How Does Islam Define or Describe "Personhood"?

[YieldedOne]

With this, I just want clarifying information, mostly. This question is only for my Muslim brothers and sisters out there.

What constitutes "personhood" in the context of Islam?
What makes a person a person rather than something else?
What makes God a person?

I'd really like all of the resources that I could look up for this one. I believe it's something crucial to understand about Islam...at least for interfaith dialogue.

Don't worry about me contesting anything. I'm just gathering input, information, and resources here.

Thanks in advance, YieldedOne :shade:

 

[Ramadhan]

Your question is already flawed.

What makes God a person?

God is God, not a person, never a creation.

 

[Sol Invictus]

God is God, not a person, never a creation.

person does not necessarily mean human. the question wasn't flawed. if you look to a dictionary i'm sure they'd have an entry in there which explains that (particularly in philosophy) person merely means an individual with a will etc. hopefully now that we've gotten past this minor hurdle, we can continue on with this thread.

 

[Zafran]

person does not necessarily mean human. the question wasn't flawed. if you look to a dictionary i'm sure they'd have an entry in there which explains that (particularly in philosophy) person merely means an individual with a will etc. hopefully now that we've gotten past this minor hurdle, we can continue on with this thread.

we dont anthromorph God or restrict God by philosophy - God is what God has said he is.

 

[Sol Invictus]

we dont anthromorph God or restrict God by philosophy - God is what God has said he is.

will you be arguing as well that god is not a person? you may say that you do not restrict god but the fact is that you do. just as he is categorized as an individual (along with all of us), you categorize him as the creator, the merciful etc. in your bid to simply disagree with a christian you have thrown logic out the window...though given your reply i wouldn't be surprised if you claimed that you don't restrict god by logic either (although in essence you have already claimed this).

now can we get to yielded's question or should more words be wasted on a subject that shouldn't logically arouse any problems.

 

[missy]

in your bid to simply disagree with a christian you have thrown logic out the window...

God Almighty Himself Says in the Quran,

'He it is who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book: others are allegorical, that is those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding' (Al-Qur'an 3: 7).

 

[Sol Invictus]

God Almighty Himself Says in the Quran,

'He it is who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book: others are allegorical, that is those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding' (Al-Qur'an 3: 7).

greetings peacelover, i'm not too sure what you're responding to with the above (i suppose that it has to do with categorizing the muslim god as the best of creators or something like that) but i will ask you whether you're arguing that the muslim deity is not a person? if you are then my response to naidamar and zafran still applies. person does not necessarily mean human. to understand how wide the scope of this word actually is, if today we were to find that aliens existed, they would be categorized as persons although they would not be human. generally, a person is any sentient being (though this is not a very good definition).

now to all the participants within this thread, can we please get to the actual discussion?

 

[Woodrow]

First of all we need to agree upon what we mean by person. If we believe that the only creatures created or not created that can be a person are human beings we have just defined personhood as being a human being.

Now if we define personhood as the attributes of free will and individuality we have essentially defined person hood as all who have full self determination and are Complete Masters of their destiny. We would mean Allaah(swt) is the only one with "Personhood"

So to simplify matters and look at it from an Islamic perspective we can define person hood as any creation having free will.

 

[missy]

i'm not too sure what you're responding to with the above (i suppose that it has to do with categorizing the muslim god as the best of creators or something like that)

God Almighty commands us not to delve in matters that of which there is no clear evidence. So we are not supposed to question about His Essence, Person, etc...i hope u got what i mean

in other words we have to believe that...."God is what God has said He is"

 

[Sol Invictus]

in other words we have to believe that...."God is what God has said He is"

greetings peacelover, i can agree with the above yet this would still not change the fact that god is a person. he is not an impersonal force, he is personal. he has a will. he is a moral agent. that sure sounds like descriptions of personhood to me.

So to simplify matters and look at it from an Islamic perspective we can define person hood as any creation having free will.

i believe that you are agreeing with me on this matter and as such i will take the above as a typo.

 

[Woodrow]

i believe that you are agreeing with me on this matter and as such i will take the above as a typo.

Peace Sol, I would say on this matter we are in agreement about 89.476%(Rough estimate ) I did intend to use the word creation

We do differ as to if God(swt) can be personalized. I do agree with your concept of God(swt) being personalized, but see it as incomplete as he is infinitely superior to being a person and I find the concept of defining him as a person to be demeaning. I do agree he does have the attributes of personalization, but to a degree beyond our comprehension.

