How do you see the future for Chechnya?

[Lina]

Allahu A'lam

Allah knows best.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

What'd you mean by "might not of been"? I'm talking about present day people in chechenya.

And ur wrong, the islamic influence amongst da muslim fighterz is ströng.

Quote me if I wrote that muslims fighters dont have islamic influence, I dont find it.

I'm talking about the general population and the "traditional islam" in the whole of northern Caucausus, not only chechenya, There is a war of ideas, what russians are doing is nothing else but eradicating the islamic awakening which is taking place right now, the current situation where true and especially knowledgeable muslims being singled out and lost without a trace, so their relatives dont even get to bury their bodies.
And the nonsence about - "we're against the world", I'm just saying, get real for Allah's sake, you cant defeat them alone, small group of mujahideen can hold on and fight but if the population is overall ignorant, the population will remain in the same state it is and again not only in chechenya and not only in N.Caucausus, around the world, situation is more or less comparable.

Warriors of Allah fighting on path of Allah will enter paradise, we shouldn't worry about them, we should worry about the rest of us, those who are off the true path.

 

[SATalha]

so wat do u suppose they do jus roll over n let the russians do wat they want. Sory i get ur point about the general population being not islamic. Iam not 2 sure about that. Lets hope the mujahideens and the 1s with good islamic influence can defeat the russians and spread tru islam inshallah. Or u cud b a pessemist.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

so wat do u suppose they do jus roll over n let the russians do wat they want.

the thing is, a lot have done just that

Sory i get ur point about the general population being not islamic. Iam not 2 sure about that.

stop putting words in my mouth.
Some muslims(if not most of them) run around in circles and chant shahada, pray to dead sufi sheiks, asking them to help them through and a lot of stuff like that if anything at all - this is reality, it's called traditional Islam over there, that's what I'm referring to, a few who have the real knowledge of Islam and trying to do dawaat are the ones being killed while they fight or while they preach.

 

[Darkseid]

I may be wrong but I I believe all of the Russian States that border it are Non_Muslim.

Since when did Allah want seperation?

The only Country Besides Russia, they share a Border with is Georgia I know Georgia is non-Muslim.

Georgia has muslims, therefore it is muslim. It might not have a theocratic institution, but it does have muslims. If it has muslims, then it is muslim is my point. Like if it has christians then it is christian. If it has Jews then it is Jewish. There is some factor presented by those people living in that country that influences it at least partially to an extent with that faith perhaps only in law or in practice of some kind.

So uniting them with the surrounding States would make them a State within a non-Muslim country

Actually you got it wrong. It would make them a state of either theocratic or non-theocratic (hopefully non-theocratic since all theocratic states would be like the Vatican or Iran) of a large muslim majority that is in a neither-muslim country. A neither muslim nor non-muslim state, because it is a federation and therefore has some muslim influence.

and they would still be in the same problem.

Perhaps the actual problem is understanding how corrupt theocratic states are in reality rather than in mythological mental perceptions.

Your view of a theocratic state is one of utter enlightment and tranquility.

My view of a theocratic state is another Iran indulged in controlling people by use of religious institution.

You can't have an actual muslim state, unless Muhammad was made into an Immortal long ago, which would then establish an everlasting and true muslim state. Of course it would be the first global state or state encompassing the entire Earth, but that's another story. The same is true for a Jewish State or a Christian State. Like how Hitler controlled the German Lutheran Church and how Zionists are trying to control Judaism with their own interpretation.

Only the founding father or fathers of a faith should be allowed to create and institute over a theocratic state. Because without such a leader, you just get another Vatican. You know that's why the Caliphate dissolved so easily. It was because Muhammad wasn't able to permanently institute over it due to the fact he was a mortal man. Why am I saying this? Because no man other than the man himself can properly institute his faith. But why did Allah not make Muhammad immortal? Well that factor goes outside of your beliefs and right now you are not ready to know that factor, young brother.

However, you can have a state under religious jurisdictions in terms of laws. The United State's laws are mostly bounded to Christianity. So doing the same with Islam, shouldn't be a difficult practice.

And that would be how you could establish a Judicially Muslim State.

