Selam aleykum
As I am writing this post, it has become very lengthy, so I'll suggest a way for you to
"short circuit" the debate so you won't have to reply to ever single line. It's very simple. Here is
tafsir ibn kathir. Now what I suggest is, pick a verse from the Quran, any verse, whichever you'd like. And look up the explanation of Ibn Kathir. Then tell me, whether your had an alternative interpretation. If you can convince me that your interpretation is better, you'll have me proven wrong. If you cannot, then perhaps you should consider whether or not you're biting off more then you can chew, and whether you are really that capable of understanding the Qur'an without following the proper rules of tafsir.
Let me start by giving a copy pastes from The introduction of Tefsir ibn kathir. I will address your arguments after that.
All praise is due to Allah, Who started His Book by saying,
‘All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all that exists. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. The Owner of the Day of Recompense’ (AI-Fatihah 1:2-4)
and Who began His creation with the Hamd (His praise and appreciation), by saying,
‘All praise and thanks be to Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, and originated the darkness and the light; yet those who disbelieve hold others equal to their Lords’ (Al An`am 6:1),
and ended it with the Hamd, by saying, after mentioning the destination of the people of Paradise and the people of the Fire,
‘(and you will see the angels surrounding the Throne (of Allah), glorifying their Lord with praise. And judgement will be made between them (creatures) with the truth. And it will be said “All Praise and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of all that exists.’ (Az Zumar 39:75)
Similarly,
‘He is Allah, there is no illah except for Him, His is the praise in the beginning and in the end, His is the judgment and to Him you (all) return.’ (Al Qasas 28:70),
All thanks are due to Allah in the beginning and in the end the end, for what He has created and what He shall create. Allah is the One praised for all things, just as the praying person says, "O Allah, Yours is the praise, praise that fills the heavens, the earth and whatever You will after that." [1]
All the thanks are due to Allah Who sent His Messengers, whom He described as,
'Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, "Allāh is witness between me and you. And this Qur’ān was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allāh there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him].' (An-Nisa 4:165)
And ended them with the unlettered, Arabian, Makkan Prophet who guides to the clear straight path. Allah sent the Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him to all of His creation - the Jinns and mankind - from the time that his prophet hood began until the commencement of the Last Hour. Allah said,
‘Say (O Muhammad ) :"O mankind! Verily, I am the Messenger sent to you all by Allah, the One to Whom the dominion of the heavens and the earth belongs. There is no god (worthy of worship) but He. It is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believes in Allah and His Words, and follow him so that you may be guided.’ (Al-A`raf 7:158) and,
‘That by it, I may warn you and whoever it reaches}’ (Al *An`am 6:19).
Therefore, whether one is an Arab or non-Arab, black or red, human or Jinn's, whoever this Quran is conveyed to, it is a warning for them all. This is why Allah said,
'So is one who [stands] upon a clear evidence from his Lord [like the aforementioned]? And a witness from Him follows it, and before it was the Scripture of Moses to lead and as mercy. Those [believers in the former revelations] believe in the Qur’an. But whoever disbelieves in it from the [various] factions – the Fire is his promised destination. So be not in doubt about it. Indeed, it is the truth from your Lord, but most of the people do not believe.’ (Hud 11: 17)
Therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Qur'an among those whom we mentioned, then, according to Allah, the Fire will be then their destination. Allah said,
Then leave Me alone with those who deny this narration (the Ow-'an).
‘We shall gradually punish them from where they perceive not’. (Nun 68:44).
The Messenger of Allah Peace be upon him said, I was sent not to the white and red. Mujahid commented, "Meaning, mankind and the Jinns." [1]
Hence, Muhammad Peace be upon him is the Messenger to all creation, mankind and Jinn, conveying what Allah revealed to him in the Glorious Book that,
‘Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it, (it is) sent down by the Wise, Worthy of all praise.’ (Fussilat 41:42)
Therefore, the scholars are required to elaborate upon the meanings of Allah's Speech and to convey these meanings, providing they seek them from their proper resources. The scholars are required to learn and convey these meanings, just as Allah said,
'And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.’ (Al Imran 3:187) and, Ahmad 5:145.
