, you CANNOT!

so all you have to do, is produce 1 Surah like in the Qur'an and you will have made your point, and history!

you know the language of the Qur'an is far superior to even the Arabic of it's time and has never been equalled. "Uncle Woodrow", that is Abdullah Muhammad, studied the Qur'an before his reversion, you might want to discuss this with him.

i had heard that we, Muslims, were given Surah Al Fatiha as a gift which no other Ummah was given. at first glance it seems similar to the "Christian" Our Father, and i have even made the general comparison. i did NOT see how it was superior, i accepted that it was, but didn't know why.

then i listened to a series of lectures by Jamaaluddin Zarabozo on Al Fatihah [and i am actually only on disc 12] which attempts to show the merits of the Quranic Arabic. my wife is much younger than me and has less patience than i do, for the most part. she has listened to many lengthy lectures by Anwar Al Awlaki and usually has to force herself to the end and then will not listen to it again. she's annoyed with me when i listen to my Mufti Menk over and over [and over] again! however, she listens to this lecture EVERY SINGLE DAY and has completed more times than i know of!

here is the series:

http://www.kalamullah.com/al-fatihah.html

at the least, you should understand that if you have only read the Qur'an in English, you have not read the Qur'an! you are missing meaning and shades of meaning upon shades of meaning and as well as beauty!

there were Arabs that converted to Islam after only hearing a few verses!

by the way, even as an atheist, you must believe in something, even if it is simply luck or fate.

so when can we expect our surah?

 

[alcurad]

Except for the parts where

• it refers to the existence of invisible magical spirits from Arabian mythology (djinn)

•*it claims that the entire world was covered in a flood and a man gathered all the million plus species onto an ark (11:40)

• it refers to the sun's orbit, usually in the same phrase as the moon's orbit, (13:2, 21:33, 36:40) along with places where the sun rises and sets (18:86)—just like most Mesopotamian myths

• it refers to splitting the moon into two pieces (54:1)

• it claims that the stars will "fall"; (81:2) and the lower sky has "lamps" in it (41:12)

• it claims that humans are formed from a "gushing fluid" that comes from between your loins and ribs (86:5)

This is exactly the kind of language you would expect from 7th-century desert nomads.

Of course, Muslims have all kinds of clever ways of interpreting these verses "metaphorically" or whatever so they don't seem as silly as they are—just like Christians interpret the Bible to seem less silly than it is.

I'm also a fan of the part in the Bukhari hadith that talks about Muhammad riding a magical flying donkey, al-Buraq.

that is quite funny Qnigu, all the time in LI and you still, meh nevermind, I'm too busy to answer this, if it hadn't been answered several dozen times already that is.

 

[Qingu]

Qingu- If there is a "contradiction" in the Bible further, deeper study into the "contradiction" reveals a truer, richer story. The "contradiction" becoming more information for the one with an open heart.

Every religious person says this about problems in their holy text. Muslims say it about the points I brought up in the Quran. A Hare Krishna I met said it when I brought up the nonsensical stories in the Mahabharata about magical archery.

In the same way, Harry Potter fans can also engage in "deeper study" to explain how the astrology classroom is on the third floor in Book 2 but on another floor in Book 3*, and I'm sure the elaborate excuses they invent to explain this "seeming contradiction" reveals a truer, richer story as well.

*(note: I've forgotten the exact details of the classroom contradiction in HP, so excuse me if I'm misrepresenting).

Various translation can also help you decide if the message is truely a contradiction, or a human error.

Another common excuse for problems in the Bible. And if it's not a translation problem, you can always just blame it on a "scribal error" that miscopied the original, divinely inspired text. Excuses, excuses, excuses....

 

[Qingu]

then Qur'an initially issued a challenge that if you feel that the Qur'an is manmade, then please, by all means make another like it! which it also claims, you CANNOT! the challenge was reduced to 10 Surahs, which you are challenged to produce, which again the Qur'an claims you CANNOT! and lastly, we are at the present challenge: PRODUCE ONE SURAH, if you can, which the Qur'an claims, you CANNOT!

so all you have to do, is produce 1 Surah like in the Qur'an and you will have made your point, and history!

you know the language of the Qur'an is far superior to even the Arabic of it's time and has never been equalled. "Uncle Woodrow", that is Abdullah Muhammad, studied the Qur'an before his reversion, you might want to discuss this with him.

With all due respect, Yusuf, this has always struck me as an incredibly silly argument.

You are claiming that the Quran is so perfect and awesome that nobody could write something better than the Quran. Therefore, this is evidence that the Quran is perfect and awesome.

The problem is, how on earth do you determine if something is "better-written" than the Quran? I have not read the Quran in Arabic, but I've read it in English and I don't think it's beautiful or well-written at all. I think it's repetitive and childish. Many people who have read the Quran in Arabic have a similarly low opinion of the book.