Except they would have no independence and little self rule. I know that is what they have now.

You can have a lot of self rule in a federation. Look at Switzerland. Each Canton is practically independent from each other except in external affairs with trade, defense, or conflicts between Cantons.

Who's to say you can't do the same? And besides any tiny little state that size would eventually be gobbled up by a larger state. I can't even list how many times that has occured in the past. You know where smaller states like Tibet were devoured by larger states like China. You could very well have the same thing with Georgia.

At least in a federation, the little state doesn't have to fear such a fate. Federations are made to protect individual states as long as those federations are truly federal like Canada or Switzerland.

 

[SATalha]

this is where ur wrong. Although Muhammed (peace b upon him) was the best ruler this world has ever seen, doesnt mean that others after him werent as just and kind. Look at the 4 caliphs after the Rusul (peace b upon him) they where the best aswell. I can name many present day scholarz who would make fine caliphs. There are scholarz out their from the lineage of the phrophet (peace b upon him) that wud b just rulerz. In my opinion now that islam is in peoples mind, its only a matter of time wen these right minded people will have chance 2 become caliphs once more, inshallah. And then problems like chechnya wud not exist.

 

[Darkseid]

this is where ur wrong. Although Muhammed (peace b upon him) was the best ruler this world has ever seen, doesnt mean that others after him werent as just and kind.

I think history it self pretty much says that you my brother are wrong.

Did the caliphate survive? Weren't there re-establishments of this caliphate with the Ottoman Empire and such?

A civilization isn't going to survive forever unless it is under a structure that has the possibility to survive for such a long period of time.

With Rome the reason why it did not survive was because it was controlled by a monarch. Absolute Monarchies will not survive. This means Saudi Arabia, Bhutan, and the Vatican will eventually succumb to the same fate.

Democracy cannot survive in an aristocratic institution. The Roman Republic (precursor to the Roman Empire) couldn't survive, because it had an aristocratic institution. America, Britain, and Mexico are under an aristocratic institution, which means eventually they will succumb to the same faith as other nations.

Authoritarian Socialism cannot survive in a federation. That was the fate that took place in Russia.

Tribalization or Confederations of small states cannot survive like the Ancient Greek Confederation.

Theocratic institutions cannot survive. Look at what happened to Japan, Ancient Egypt, the Caliphate, Christedom (the Vatican during the Middle Ages), and other such institutions. They all couldn't survive.

The only thing that can survive is democratic society that isn't highlighted by an aristocracy. That way less fortunate people can work on equal terms and you have a united area. It has to be a society that allows freedom of faith and doesn't have a single faith dominate the entire world. That way people are united, while practicing different faiths. It has to be a society not govern by a monarch, (although that could simply mean a semi-presidential or parliamentary government) so that the people are united to govern themselves. It has to be a federation of smaller states to insure adequet representation of the people by their cultural differences. There has to be some form of a central government. And finally although it can be a socialist nation, it has to be a non-authoritarian society like Sweden. Socialism cannot properly work with a dictator. There is always too much at cost with a dictator and that as I have stated before the inability to have the people properly govern themselves.

Most importantly a government has to be progressive. Without being progressive it will decay.

Look at the 4 caliphs after the Rusul (peace b upon him) they where the best aswell.

You are aware there can only be one best. Best implies only one thing. You could say they were the best group of Caliphs. But they still weren't good enough to keep to Caliphate together after they were gone. It still deteriated and it was their job to keep it together after Muhammad's death.

I can name many present day scholarz who would make fine caliphs.

Yes but you also have to remember. That our present-day course will require the institution to change from what it was in the past. The past is the past and we cannot afford to go back into the past.

And that's the problem with having a Caliphate as it was in the past. People grow and the government has to grow with them.

So are you going to have a democratic Caliphate or a monocratic Caliphate?

Are you going to take care of yourselves or do you want someone else to do that for you like a dictator or a king?

There are scholars out their from the lineage of the prophet (peace b upon him) that wud b just rulerz.

Funny. I'm a descendent of Moses and I am a scholar. But people don't feel that I'm the necessary figure to become a government figure, well except for my wife and family.