‘Verily, those who purchase a small gain at the cost of Allah's covenant and their oaths, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter (Paradise). Neither will Allah speak to them nor look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful torment}’ (Al Imran 3:77).
Allah criticized the People of the Scriptures - Jews and Christians - who came before us, for ignoring Allah's Book that was revealed to them, and for acquiring and indulging in the affairs of this life, all the while being distracted from what they were commanded, that is, adhering to Allah's Book.
We Muslims are thus required to refrain from doing what Allah criticized the People of the Scriptures for, and to heed what He commanded us; learning and comprehending the Book of Allah, revealed to us, and to convey all that is in it. Allah said,
‘Has not the time come for the hearts of those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism) to be affected by Allah's Reminder (this Qur'an), and that which has been revealed of the truth, lest they become as those who received the Scripture before, and the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened? And many of them were Fasiqun (the rebellious, the disobedient to Allah) Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its death! Indeed We have made clear the Ayat to you, if you but understand}’ (Al Hadid 57:16-17).
Hence, Allah's mentioning this Ayah (57:17) after the Ayah that preceded it, alerts us to the fact that just as He brings life to the earth after it has died, He also softens the hearts with faith and guidance after they become hard because of committing sins and errors. We ask Allah to grant us this good end, He is Most Kind, Most Generous.
[1] Al-Bukhari, Muslim and others have recorded Hadiths mentioning this supplication.
After this introduction he continues to adress some of the issues that you brought up:
The source of Tafsir
If someone asks about the best methods of Tafsir, we reply that the best method is to explain the Qur'an with the Qur'an itself. What is mentioned in general terms in one place in the Qur'an, is usually explained in another place. When one does not find this easily, he should look to the Sunnah because its purpose is to explain the Qur'an and elaborate upon its meanings. Allah said,
‘Surely, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) [1] the Book (this Quran) in truth that you might judge between men by that which Allah has shown you, so be not a pleader for the treacherous.’ (An Nisa 4:105)
‘And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.’ (An Nahl 16:44) and,
‘This is why the Messenger of Allah said,
‘The Sunnah was a revelation from Allah just as the Qur'an, although it is not recited as the Qur'an is recited.’
So one seeks the Tafsir of the Qur'an with the Qur'an itself and with the Sunnah. If one cannot find the Tafsir in the Qur'an or Sunnah, he should refer to the statements of the Companions, who were the most knowledgeable of Tafsir, for they witnessed the situations and incidents that we did not witness. They also had the deepest comprehension, the most correct knowledge, and the most righteous works. Especially the scholars and leaders among them, such as the Four Rightly Guided Khalifahs and righteous Imams, and `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with them all. Imam Abu Ja'far bin Jarir At-Tabari narrated that 'Abdullah bin Mas`ud said,
"By He other than Whom there is no God, no Ayah in the Book of Allah was revealed but I have knowledge about whom and where it was revealed. Verily, if I know of a person who has more knowledge than me in the Book of Allah that the animals can reach (by travelling on them), I will travel to meet him."