Of course, you'll just dismiss these opinions because "Allah has blocked our heart" or something. So your argument is entirely circular. The Quran is the best book ever because people who think the Quran is the best book ever say it's the best book ever. Do you really think this argument is going to convince someone like me?

at the least, you should understand that if you have only read the Qur'an in English, you have not read the Qur'an! you are missing meaning and shades of meaning upon shades of meaning and as well as beauty!

there were Arabs that converted to Islam after only hearing a few verses!

I've listened to the Quran in Arabic. I didn't understand it, of course. I think Arabic is a beautiful language to look at, but frankly it's kind of an ugly language to listen to. Maybe if it was spoken in Afrikaans? Now there's a pretty-sounding language.

by the way, even as an atheist, you must believe in something, even if it is simply luck or fate.

I believe in a largely deterministic universe—I guess you could call that fate.

so when can we expect our surah?

I didn't write this—it comes from the Nasadiya hymn of the Rig Veda, a Hindu scripture dating from 1000 B.C.—but I think it's a lot more beautiful and compelling than anything I've read in the Quran:

There was neither non-existence nor existence then.
There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond.
What stirred?
Where?
In whose protection?
Was there water, bottlemlessly deep?

There was neither death nor immortality then.
There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day.
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse.
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning,
with no distinguishing sign, all this was water.
The life force that was covered with emptiness,
that One arose through the power of heat.

Desire came upon that One in the beginning,
that was the first seed of mind.
Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom
found the bond of existence and non-existence.

Their cord was extended across.
Was there below?
Was there above?
There were seed-placers, there were powers.
There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above.

Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced?
Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whence this creation has arisen
– perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not –
the One who looks down on it,
in the highest heaven, only He knows
or perhaps He does not know.

Maybe you don't think it's as pretty as the Quran (different strokes for different folks!). But then—according to your logic—I could make the argument that it's because you're missing out on the divine shades of meaning by not reading it in the original Sanskrit! (Do you see now why the "original Arabic" argument isn't convincing?)

 

[KashifB]

La'natullah ...

 

[Qingu]

Eh, mock all you like.
To us our religion, to you yours. (or nonreligion, should I say, as atheists seem so adamant to stress that atheism is not a religion)

I think you are referencing probably my favorite verse from the Quran ("unbeliever, you will never believe what I believe, and I will never believe what you believe ... you have your way of life and I have mine").

But then something has always bothered me about this verse. It's tolerant and respectful, which is good. But it's also sort of close-minded. I like to think that it's possible that I could be convinced to believe in Islam, or another religion. It's probably not going to happen, but I'm certainly open to being convinced. And I think everyone should at least be open to the possibility that their religion or worldview could be wrong.

That said, crayon, I apologize if I have come off as disrespectful of "mocking." That was not my intent—I'm simply responding to the arguments put forth on here.

 

[crayon]

That's actually not so great a translation of it, a better one is:

"Say: O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship;
Nor worship ye that which I worship.
And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. "

This one has no "never".
It's always possible for one to change one's beliefs, but I guess these verses talk about the present, what's currently going on, which is that we do not and will not worship what you do, nor do you or will you worship what we do.

No worries, peace.

 

[aysegul]

I think you are referencing probably my favorite verse from the Quran ("unbeliever, you will never believe what I believe, and I will never believe what you believe ... you have your way of life and I have mine").

But then something has always bothered me about this verse. It's tolerant and respectful, which is good. But it's also sort of close-minded. I like to think that it's possible that I could be convinced to believe in Islam, or another religion. It's probably not going to happen, but I'm certainly open to being convinced. And I think everyone should at least be open to the possibility that their religion or worldview could be wrong.

That said, crayon, I apologize if I have come off as disrespectful of "mocking." That was not my intent—I'm simply responding to the arguments put forth on here.

Yes everyone should at least be open to the possibility that .....If we consider ,we were born in a christian family,would we say ''This is the right religion''without searching=?This would be narrow minded....Even ın ıslam ..
Yes as for me ı was born in muslım family,but nevertheless ı searched WHy am ı in this religion ?Why not the others?etc.
After reading Quran All seems satisfactory to me.honestly ı didnt search for a miracle etc...So I m happy If you believe in One God,Just ask for help from Him!Help will find you !
That so!

 

[Vito]

With all due respect, Yusuf, this has always struck me as an incredibly silly argument.

You are claiming that the Quran is so perfect and awesome that nobody could write something better than the Quran. Therefore, this is evidence that the Quran is perfect and awesome.

The problem is, how on earth do you determine if something is "better-written" than the Quran? I have not read the Quran in Arabic, but I've read it in English and I don't think it's beautiful or well-written at all. I think it's repetitive and childish. Many people who have read the Quran in Arabic have a similarly low opinion of the book.

I guess the many people who convert every year don't find it as silly as the 'many' people who read it and disregard it.

