How do you refute khatams?

[Salahudeen]

Salaam, I was just wondering how do you refute some who aknowledges that khatam's aren't from the sunnah and the prophet pbuh never did them but instead they say

"what's wrong with it? it's not like we're doing some bad, we're reading qur'an for the dead person and making dua for the dead person is it bad to read quran?"

and I also had the same issue with some 1 who said

"what's wrong with doing congregational dhikr, so the prophet pbuh and sahaba never did it but whats the problem we're doing something good we're remembering allah and praising him what's the problem?"

they both said we're doing good things i was bamboozled because it didn't matter to them that the prophet pbuh didn't do such things.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Every single act of worship is Haram except for what is found in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Any act of worship that isn't a in Shari'a is an innovation and every innovation is misguidence to the fire.

 

[Sampharo]

Hold on there Abdel-Latif. I disagree.

Khatm Al-Quraan, as in finishing it at intervals, is known in Sunnah and by companions, and established that some companions used to do it every ten nights or so, and some of them in Ramadan used to finish almost every two nights.

As for the duaa after khatm in congregation, it is not established in Sunnah and by the prophet, yes, however Anas Ibn Malik -ra- did it with his family and used to do the duaa in congregation, and many tabein did that afterwards.

As for the duaa after rokoo in taraweeh prayer in Ramadan, Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal said it is Mustahab, and the other three math-habs copied that afterwards and brought it to their acceptance.

Sheikhs Ibn Baz and Otheiman both established that duaa for Khatm Al-Quraan is not established sunnah but is steeped in salaf and is not a bidaa. That includes duaa in Taraweeh prayer at Rukoo.

From that, we take that Scholars differ between majority that says it is good and ok, and a minority that says leaving it is better.

A gentle point here is that the prophet said: "whomever introduces a good habit into Islam, will yield its rewards and the rewards of who works with it". So not all things that are brought into attention is a Bidaa and is haraam. Some scholars define it by actually what you described: "A NEW kind of worship". Adding a currently established worship like Supplication at a certain point of blessed time, or making congregation duaa after a non-obligatory worship, is not exactly innovating something new.

The following is a quotation from Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz -God bless his soul- in which he further says that the prophet used to make relevent Duaa in his prayer at verses of punishment and mercy, as well as making duaa in his last rakaa of Qiyam Alleil. He also says that scholars agree that there is nothing wrong in duaa after finishing Quran outside prayer, but a few say it is not correct inside prayer. And since the prophet made duaa in various parts of his prayer and for different reasons, as well as have done congregation duaa for a specific reason, then it is for people to accept or leave the duaa at finishing quraan in prayer up to themselves, but to establish it as monkar or refused then proof is needed to support the refusal, not the opposite, especially that salaf has done it and schools of jurisprudence accepted it.

I apologise for not translating the article in full, but that was the summary:

سئل الشيخ عبد العزيز بن باز – رحمه الله – عن حكم دعاء ختم القرآن، نذكر لك فيما يلي نص السؤال والإجابة :