Also, among the scholars of the Companions is the great scholar, the sea of knowledge, 'Abdullah bin `Abbas, the cousin of the Messenger of Allah, and the explainer of the Qur'an, as a result of the blessing of the supplication of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him. The Prophet invoked Allah for the benefit of Ibn `Abbas,
(O Allah! Teach him Fiqh in the religion and interpretation.) [3]
Further, Ibn Jarir At-Tabari reported that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "Yes, Ibn 'Abbas is the interpreter of the Qur'an." This Hadith has an authentic chain of narrators. [4] Ibn Mas`ud died in the thirty-second years of Hijrah and 'Abdullah bin `Abbas lived for thirty-six years after that. Hence, what do you think about the knowledge that Ibn 'Abbas collected after Ibn Mas`ud? Al-A'mash said that Abu Wa'il said, "Ali once appointed 'Abdullah bin `Abbas to lead the Haj season. Ibn 'Abbas gave a speech to the people in which he read and explained Surat Al* Baqarah (according to another narration, Surat An-Nur) in such a way, that if the Romans, Turks and the Daylam heard him, they would have embraced Islam." [5]
This is why the majority of the knowledge Ismail bin `Abdur* Rahman As-Suddi Al-Kabir collected in his Tafsir is from these two men, Ibn Mas`ud and Ibn `Abbas. Yet, he sometimes mentions what they narrated of the Israelite accounts that the Messenger of Allah has allowed when he said,
‘Convey on my behalf, even if it is one Ayah (sentence), and narrate from the Children of Israel, as there is no sin in this. And whoever intentionally lies on me, let him assume his assured seat in the Fire.’
This Hadith from 'Abdullah bin Amr was collected by Al-*Bukhari (Fath Al-Bari 6:572). This is why when `Abdullah bin 'Amr had possession of two books from the People of the Scripture on the Day (battle) of the Yarmuk, he used to narrate what was in- them, because of what he understood of the Hadith that allowed this practice.
Israelite Accounts and Tales
Yet, the Israelite accounts and stories should only be used Not supporting evidence, not as evidence themselves. There are three types of these accounts and tales; a kind that we are `tire is authentic because we have in our religion something that testifies to its truth. The second type is what we know to be false based on what we have. The third is of neither type. Hence, we neither affirm nor deny this type, and we are allowed to narrate it, because of the Hadith that we mentioned. The majority of these are of no religious benefit. 'In instance, an Israelite tale mentions the names and number of the people of the Cave (Al-Kahj) and the color of their dog. They also include the type of tree Moses' staff was made of, the kind of the birds Ibrahim brought back to life by Allah's leave, the part of the cow the dead Israelite was struck with to resurrect him, and the kind of tree that Allah spoke to Moses through. Such examples of things that Allah kept unexplained in the Qur'an do not carry any daily or religious significance for responsible adults.
Tafsir of the Tabi`in
When unable to find the Tafsir in the Qur'an, the Sunnah or with the Companions, the scholars then look to the Tafsir of the Tabi`in, (second generation of Islam) such as Mujahid bin Jabr, who was a wonder himself in Tafsir. Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated that Abban bin Salih said that Mujahid said, "I reviewed the Mushaf with Ibn `Abbas thrice from beginning to end asking him about each and every Ayah in it." Also, Ibn Jarir narrated that Ibn Abi Mulaykah said, "I saw Mujahid asking Ibn `Abbas about the Tafsir of the Quran while he was holding his tablets (papers). Ibn 'Abbas would say to him, Write,' until Mujahid asked him about the entire Tafstr." This is why Sufyan Ath-Thawri said, "If the Tafsir reaches you from Mujahid, then it is sufficient for you." [5]
The scholars of Tafsir also include Sa`id bin Jubayr, 'Ikrimah-the freed servant of Ibn 'Abbas, 'Ata' bin Abi Rabah, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, Masruq bin Al-Ajda`, Sa'Id bin Al*Musayyib, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Qatadah, Ad *Dahhak bin Muzahim and other scholars among the Tabi`in and the following generations.
The statements of these Imams should be mentioned and referred to for Tafsir. We should mention here that these scholars use a variety of meanings for some words, leading those who do not have enough knowledge to think that they conflict, and thus, they consider them opposing statements. This is not correct, for some of these scholars would use variations of the same expressions and some of them would use the precise terms.
These meanings are all the same in the majority of instances, and those who have sound comprehension see this, and Allah is the One Who guides and directs to success.