 

[Qingu]

I guess the many people who convert every year don't find it as silly as the 'many' people who read it and disregard it.

Obviously not.

Likewise, the many people who convert to Mormonism each year don't find the book of Mormon as silly as those who disregard it.

The many people who convert to Scientology each year don't find Dianetics as silly as those who dismiss it as science fiction nonsense.

My point here is that "the Quran is so beautiful so it must be true" isn't really a good argument, because not everyone thinks it's beautiful.

 

[aysegul]

Obviously not.

Likewise, the many people who convert to Mormonism each year don't find the book of Mormon as silly as those who disregard it.

The many people who convert to Scientology each year don't find Dianetics as silly as those who dismiss it as science fiction nonsense.

My point here is that "the Quran is so beautiful so it must be true" isn't really a good argument, because not everyone thinks it's beautiful.

Iın some ways it is true... we dont believe in Quran for being beautifully written ,we believe in it for having truths in it....And rhyming is magnificant!This can not be denied...For instance:there is a beautifully written poem in English,rhyming is perfect.But when it is translated to another language this ryhming dipeppears.. like being in Arabic..Quran has a good rhyming in Arabic.But not in english...When it is translated...

And Allah says in fact indicates that in Holy Quran :

This is not a poem this is an advice...He wants to say ı didnt send this Quran as a book,bu for finding and making you know me !

 

[Whatsthepoint]

You don't, you just have to believe. There's some evidence, like with so many other holy books, but nothing conclusive, so in the end, you have believe it.

 

[Trumble]

at the least, you should understand that if you have only read the Qur'an in English, you have not read the Qur'an! you are missing meaning and shades of meaning upon shades of meaning and as well as beauty!

I'm sure that's true, and I've always found Woodrow's comments on the subject very interesting (not to mention rather more convincing than alleged lack of contradictions, 'science', and so forth). However, while I can never really know if or until I ever learn Arabic I am concious that exactly the same of works in other ancient languages. Including, incidently, the NT gospels which in Greek include much poetic patterning integrated into the prose. I'm not at all sure that could be replicated by any scholar today. All of that is lost in translation(*).


(*)In passing, incidently - if you will forgive a very quick diversion off topic - I'd point out that while that patterning is of distinctly Hebraic style, it only really 'works' in Greek. It is very strong evidence, despite claims to the contrary, that the gospels were written by persons familiar with Hebrew literary style, but IN Greek (not Hebrew or Aramaic).

 

[alcurad]

the qur'an is neither a song, nor a piece of poetry,it's main purpose is not aesthetics, rather guidance. it is delivered in an aesthetically 'sound' way,although that is mostly noted by Arabic speakers..

 

[Mustapha@]

the way in which the Qur'an is represented to humanity proves that it's the truth. we can say that from its signs...including Miracles...scientific discoveries...the style of language that challenged the best speakers of Arabic" Quraysh" at that time...the moral codes...wisedom...Allah says:

"We have sent down to thee Manifest Signs(ayat); and none reject them but those who are perverse" (Qur'an, 002:099)

and another sign is the preservation of the Qur'an till our days now and without changing a single word...in the past and nowadays tens of thousands Muslims all over the world memorize it by heart...Allah say on one His verses:

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)" (Qur'an, 015:009)

I think that this preservation that we see now back up this verse...so the promise of Allah is kept and it will always be till the day of judgement...
this is why we say that the Qur'an is the true words of Allah, the only Creator


peace be with you all

 

[Qingu]

and another sign is the preservation of the Qur'an till our days now and without changing a single word...in the past and nowadays tens of thousands Muslims all over the world memorize it by heart...Allah say on one His verses:

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)" (Qur'an, 015:009)

I think that this preservation that we see now back up this verse...so the promise of Allah is kept and it will always be till the day of judgement...
this is why we say that the Qur'an is the true words of Allah, the only Creator

Why would the fact that a text is well-preserved by evidence that it's true?

The original text of Harry Potter may well be identical to a copy made 1,600 years from now. But just because Harry Potter is well-preserved doesn't mean Harry Potter is true.

 

[KashifB]

A Muslim knows in his heart that the Quran is true. Just as we know Allah subhanahu wata'ala is the one and only God and the Quran is Allah's subhanahu wata'ala words.

We don't need evidence to believe in these things.

 

[Mustapha@]

Why would the fact that a text is well-preserved by evidence that it's true?

The original text of Harry Potter may well be identical to a copy made 1,600 years from now. But just because Harry Potter is well-preserved doesn't mean Harry Potter is true.

first of all who told you that Harry Potter is well preserved? you have to show evidence for that....as for any Muslim can show you that the Qur'an is well preserved....one thing i want to tell you dude...Atheists think that they are special...they depend on their brain to reach what's beyong their thinking...they do not know that the Human mind is limited...if the Human mind is unlimited we would find a cure to death...could you prevent yourself from dying?