In my opinion now that islam is in peoples mind, its only a matter of time wen these right minded people will have chance 2 become caliphs once more, inshallah. And then problems like chechnya wud not exist.

The only right people are those that are progressive, those that keep up with the times, and those that want to make life better for people. Not to take care of them for an eternity, but so they can take care of themselves.

 

[Chechen]

I know you're proud, but I think the war was started and ended by Russians when they wanted and how they wanted.
You dont honestly believe Russia couldnt annihilate the whole chechen population if they wanned? They picked chechenya for several reasons back in 1990's, all went according to plan, and now Russia is where it planned to be, the resistance is there, I'm not denying that, but what it can really do against pro kremlin chechen brigades, let alone against russia's military presence? Not much, lets face it, really... not much, you know why? Because the majority in there are getting along with Kadirov pretty well, either out of fear or out of money, doesnt matter, and even if they dont, the general level of islamic awareness among chechen population is on par with rest of islamic world - which is as low as it ever been, I dont think Allah would help nation who's more or less forsaken islam, as did pretty much all of the muslim nations, don't you agree? Or you gonna argue that chechens unlike everyone else are such devoted and knowledgeable muslims?
And what was happening when chechenya was free 1996-1999? Tell people over here what was going on, if you were around.

Yes true the Russians started this war but ended it how they wanted to? Did you know that Russia was actually planning to invade all of Chechnya in just 2 hours? But what happened? After 2 years fighting the Russians were exhausted and Basayev with about 1500 men took back Grozny and forced the Russians on their knees. So to say Russia ended the war how they wanted is wrong unless they actually were planning on losing. And it is possible for us to defeat Russia. We've done it before and we can do it again if we have the will and we try. And once more I'm telling you the whole northern Caucasus is preparing to fight it's not gonna be only 700 Chechen mujahideen fighting now. And about people working for Kadyrov, yes that's true they're forced, some are in terrible need of money. But the majority of the Chechens support the resistance even if they keep quiet about it to not get kidnapped and killed by the FSB. Dokka Umarov said in a recent interview that there are a lot of young men, not only Chechens, who are asking to join jihad but he says he can't take them because he doesn't have enough weapons. Also look at the Russian army, it's full of corrupt generals who want nothing but money and young boys who were sent to fight and don't even want to be in Chechnya. The Russian army has no will, no purpose, no reason in fighting and an army like that is a very weak army. On the other side you have the Chechen rebels who may only be 700 men but they're fighting for a reason which they're ready to die for. They have military experience because they have fought during the first war and know the terrain a lot better than the Russians. During the first war the Chechens with about 1500 men and nothing but Ak47's and RPG's defeated an army of 30 000 men who had tanks, planes, helicopters etc. So it's not impossible.

 

[SATalha]

Darkseid I appreciate your response and I take your point that the caliphate did slowly fade away. The reason is because we as Muslims did not follow the guidance as much and there was a decline in prayer and repentance. People know this especially groups like the Ikhwan and Hamas.

The only structures that we need is the Quraan and Sunnah, as long as we have these two sources the foundation is always their. In the Shariah we allow freedom of faith so that wouldn’t be a problem, we also would honour the people of different faiths and it is our duty to protect them. Time will tell what unfolds in this earth? All we can do is wait, work, prey and repent.

Anyway this is off topic, the future of Chechens is in the will of Allah, i hope they find their independance soon. However i feel that after BAsyevs death the chechen people and fighters seem demotivated. Lets hope Dokka Umorov can improve the sitiuation Inshallah.

P.S you would make a good M.P…just say I am a descendant of Moses lol.
:thumbs_up

 

[Keltoi]

Over time I believe Chechnya will gain independence, but it won't be because of a great military victory. It all depends on who takes over the presidency after Putin. If a more reform minded leader emerges who is more concerned with economic and security issues, then Chechnya might get what they have been seeking.

 

[SATalha]

Over time I believe Chechnya will gain independence, but it won't be because of a great military victory. It all depends on who takes over the presidency after Putin. If a more reform minded leader emerges who is more concerned with economic and security issues, then Chechnya might get what they have been seeking.