Tafsir by mere Opinion
It is prohibited to indulge in Tafsir by mere opinion. Muhammad bin Jarir reported that Ibn 'Abbas said that the Prophet Peace be upon him said,
(For this, and the previous quotes, see At-Tabari 1:90-91)
[Whoever explains the Qur'an with his opinion or with what he has no knowledge of, then let him assume his seat in the Fire.]
At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa'i and Abu Dawud also recorded this Hadith. At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan".
Explaining what One has Knowledge of, Silence otherwise
The Salaf used to refrain from explaining what they had no knowledge of. For instance, Ibn Jarir (At-Tabari) reported that Abu Ma'mar said that Abu Bakr As-Siddiq said, " Which land will carry me and which heaven will shade me if I said about Allah's Book that which I have no knowledge of? " [6]
Ibn Jarir also reported that Anas narrated that 'Umar bin Al-Khattab read the Ayah,~{And fruits and Abba (herbage, etc.)
while standing on the Minbar. He then said, " We know the fruit, so what is the Abba?" He then said, "O 'Umar! This is exaggeration." [7]
This statement means that 'Umar briefly wanted to know the exact nature of the Abba, for it was evident - to him - that it is a plant that grows on earth, just as Allah said,
‘And We cause therein the grain to grow. And grapes and clover plants’ (i.e. green fodder for the cattle) (80:27-28).
Ibn Jarir also recorded that Ibn Abi Mulaykah said that Ibn 'Abbas was asked about an Ayah, "That if any of you is asked about, he will indulge in its Tafsir." without hesitation Ibn 'Abbas refused to say anything about it (meaning with his opinion). This narration has an authentic chain of narrators. He also narrated that Ibn Abi Mulaykah said, "A man asked Ibn 'Abbas about, One Day, the space whereof is a thousand years.
Ibn 'Abbas asked him, What is, Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years~?'
The man said, `I only asked you to tell me.' Ibn 'Abbas said, They are two Days that Allah has mentioned in His Book and He has better knowledge of them.' He disliked commenting on the Book of Allah when he had no knowledge about it."
Al-Layth narrated that Yahya bin Sa`id said that Said bin Al-Musayyib used to talk about what he knows of the Qur'an (At-Tabari 1:86). Also, Ayyub, Ibn 'Awn and Hisham Ad*Dastuwa i narrated that Muhammad bin Sirin said, "I asked 'Ubaydah (meaning, As-Salmani ) about an Ayah of the Qur'an and he said,
"Those who had knowledge about the circumstances surrounding revelation of the Qur'an have perished. So fear Allah and seek the right way."
Ash-Sha`bi narrated that Masruq said, "Avoid Tafszr, because it is narration related to Allah." [8]
These authentic narrations from the Companions and the Imams of the Salaf (righteous ancestors) testify to their hesitation to indulge in the Tafsir of what they have no knowledge of. As for those who speak about what they have linguistic and religious knowledge of, then there is no sin in this case. Hence, the scholars and the Imams, including the ones we mentioned, issued statements of Tafsir and spoke about what they had knowledge of, but avoided what they had no knowledge of.
Refraining from indulging in what one has no knowledge of is required of everyone, just as everyone is required to convey the knowledge that they have when they are asked. Allah said,
‘To make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it’ (3:187);
Also, a Hadith narrated through several chains of narrators says, [9]
(Whoever is asked about knowledge that he knows but hid it, will be tied with a muzzle made of fire on the Day of Resurrection.)
References:
[1] was given the Qur'an and its equal with it)), in reference to the Sunnah.
[2] Ahmad 4:131
[3] Fath Al-Bari 1:205.
[4] At-Tabari 1:90.
[5] At-Tabari 1:81.
[6] At-Tabari 1:78.
[7] At-Tabari 24:229.
[8] At Tabari 1:86, for these quotes.
[9] Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, and others.
I hope this somewhat answers your questions already. But allow me to reply somewhat more directly to your arguments. First of all, as already suggested by Ibn Kathir, tafsir is a very serious work, not to be taken lightly. Allah subhana wa ta'ala warns us with the following verse:
YUSUFALI: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
SHAKIR: He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding. (3:7)
A warning not to take lightly.