 

[Zafran]

will you be arguing as well that god is not a person? you may say that you do not restrict god but the fact is that you do. just as he is categorized as an individual (along with all of us), you categorize him as the creator, the merciful etc. in your bid to simply disagree with a christian you have thrown logic out the window...though given your reply i wouldn't be surprised if you claimed that you don't restrict god by logic either (although in essence you have already claimed this).

now can we get to yielded's question or should more words be wasted on a subject that shouldn't logically arouse any problems.

are you kidding??? nobody categorizes God as the merciful and the Creator - those are names given by God by himself - yet the deep meaning of these can never trully be grasped by man fully. Personhood I dont believe is given by God.

 

[GuestFellow]

Person is defined as:

person

person [púrss'n]
(plural people [pp'l] or persons (formal) )
n

1. human being: an individual human being

2. human's body: a human being's body, often including the clothing objects found on her person

3. human's appearance: an individual human being's general appearance (formal)

4. character or role: a character or role, e.g. in a play (archaic)

5. grammar form of verb and pronoun: any one of three forms of verbs and pronouns used to denote the speaker, the person addressed, or somebody else being referred to
the third person singular

6. ethics object with special moral value: an object with special moral value because of some spiritual status, autonomous nature, or importance for other people

7. law individual or body of individuals: a living human being or a group, either or both having legal rights and responsibilities

[12th century. Via French persone < Latin persona 'mask worn by an actor, character']

--person, , suffix
-personhood, , n
in person personally, rather than being represented by somebody or something else

Terms that are not gender-specific have increasingly grown in prominence, and ones incorporating the suffix -person are now common (chairperson, spokesperson). The terms that have taken hold most strongly tend to be those that do not simply replace -man (or -woman) with -person but are more subtly neutral with respect to sex: chair rather than chairperson, customer adviser rather than salesperson. Despite the powerful trend towards inclusive terms, however, it remains true that when the members of the group at issue are predominantly male, the traditional term incorporating -man tends to be used more frequently (fisherman). Forms with -woman are also seen, though in most cases these are now less common than the form incorporating -person. Choose gender-neutral words when they are available. See also people.

^ According to the Microsoft Dictionary.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ramadhan]

With this, I just want clarifying information, mostly. This question is only for my Muslim brothers and sisters out there.

will you be arguing as well that god is not a person? you may say that you do not restrict god but the fact is that you do. just as he is categorized as an individual (along with all of us), you categorize him as the creator, the merciful etc. in your bid to simply disagree with a christian you have thrown logic out the window...though given your reply i wouldn't be surprised if you claimed that you don't restrict god by logic either (although in essence you have already claimed this). now can we get to yielded's question or should more words be wasted on a subject that shouldn't logically arouse any problems.

greetings peacelover, i can agree with the above yet this would still not change the fact that god is a person. he is not an impersonal force, he is personal. he has a will. he is a moral agent. that sure sounds like descriptions of personhood to me.

etc..

How did I miss it?
Did Sol Invictus just revert to Islam?

Mabrook, akhi!

May Allah SWT shower you with much blessings and guide you the staright path. amiin.
Please remember me in your du'a.

And please share with us your reversion story in the New Muslim section. It must be amazing.

 

[Chavundur]

What is the nature of our person hood or how can we describe it ? Soul ( nafs ),spirit ( Ego and free will or inclination), one part of our spirit is inclination, there is two Sunni school (i'tiqadi sects) differing from each other only on this subject. I paste a summary here ( Power of choice makes us individual, different and responsible)

According to Maturidi, inclination, the essence of the power of choice, is a theoretical or relative matter and may be attributed to God's servants. But Ash'ari considered it to have existence, so did not attribute it to them. However, according to Ash'ari, the power of disposal within inclination is a theoretical matter, which makes the inclination and the disposal together a relative matter lacking a definite external existence. Theoretical or relative matters do not require causes through which, for their existence, necessity would intervene and nullify the will and power of choice. Rather, if the cause of the theoretical matters acquires the weight of preference, the theoretical matter may become actual and existent. In which case, at that juncture, it may be abandoned. The Qur'an may say to a person at that point: "This is evil; do not do it." Indeed, if God's servants had been the creators of their actions and had had the power to create, then their wills would have been removed. For an established rule in the sciences of religion and philosophy is: "If a thing is not necessary, it may not come into existence [of itself]." That is, there has to be a cause for a thing to come into existence. The cause necessarily requires the effect. Then no power of choice would remain.
The Words ( 482 )