Yep this is the way i prefer. Although i dont think they will alow just anyone, it will be one that is a puppet and who will listen to Russian. Do remember that their are pipe lines of oil that run through Chechnya. Could this have a bearing? :?

 

[Chechen]

I don't think we'll gain independance because some kind Russian president will arrive. The FSB controls everything in Russia and Putin will definitely leave someone like him behind if he leaves and doesn't decide to do a third term as president. The Chechens could beat the Russians by fighting but it would be longer since they're by far more outnumbered and Russian technology is far more superior. I think the rebels will try to do something that will shock Russia, something that no one will be able to ignore, and they'll put the Russians in a position where they'll have to sit down and negotiate.

 

[AHMED_GUREY]

Happy Chechen faces

A beautiful rebuild Grozny

Insha-allah

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Chechenya is a part of the Umma, the situation in chechenya is comparable to so many muslim countries and minorities around the world.

It's not a secret that our world is one-polar atm, after collapse of USSR, we've also seen collapse of last standing opponent to western ideology.

It looked like west can celebrate victory - no more serious threats to their complete economical,political and most importantly ideological domination....
except Islam... the threat must be eliminated.

That, ladies and gentlemen is the underlying motive of pretty much any significant world event involving muslim countries.

War of ideas, image is everything, get Hollywood involved, create boogeymen, put puppets in place, suppress the knowledge, seduce the masses, and brainwash... lots of it

What muslims should do about it? answer is all too evident - learn,practice, follow Islam, that's all we need brothers and sisters, Islam guides us through life, tells us how to live, when to fight and how to fight, how to run our Umma.

The situation we're finding ourselves today is the result of neglecting Islam, there is no one to blame but ourselves, don't play blame games, we and only we are guilty of what's happening with us.

Knowledge is our key to get back on track imho

 

[Chechen]

Happy Chechen faces

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/grozny_032.jpg
A beautiful rebuild Grozny

Insha-allah

Brother that was Grozny before the war, it was beautiful.

 

[Darkseid]

Darkseid I appreciate your response and I take your point that the caliphate did slowly fade away. The reason is because we as Muslims did not follow the guidance as much and there was a decline in prayer and repentance. People know this especially groups like the Ikhwan and Hamas.

Actually the reason isn't that you didn't follow the faith so strongly. It was because you had corruption with people that didn't want to follow the faith at all. They would just associate with the faith, but in turn would use it to gain their own personal goals.

The Bahai'i Faith has this concept in the most correct perspective. Allah has instituted his faith in the past by many different prophets (I bet you have heard of them, like Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and such). But the faith and the people wouldn't follow equally under the present coarse. There has to be a simple guideline of things that must never change that are very broad in allowing change but very specific on keeping the same basic understanding of Allah the same. People after Muhammad didn't do that. Oh they were still praying the same amount, going to Mecca and Medina once in their life, and such. But they weren't grasping the changes that were occuring around the world and as a result you have a Middle-East that is behind the times, unlike what it was before. You know, because during the Middle-Ages, Islam was the highlight of civilization. But in the modern times it sort of progressed downwards. There are movements to keep up with the times like democratic Islam (probably only practiced in Pakistan and Lebanon), Sikhism, and the Bahai'i Faith. Those are institutions that came from prior muslim institutions and became more modern institutions.

Faith has to be progressive like a country, like the people, like technology, like philosophy, and like everything else.

When a faith does not become progressive, it starts to decay. People become less interested in the actually following the faith and instead try to use it by its historic context as a means to gain followers and achieve a political goal. For Bin Laden that goal is to become the king or dictator over all of the Mid-East. And his followers however believe that he trying to bring back the good times of Golden Age Islam. This of course is a false reality. Bin Laden doesn't want to bring the true spirit of Islam back into the Middle-East. What he wants to do is control and have power over the people like Saddam. He is just someone that wants to achieve power and corrupt the people to help him achieve that goal. He is no different than Hitler.

The only structures that we need is the Quraan and Sunnah, as long as we have these two sources the foundation is always their. In the Shariah we allow freedom of faith so that wouldn’t be a problem, we also would honour the people of different faiths and it is our duty to protect them. Time will tell what unfolds in this earth? All we can do is wait, work, prey and repent.