السؤال : ما حكم دعاء ختم القرآن ؟
الجواب : لم يزل السلف يختمون القرآن، ويقرؤون دعاء الختمة في صلاة رمضان، ولا نعلم في هذا نزاعاً بينهم فالأقرب في مثل هذا أنه يقرأ، لكن لا يطول على الناس، ويتحرى الدعوات المفيدة والجامعة، مثل ما قالت عائشة – رضي الله عنها - :" كان النبي – صلى الله عليه وسلم – يستحب الجوامع من الدعاء ويدع ما سوى ذلك" أخرجه أحمد (25151)، وأبو داود (1482).
فالأفضل للإمام في دعاء ختم القرآن والقنوت تحري الكلمات الجامعة وعدم التطويل على الناس يقرأ: (اللهم اهدنا فيمن هديت) الذي ورد في حديث الحسن بن علي – رضي الله عنهما - في القنوت انظر سنن أبي داود (1425)، وجامع الترمذي (464). ويزيد معه ما يتيسر من الدعوات الطيبة كما زاد عمر، ولا يتكلف، ولا يطول على الناس، ولا يشق عليهم.
وهكذا في دعاء ختم القرآن يدعو بما يتيسر من الدعوات الجامعة، يبدأ ذلك بحمد الله والصلاة على نبيه – عليه الصلاة والسلام –، ويختم فيما يتيسر من صلاة الليل أو في الوتر ولا يطول على الناس تطويلاً يضرهم ويشق عليهم، وهذا معروف عن السلف تلقاه الخلف عن السلف، وهكذا كان مشايخنا مع تحريهم للسنة وعنايتهم بها يفعلون ذلك، تلقاه آخرهم عن أولهم، ولا يخفى على أئمة الدعوة ممن يتحرى السنة ويحرص عليها، فالحاصل أن هذا لا بأس به – إن شاء الله - ولا حرج فيه، بل هو مستحب لما فيه من تحري إجابة الدعاء بعد تلاوة كتاب الله – عز وجل -، وكان أنس – رضي الله عنه- إذا أكمل القرآن جمع أهله ودعا في خارج الصلاة انظر مصنف ابن أبي شيبة (30029) فهكذا في الصلاة، فالباب واحد؛ لأن الدعاء مشروع في الصلاة وخارجها وجنس الدعاء مما يشرع في الصلاة فليس بمستنكر .
ومعلوم أن الدعاء في الصلاة مطلوب عند قراءة آية العذاب وعند آية الرحمة يدعو الإنسان عندها كما فعل النبي – عليه الصلاة والسلام – في صلاة الليل، فهذا مثل ذلك مشروع بعد ختم القرآن، وإنما الكلام إذا كان في داخل الصلاة، أما في خارج الصلاة فلا أعلم نزاعاً في أنه مستحب الدعاء بعد ختم القرآن، لكن في الصلاة هو الذي حصل فيه الإثارة الآن والبحث، فلا أعلم عن السلف أن أحداً أنكر هذا في داخل الصلاة كما أني لا أعلم أحداً أنكره خارج الصلاة هذا هو الذي يعتمد عليه في أنه أمر معلوم عند السلف قد درج عليه أولهم وآخرهم، فمن قال: إنه منكر فعليه الدليل، وليس على من فعل ما فعله السلف، وإنما إقامة الدليل على من أنكره، وقال: إنه منكر، أو إنه بدعة، هذا ما درج عليه سلف الأمة وساروا عليه وتلقاه خلفهم عن سلفهم، وفيهم العلماء والأخيار والمحدثون، وجنس الدعاء في الصلاة معروف من النبي – عليه الصلاة والسلام- في صلاة الليل، فينبغي أن يكون هذا من جنس ذاك .
[ مجموع فتاوى ومقالات متنوعة، تأليف الشيخ عبد العزيز بن باز – رحمه الله -، الجزء 11، ص 354].

So based on that, while I wouldn't specifically say the brother is wrong in not doing duaa, but based on the above he certainly should not be saying it is haraam, or telling people off of it when far more worthy salaf and contemporary scholars has said it is mustahab, and the other scholars said it is better to leave it without saying it is haraam.

I hope this was useful. And as always God knows Best

 

[Snowflake]

Sampharo, I thank you for a very informative post. But if I'm right, I think Squiggle is asking about khatams as done in the asian/pakistani community where people are invited to recite al-Quran for the deceased or any other purpose and offered a lavish meal at the end. Sometimes in female gatherings, a woman is hired to recite duaas and in the case of someone dying, a person maybe hired to recite al-Quran on the 4, 10th and 40th day after a person's death. Khatams are also offered every Thursday night by praying over cooked food, with the belief that the deceased will get the food/or their soul visit the house etc.

It'd be great though, if questions and answers related to this matter can be found in one read. Here is something relating to the khatams I mentioned.

Taken from Islam QA
Gathering to read Qur’aan and give the reward for that to the deceased is a bid’ah (reprehensible innovation), even if it is not done in return for any payment. If it is done in return for payment then it is haraam, because it is being done for a reason other than for the sake of Allaah, and any such action will not earn any reward. But if a person reads Qur’aan by himself and gives the reward for that to a relative or friend, without gathering with others for that purpose and without seeking payment, then there are two scholarly views in this case, one of which says that it is permissible and that the reward for the reading will reach the deceased.

The second view is that it is not prescribed to give the reward for the reading to anyone, because there is no evidence (daleel) to indicate that this is prescribed.

Thirdly:

If the family of the deceased have a special reading, and invite people to a meal three days and forty days after the death, this is bid’ah (reprehensible innovation).

And every bid’ah is a going astray. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever invents something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islam) that is not a part of it will have it rejected.” The action mentioned is a matter that has been invented in the religion, so it is to be rejected, and the one who does it is a sinner and will not be rewarded.

What people say about the soul of the deceased visiting the house after forty days to get the reward is a lie which has no basis. The person who told you that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions did not do any of these things was right. You did well to ask about the things of which you were unsure, and your eagerness to know the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and act accordingly is highly commendable. This is how the Muslim should be; his concern should be to know the truth so that he can follow it, and know what is false so that he can avoid it.

