greetings hamza.
What the modern Jews and Christians believe to be the correct doctrines of their faiths are not the same as those believed and practiced by the predecessors because these religions have undergone a number of reforms and modifications since the advent of Islam. It is never an exaggeration if we say that Quran influenced these reforms especially in Christianity.
please give us an example of how islam forced christians to reshaped their trinity. the fact of the matter is that the above is false. it would be more accurate to say that the 'christian' west reformed islam (particularly as it concerns slavery in predominantly muslim countries) than that islam somehow reformed christianity.
The Quran is basically not describing the tenets of Judaism and Christianity but was pointing out how the followers of these faiths had deviated from the original teachings of their prophets.
wait a minute, are you saying that the qur'an is pointing out the errors of christians? then why is it that te qur'an itself inaccurately formulates the trinity, the divinity of christ, the sonship of christ, the position of the father etc.? are we to believe that it was pointing these out by formulating them incorrectly? are you seriously going to argue this way?
Also the Quran does not identify the entities or persons that constituted the Trinity. It simply denounces the whole concept as antithetical to and subversive of true monotheism. ( a ) The orientalists write that the Quran has classified Mary as a person in the Trinity and maintain that is an error. However, a simple glance at the present day Catholics is sufficient to show that they indeed worship Virgin Mary and address their prayers to her. This is no different if you look at the history of Christian nations. The recent proclamation of the Pope relating to the bodily assumption of Mary supports this conclusion.
( a ) let's say that catholics worship mary, that still does not mean that they add her to the trinity. all catholics believe that the trinity consists of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. no catholic will tell you that they believe that mary is divine. therefore the qur'an is in error when it says the following (by the way, the commentary to these are my words):
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth.
The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers.
And do not say, “Three”; desist — it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. — Surah 4:171 Sahih International (emphasis mine)
It would seem that three stands in place for the trinitarian doctrine of three divine persons. Now we should note the persons involved in the above passage: Allah (who quite clearly is identified with the Father both in the Qur’an and Islamic tradition), Jesus, and Mary. Right from the start we are met with a serious problem. Mary is included in the category of the three divine persons. She is named as a member of the Godhead—of the trinity while this has never been the case at all. Instead of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we are treated to the Father, the Mother, and the Son. Hence why the Islamic prophet can later on claim that it is far from God’s glory to have a son seeing as he saw the sonship of Christ as being accomplished through a sexual union between God (the Father) and Mary (the Mother).
They have certainly disbelieved who say,
“Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary” while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah — Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.
They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. — Surah 5:72-75 Sahih International (emphasis mine)
Once again the Qur’an incorrectly articulates the doctrine of the divinity of Christ and in fact condemns sabellianism instead of the trinity. It then goes on to commit a subsequent error in defining the Father’s position as the third member of the trinity. The Father is not the third but rather the first. And God is not the third of three but rather three in one. These aren’t simple mistakes that we can gloss over when it is claimed that the Qur’an is a book from God. Yet it must be said that both the Christian and Muslim know that the above formulations are wrong seeing as neither one of these who is knowledgeable on the subject will define the trinity with the Father being the third person or as God being the third of three instead of three in one.
Notice how Mary once more makes an appearance in a passage that is aimed specifically at condemning the trinity? The source of the Qur’an mentions that Christ and Mary ate food in order to show that they aren’t divine (seeing as God has no need to eat) but they make the great mistake of including Mary in the equation when the context is aimed at condemning the three divine persons whom Christians worship. Once again, the Qur’an is under the impression that the trinity consists of a Father, a Son (Christ), and Mary (a mother) instead of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! The text is very clear (“Look how We make clear to them the signs”) that it believes Mary to be part of the Holy Trinity.
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say,
“O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me — to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. — Surah 5:116-117 Sahih International (emphasis mine)
Let us remember that Muslims accuse Christians of worshiping three separate deities (and as such we are accused of polytheism). Can we count the number of persons involved in the above passage? Once again we have the Father, Christ, and Mary. These three and only these three. There is no subsequent exchange between the Muslim deity and Christ where he asks Jesus if he told his followers to take him and the Holy Spirit as gods beside Allah. That is indeed telling because it is either that the Qur’an is perfectly alright with this, or, more likely, that the source of the Qur’an simply was unaware of what the trinity truly consisted of. This is a great problem because the above is a purported discussion that Christ will have with Allah when the latter is about to condemn Christians for the apparent errors of their faith. This then clearly shows that the Islamic prophet thought that the Christian religion (in this respect) consisted merely of the worship of Mary and Jesus as gods beside the Father! Where is a condemnation of the worship of the Holy Spirit?
While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam:
“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God” (Quran 5:73)
the fact of the matter is that you are trying to pass off the words of yusuf ali as those of allah. why do you not use the translations which are actually accurate to the arabic? in the pure speech of the qur'an the muslim deity says that "they are disbelievers who say that
allah is the third of three. there is no god except god." this is completely wrong because no trinitarian would ever say that god is the third of three. for one thing, the father is the first person and not the third and the trinity is "three in one" and not "one of three" or "even the third of three".
at the very least we are in agreement that surah 5:73 speaks of the trinity and because it does we can clearly see that this is an error.
i thought about responding to every one of your claims but then thought it would be better to stick to the matter of how the qur'an represents the beliefs of christians. it is quite clear that it misrepresents them completely. it is telling that in your post you did not even try to argue that the representations within the qur'an are accurate but rather that the qur'an was never actually trying to describe what christians really believed. that is called setting up a strawman and therefore, any way you try to argue the matter, we end up with the qur'an being wrong about what christians believe.
this post was done in a bit of a hurry but i await your response. i would ask if you could also show us where we can find a correct formulation of the trinity within the qur'an.
