How I Became a Muslim

[Mr.President]

Please continue.... Publish the rest of the story ..

 

[Who Am I?]

Yeah man, this is like a TV series that only comes on once a week and we have to wait for the next installment.

 

[Ghazalah]

Well, there it is. The promo for your cheesy romantic comedy. You should make a trailer now.

Even though you may not mean anything bad by what you say, take into consideration this is a sisters conversion story, something which changed her life for the better and is something she won't forget, calling it a 'cheesy romantic comedy' might offend her. Just think about it.

 

[Flame of Hope]

Sister Ghazalah, you're really my pal you know. You got a cute little tiger looking at me there. Shoo shweet.

A fancy red car replaced by a beautiful tiger.

:wub:

 

[Flame of Hope]

Yeah man, this is like a TV series that only comes on once a week and we have to wait for the next installment.

News Flash!

Sorry to interrupt you for a brief news bulletin. The notorious Sister Flame has lost her brains. Frantic attempts are being made right now to recover those Elusive Noodles. Rumor has it that they are highly unpredictable and moody. We'll be back with the next installment of the TV series as soon as Flame is able to pin them down in one place. Thank you for your patience.

Fade out.

(Enjoy the following comedy meanwhile..... Mishaps of 2 Super Agents

 

[Who Am I?]

Even though you may not mean anything bad by what you say, take into consideration this is a sisters conversion story, something which changed her life for the better and is something she won't forget, calling it a 'cheesy romantic comedy' might offend her. Just think about it.

Well I hope Flame knows me better than that by now, but if I offended anyone, then I apologize. imsad :embarrass

 

[Flame of Hope]

Well I hope Flame knows me better than that by now, but if I offended anyone, then I apologize. imsad :embarrass

Awww! Come on! Wipe those silly tears away from your face.

You can't offend me. I'm un-offendable.

I've told you before and I'll tell you again... I don't like to hear the word "sorry" or the words..... "I apologize" from my pals and friends.

Apologizing is exclusively my privilege. Only I get to say those words.

I'm just soooooooo happy that you read my story, enjoyed it..... and that you're eagerly looking forward to the next episode.

So sit back, relax, have a Pepsi. The most intriguing episode will appear on your TV screen shortly. :shade:

 

[Riana17]

Wow, mashaallah! Allahu Akbar!
Indeed, Allah is the best of planners.
Such a touching story, can't believe I read all the pages of the thread.
You have written it so beautifully, so detailed, so described.
You are a very good writer, mashaallah. You should be awarded with the 'Writer's Award.'

I hereby, certify that Flame has what it takes to be a writer...... and not to mention a questioner too...

salam

I told her so

 

[Riana17]

Well I hope Flame knows me better than that by now, but if I offended anyone, then I apologize. imsad :embarrass

Salam
That's not offending, and Ms Flame has a big mind and its okay to show your cool side sometimes
Inshallah we will wait for your love story when you find one.

Me too I wanna watch the trailer Ms Flame!

 

[Flame of Hope]

Sorry for keeping you waiting, respected brothers and sisters............

Blame it on Memorial Day. It was a holiday for my kids... but not a holiday for me. lol. Couldn't find time to get away and write.

But I've got something going....

I've written the story in more detail.......

Allah The Best Matchmaker.

 

[Who Am I?]

Well alright then. You can expect more sarcasm and cynicism from me then.

Just remember, YOU asked for this... ;D

 

[Impey]

Originally Posted by Flame
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuhu!
My story is a pretty long one and I was posting it in parts in the Stories of Muslim Reverts thread. But I saw that it was holding up others from posting their stories and I didn't want to be in the way. So here's my reversion story....

Thanks for the opportunity to ask some questions - this is my second question about your testimony (I hope you will be able to find time to answer my first question in post 80). In your testimony you said that a critical moment was when you sought to find where in the Bible Jesus actually said he had come to die for our sins. I found this most intriguing as everyone of my generation in the West knows that Jesus did this whether they are Christian or not. Anyhow, I thought I must check this out as you say you did and I found there are a large number of Islamic web sites that say it so I wondered did someone prompt you in that direction or did you think it out for yourself.

My next search was of the Bible itself and in a way you are right about what Jesus said IF we confine ourselves to the exact words you used. But objectively, it does seem to me that you have to consider other ways of saying the same thing if one is not to be mislead. I would not call myself in any way a Biblical expert but I found several bits which are the actual words of Jesus that do seem to me to make it plain why he had come. To keep the post short I just quote one of them - Matthew 26:28 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

 

[Flame of Hope]

Thanks for the opportunity to ask some questions - I have two but for now I will just ask the first one. You said:

The argument went as follows: God wouldn’t be God if He died. All men are destined to die. Therefore no man can be God, even if he were to claim he was one.​

Now on the surface it looks like cast iron logic but if one digs in a bit, and this is my question, what for you does it mean to be a 'person'. Sure all men die as far as we know but does that mean they cease to exist at all anywhere, forever from that moment on?

(By the way, philosophically, the statement "all me are destined to die' is unprovable, sure it has not happened yet but who knows?)

Sorry for taking so long to answer your questions.

All men die. Not just all men, all things die. That's the plain observable truth. Nobody can dispute this fact and there is really no need to dig further.

Why would you want to dig further anyway?

As for what happens after men die, that's knowledge that belongs to God. And this knowledge has been communicated to mankind through His messengers.

 

[Flame of Hope]

In your testimony you said that a critical moment was when you sought to find where in the Bible Jesus actually said he had come to die for our sins. I found this most intriguing as everyone of my generation in the West knows that Jesus did this whether they are Christian or not. Anyhow, I thought I must check this out as you say you did and I found there are a large number of Islamic web sites that say it so I wondered did someone prompt you in that direction or did you think it out for yourself.