We ask Allaah to make us and you steadfast in following the Straight Path. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

http://forums.alkauthar.org/showthread.php?t=2971

 

[Sampharo]

Sampharo, I thank you for a very informative post. But if I'm right, I think Squiggle is asking about khatams as done in the asian/pakistani community where people are invited to recite al-Quran for the deceased or any other purpose and offered a lavish meal at the end. Sometimes in female gatherings, a woman is hired to recite duaas and in the case of someone dying, a person maybe hired to recite al-Quran on the 4, 10th and 40th day after a person's death. Khatams are also offered every Thursday night by praying over cooked food, with the belief that the deceased will get the food/or their soul visit the house etc.
http://forums.alkauthar.org/showthread.php?t=2971

Ooooh! No I didn't know about that! Sorry, subhanallah thank you for your correction sister. If that indeed is what Squiggle meant, then I would definitely trust those who studied it would know better. I never heard of this. It sounds like a bidaa if a woman is hired at numerical intervals, and food at funerals is haraam. Sounds like Egyptian mythology (food for the deceased for his spirit to eat)!

Fawqa koll thee Elmen Aleem, wa subhan Allahi rabbil Alameen

 

[Snowflake]

There's no need to apologize bro. Your post was enlightening and I'm sure those who read it learnt something new, as I did. So, jzkAllahu khayr for sharing with us.

May I ask where you're from as you've not heard of 'khatams' of this kind before? I'm inclined to think they only happen in parts of the indian subcontinent, i.e. India, pakistan, bangladesh?

 

[Salahudeen]

yes that's what I was on about the pakistani/indian khatams were they all get together and try and read as much qur'an as possible for the dead person because they believe it benefits the dead person or something. then at the end everyone says how many qurans they read for the dead person and a meal is dished up.

Also there's some kind of khatam where they believe the spirits of the deceased come to the house every thursday and start eating the food with them so they make the deceased person's favourite dish on thursdays cos they believe he's going to visit.

the lady who I was telling to that it's not from quran and sunnah said there's nothing wrong with it "we're doing somethin good reading quran for the dead let us do it there's no harm in it, are you saying it's wrong to read the quran with the intention of it benefitting the dead person?"

I said "yes because prophet pbuh didn't tell us that reading quran for the dead benefits them" then she said "well even if it doesn't it makes us feel better to believe that the dead spirits of our beloved 1s come and visit our house after every khatam so I'm going to carry on doing it, I can actually feel my dead husband's presence at the khatam when I cook his favourite dish"

then I just gave up and couldn't be bothered. I've decided not to get into this convo's anymore cos they the ppl just anoy me

 

[Sampharo]

There's no need to apologize bro. Your post was enlightening and I'm sure those who read it learnt something new, as I did. So, jzkAllahu khayr for sharing with us.

May I ask where you're from as you've not heard of 'khatams' of this kind before? I'm inclined to think they only happen in parts of the indian subcontinent, i.e. India, pakistan, bangladesh?

I am from Egypt. I did not run into those khatams there no. We have a social gathering with big tents held outside sometimes or at occaision halls where they just have people sitting drinking coffee and listening to a reciter reading Quran. It is not worship and very much social condolences. What bidaa I have seen though is in also remembering the person on the 40th day he passed away with another sitting of playing Quran tapes and inviting close family to listen and just messages of memorials (or even small newspaper clips in a special page for the rich people) every year afterwards. But again it's not exactly worship and they really intend this as social thing. However what Egyptians do is read quran on their own (not in groups or at certain times) and "offer its reward" to the dead person and making duaa separately.

They have different misguidances though, like burying their dead still in pharoanic style tombs where every family has concrete chambers below the ground and bodies of couples and their children will be just laid on cement slabs beside each other based on relations and the trapdoor to the tomb is resealed, to be reopened when a new family member dies!

yes that's what I was on about the pakistani/indian khatams were they all get together and try and read as much qur'an as possible for the dead person because they believe it benefits the dead person or something. then at the end everyone says how many qurans they read for the dead person and a meal is dished up.

Regarding reading for the dead person voluntarily and offering the reward and making duaa there are two opinions, the first and that is the majority is it is acceptable, namely with the Shafei and Maliki and Hanafi math-hab along with a majority of scholars, and they use the hadith "whomever reads Yasin on a dead person, his punishment is reduced" narrated by Abu Huraira through Al-Thaalabi as base in addition to the general acceptability of reading Quran at the graves. Hanbalis and a few scholars say there isn't a dictated sunnah for that so it shouldn't be done, while duaa and fasting and haj as well as monetary charity is part of sunnah, and that reading Quran is only at the grave. So there isn't consensus at that point, and the majority is that it is permissible and good, the same way that reading at the grave is good.

However (I did a bit of research on this Khatam to know more.) there is consensus that getting together at a certain date in terms of a day arrangement, or repeating on a numerically set night, and make a congregational reading and close it with a congregational duaa is a Bidaa to be left alone, as per Brother Abd-Al-Latif said already.

Aside from that, you need to tell them that serving food at funerals is haraam and specifically forbidden, and thinking that a spirit will come on a certain day and gets served food and enjoys it is beyond Bidaa! This touches on superstition and disbelief in dictated hadith that spirits stay in the grave, which is a grave sin.

And God knows best.