I'm quite well aware of that. But it wouldn't be a true protection of people's faiths if there is any form of prejudicism. The prejudice that had existed towards Jews during the Middle-Ages and believe it or not there really was prejudicism. I mean crushing idols is an act of keeping people away from practicing their faith. And there is also the political prejudice of keeping people back from being associated in politics. Like not having a Jewish President over a Muslim state. Hello without there being the possibility of having a Jewish President, it still isn't protecting them of their religion. It is forbidding them the ability to be seen outside of their faith and that is what is wrong with most muslim societies.

Allah had told me that you should never judge someone by their faith even if their faith involved idols, following a book or set of books made by the society rather than a prophet like the Vedas, sacrificial worship, or even the blasphemy of speaking under aggressive and hateful tone. As long as their faith did not corrupt, harm, or inact injustice in the eyes of a clear unbias mind then those people can continue to follow their faith. That means as long as their faith did not allow them to kill, steal, prevent people from speaking, adultry, or commit other crimes that truly are disgusting to the lord that they could continue their faith. Their faith as long as it isn't disgusting to the lord should not prevent them from practicing in politics and their faith should not prevent them from being a part of society.

Allah from what he had told me wants people to get along and stop acting like foolish and spoiled children. Allah wants us to colonize the oceans by building structures that can survive in the aquatic realm and could support a habitat for humanity.

Allah would also want humans to go away from investing in outerspace technology. Allah will protect humanity till he deems us ready for venturing into the forbidden realm. So you could say we need to be progressive, but the manner in which we act progressive must follow a guideline. A guideline of colonizing the seas so we can establish more room for wildlife to flourish, then we colonize the space zone around our planet, then we colonize the moon, and then we colonize Mars and so on.

Besiding making more room for the wilderness, Allah wants us to invest in the oceans so that we can improve our technology upon the safety of coastal regions around the world and prevent future catastrophes centered around tsunamis (which are cause by djinns or human activity). We can invest on making amphibious structures that can survive a flood or tsunami. And thus less people will die.

Spurilini an algae found off of Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean has the most nuitritional value out of all food on this planet. It even increases your intelligence and it is just one of the many organisms Allah made for humanity. If we invest in colonizing the seas, we can locate other such organisms that are as benefitial for humanity or even more, which could even cure AIDS, Cancer, Diabetes, or even Mental and Physical born mutilations. If we invest in our oceans we could very well have the perfect species (a species with no defects) without killing each other to achieve the same result. Why do you think natural fish, oysters, shrimp, and other seafood is no nuitritional. Hell with carrots, beans, beef, chicken, salad, and fruits. Spurilini has all of that goodness and more. It has all of those vitamins, minerals, and even chemical agents like the one found in breast milk to boast mental growth. That is why I said it will increase your intelligence.

That is what Allah wants.

I'm shunned that I am the only one that listens to him as he speaks from goodness within our souls.

Anyway this is off topic, the future of Chechens is in the will of Allah, i hope they find their independance soon.

It will be out of Allah's will to assign or choose a leader to bring Chechen their independence from Russia.

However i feel that after BAsyevs death the chechen people and fighters seem demotivated. Lets hope Dokka Umorov can improve the sitiuation Inshallah.

P.S you would make a good M.P…just say I am a descendant of Moses lol.

:thumbs_up

There are a lot of descendents of Moses. Both David and Jesus were descendents of Moses.

 

[SATalha]

That corruption that you talk about is still what I call not following the guidance, I am aware of these people who where corrupts. But it is also true that in those days for every corrupt person there was 5 more who where upright. You talk about change, yes this is an important aspect to every society’s well being, change in the Islamic world should only happen as long as it does not infringe with the Quran and Sunnah. Allah has perfected Islam for humanity and it is a whole way of life including politics. Every aspect of our life is guided by the Quran and Sunnah, nothing but Shariah should be accepted (democratic Islam?).