For instance ... who decided that the hadith was a good way to interpret the quran?
As illustrated in the copy paste from Ibn kathir, it's the Qur'an itself that advices us to do such.
In my philosophy if the Quran is meant to be a timeless, universal book ... it should be self containing -- i.e it should be the only necessary component to read and fully understand islam.
You're jumping to conclusions. Just because it's timeless doesn't mean that it's clear enough for everyone to understand at face value. those are two separate things that don't necessarily go along. Take for example the verse telling us:
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. (2:191)
It's not knowing the context of such verses that brought such a negative light over Islam in the first place! It's not unimaginable that many people would commit acts of terrorism when they don't properly understand such verses, so the context in which they were revealed is very much crucial! And Everyone having his own interpretation is definitely not an option we should encourage.
I the individual should be able to pick it up read it and know what I need to do.
Well I don't know whether you are smart. I cannot and may not judge you. And in a way, that's not really relevant to your argument. However the truth is, a lot of people in this world are not smart. And even smart people, often make mistakes. So again I repeat the importance of scholars pointing the general population in the right direction. Afterall, you wouldn't get medical advice from your plumber, or ask your butcher to draw blueprints for building a house. Scholars are scholars because they have dedicated much time of their lives to better understanding this. Of course everyone can make mistakes. But what vanity makes you assume that your amateuristic (no offense intended) interpretation would be so much better then theirs, who follows strict guidelines and logic?
It seems pretty dumb to me that you would need 100s of scholars analyzing hadith for "clues" when it is all written right there ... WHO said that we need to analyze what the prophet did to understand the Quran?
Let me give you a concrete example, how would you interpret:
O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (66:1)
(In case you are curious, find ibn kathir's tafsir
here.)
I think this illustrates quite nicely how hadeeth can give more insight to verses that nobody would ever understand at face value.
The prophet was great 1500 years later and copy it. It says in the Quran that this is the only book necessary ... so lets just read it and interpret it!
The Qur'an tells un everything indeed, but only in the sense that it lines out the major issues, and gives a general idea. The Qur'an however, does not always give us details. For example, the Qur'an dictates us to pray 5 times a day, but it doesn't tell us exactly how to pray. To find out which is the best way, we are forced to rely on hadeeth. Even if there's a chance that eventually we'll mistakingly accept a false hadeeth. Remember that there's are strict rules when dealing with hadeeth. So is there a guarantee that we'll do everything right? No, but at least we'll get as close as possible. As for your suggestion, if we leave people to interpret it as they want, it would lead to a lot of corruption and people following their preference rather then their moral.
Maybe it was MEANT to be reinterpreted in many different ways .. maybe there IS NO UNIVERSAL definition of Islam but rather it is a religion meant to be interpreted differently by people from different backgrounds and cultures.
Maybe, maybe not. Again, I refer to the verse:
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding. (3:7)
Also the underlying suggestion, that there are several forms of Islam acceptable is even more dangerous. Allah subhana wa ta'ala has spread Islam as a mercy for mankind. His rules are not only a covenant, but they are also a breath of fresh air trying to make our lives easier! Islam is perfection in the sense that it is the most optimal way of life. To suggest that there is more then one optimal form is of course odd. Optimal by definition is the best you can get. If you alter that, you'll always end up worse. Your suggestion opens the door to even more fractions and divisions. And if history has thought us anything it's that dividing up the ummah is a bad idea.
Why does this never come up? Why does everyone assume there is exactly one "fiqh" one jurisprudence, one correct way of living an islamic life????? Why is everyone so conformist stating that "this is wrong ... that is wrong" then their only evidence is some hadith.
Well you do understand that the science of tafsir are different from the science of fiqh? They are two completely different fields of knowledge that follow different rules and guidelines. Of course part of them overlaps, but that doesn't mean you should reach conclusions about one, based on your feelings of the other.
Selam aleykum