I don't want Islam to be a cut and paste job like some religions…..no names mentioned. I think you are wrong when you say that “When a faith does not become progressive, it starts to decay. People become less interested", the opposite is happening our faith hasn't changed and people are becoming more interested. If you do a survey in Islamic countries I bet you will find that people want Shariah back. They have seen what democracy and western values can do and now they want the Shariah back. Why do you think the Muslims where so successful? It was because they had a balance in life and Islam was the provider of that balance.

Your last few paragraphs are interesting….I think you care about the environment and yes you are right in saying that we should invest in ways so that the environment is safe it is our duty. But what has this got to do with this thread? The message is what we are hear for and that is my main concern.

Anyway those pictures of Groznyy are very nice…..it such a shame to see it in the state it is now.

 

[SATalha]

New incidents in Chechnya:

New successful fighting operations reported in Chechnya
Publication time: Today at 16:14 Djokhar time

The Turkish edition of Alkavkaz reports, referring on the sources in Chechen command, that on March, 29th, in the forest massive near Serjen-Yurt a group of mojaheds under command of amir Yasir organized ambush for Russian occupants, which were performing "reconnaissance".



It is reported, that hidden behind trees mojaheds opened fire on invaders. In result of this fight, there were destroyed 7 occupants. Mojaheds could take weapon and ammunition from 3 of them.



The same edition reports about significant activity on the Western section of Caucasus Front. So, on March, 30th, mojaheds from the detachment of young amir Ramazan, who participated in the common with amir Tarhan operations, have carried out successful fighting task in the Itum-Kalinskiy district of the country.



Mojaheds have blown up by mines 2 vehicles KAMAZ from convoy of Russian invaders. During this operation 5 Russian occupants were liquidated. Mojaheds could take some trophy from one lorry.



Also it is reported about continuing influx of the youth to mojaheds. They are training actively and participating in the diversion operations. Accordingly to the information of the Turkish edition, one from the detachments under command of amir Huseyn, operating on the Shali direction, has carried out a blast of microbus UAZ. There were 7 invaders inside of this vehicle, 4 were liquidated and 3 have received heavy wounds. There are not losses among mojaheds. http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2007/04/02/7915.shtml



these incidents take place every week and the every week3 or 5 russian soldiers are killed. How long will the Russian guvernment keep this up? How many more Russian families are gonna suffer coz of their guvernments stupidity?

 

[Chechen]

New incidents in Chechnya:

New successful fighting operations reported in Chechnya
Publication time: Today at 16:14 Djokhar time

The Turkish edition of Alkavkaz reports, referring on the sources in Chechen command, that on March, 29th, in the forest massive near Serjen-Yurt a group of mojaheds under command of amir Yasir organized ambush for Russian occupants, which were performing "reconnaissance".



It is reported, that hidden behind trees mojaheds opened fire on invaders. In result of this fight, there were destroyed 7 occupants. Mojaheds could take weapon and ammunition from 3 of them.



The same edition reports about significant activity on the Western section of Caucasus Front. So, on March, 30th, mojaheds from the detachment of young amir Ramazan, who participated in the common with amir Tarhan operations, have carried out successful fighting task in the Itum-Kalinskiy district of the country.



Mojaheds have blown up by mines 2 vehicles KAMAZ from convoy of Russian invaders. During this operation 5 Russian occupants were liquidated. Mojaheds could take some trophy from one lorry.



Also it is reported about continuing influx of the youth to mojaheds. They are training actively and participating in the diversion operations. Accordingly to the information of the Turkish edition, one from the detachments under command of amir Huseyn, operating on the Shali direction, has carried out a blast of microbus UAZ. There were 7 invaders inside of this vehicle, 4 were liquidated and 3 have received heavy wounds. There are not losses among mojaheds. http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2007/04/02/7915.shtml



these incidents take place every week and the every week3 or 5 russian soldiers are killed. How long will the Russian guvernment keep this up? How many more Russian families are gonna suffer coz of their guvernments stupidity?

As long as there's oil in Chechnya and they can make money from it they won't listen to anyone and that's why we have to push them out of Chechnya once and for all. It's incredible to think that thousands of people suffered for the greed of a few people.

 

[SATalha]

Yeah and Russia at the moment is like a crime town the mafia and the guvernmnet are in cahoots and also the there are those captilist who are trying to go legite but have to achieve it by iligitimate means.