My next search was of the Bible itself and in a way you are right about what Jesus said IF we confine ourselves to the exact words you used. But objectively, it does seem to me that you have to consider other ways of saying the same thing if one is not to be mislead. I would not call myself in any way a Biblical expert but I found several bits which are the actual words of Jesus that do seem to me to make it plain why he had come. To keep the post short I just quote one of them - Matthew 26:28 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

Everyone of your generation in the West knows that Jesus died for their sins whether they are Christian or not....?

Dear brother in humanity, what do you base this opinion on? What is the evidence to suggest that everyone in the West believes such a thing?

When I first read about the idea that Jesus died for the sins of mankind I did not need to check out Islamic sites or do research to know that it was pure falsehood. Actually, it happened to be the turning point of my life...... coming to know that Christians actually believed that Jesus was God and that he had come to die for our sins. So to answer your question..... no. Nobody prompted me or guided me away from Christianity. I thought it out myself.

As for that verse you quoted: "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." .... if that verse means that Jesus died for our sins, then it's a conclusion that I would have to reject. I'm not going to accept the idea just because it's in the Bible.

Truth is clear from falsehood. But it's clear to only those who use their power of reason and do not lean towards their emotions.

 

[Impey]

Sorry for taking so long to answer your questions. All men die. Not just all men, all things die. That's the plain observable truth. Nobody can dispute this fact and there is really no need to dig further. Why would you want to dig further anyway?

As for what happens after men die, that's knowledge that belongs to God. And this knowledge has been communicated to mankind through His messengers.

Fascinating answer. Firstly, I would want to 'dig' since I want to have some kind of confidence in the hear after, know where I am going so to speak. I tend to agree that we cannot be sure but just one final point, are you saying that in Islam no one can know their ultimate fate when they die?

 

[Impey]

Everyone of your generation in the West knows that Jesus died for their sins whether they are Christian or not....? Dear brother in humanity, what do you base this opinion on? What is the evidence to suggest that everyone in the West believes such a thing?

Let me be clear, I said 'of my generation', notice I was careful not to say everyone believed it only knows about it since it was taught in church and school to all.

When I first read about the idea that Jesus died for the sins of mankind I did not need to check out Islamic sites or do research to know that it was pure falsehood. Actually, it happened to be the turning point of my life...... coming to know that Christians actually believed that Jesus was God and that he had come to die for our sins. So to answer your question..... no. Nobody prompted me or guided me away from Christianity. I thought it out myself. As for that verse you quoted: "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." .... if that verse means that Jesus died for our sins, then it's a conclusion that I would have to reject. I'm not going to accept the idea just because it's in the Bible.

This is interesting and of course you are quite entitled to believe or not as you conscience and mind dictate just as I do. But what puzzles me is that you in that case referred to the Bible at all, why did it matter? Secondly, presumably, if its in the Qu'ran (and I am given to understand that lots of what is in the Bible is in the Qu'ran) you would accept it - so where is the difference for you?

Truth is clear from falsehood. But it's clear to only those who use their power of reason and do not lean towards their emotions.

Well I cannot agree that this is always the case or that truth is easily disentangled from falsehood. Also I cannot accept that reason and emotions can be separated so easily. I don't know your background but it is a fact that the brain put simply has a rational part and and emotional part and therefore any thought gets filtered through both (unless the brain is damaged). Key to this is the amygdalae in the medial temporal lobes with a primary role in processing memory and emotional reactions. In practice this means that emotions are essential to making judgements no matter what logic you employ. For example, I well remember the story of the killing of the first born in Egypt to free the Israelites and I can rationalise that as just punishment because the Egyptians did the same to the Israelite children but my emotions tell me otherwise and I think I would hardly be human if I felt otherwise.

 

[Flame of Hope]

I tend to agree that we cannot be sure but just one final point, are you saying that in Islam no one can know their ultimate fate when they die?

Yes, no one can be sure what will happen to him when they die. Muslims live between fear and hope.... and even the Prophet (saws) said that he had no idea what would become of him on the Day of Judgment.

 

[Flame of Hope]

But what puzzles me is that you in that case referred to the Bible at all, why did it matter? Secondly, presumably, if its in the Qu'ran (and I am given to understand that lots of what is in the Bible is in the Qu'ran) you would accept it - so where is the difference for you?

Ah, respected brother in humanity, I read the Bible because there are many sparkling gems to be found therein. Those gems are universal principles of truth that apply at all times, at all places and to all human beings.

Here are a few passages that I really like:

1. “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to destruction is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only few ever find it.” Matthew 6:13-14

The universal truth expressed in this verse: The way to Paradise is the way of toil and hardship, the way to Hell is easy, alluring and pleasing.

2. “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Matthew 6:24

The universal truth expressed in this verse is: You can have only one Master. There is no Master besides the One True God.

3. “Do to others as you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the Law and the prophets.” Matthew 6: 12

The universal truth in this verse: Law of cause and effect..... do good and you will get good. Do evil and you will receive evil. You reap what you sow.

4. “If your brother sins, rebuke him; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks for forgiveness, you must forgive.” Luke 17:3-4

The universal truth in this verse: Pardon men so that you may receive pardon from The Almighty. Forgive so that you may be forgiven. Show mercy and you will be shown mercy.

5. “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don’t cheat, I don’t sin and I give you a tenth of my income.’ But the tax collector stood at distance and prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14

Universal truth in this verse: Pride is the cause of destruction, humility and repentance is the cause of salvation.

So brother in humanity, I read all sorts of books, including the Bible. I don't refuse to consider what any book has to say. I look for what is true. If it makes sense and it is an observable universal principle of truth, I have absolutely no problem accepting it. I certainly do accept all the above sayings found in the Bible. Such sayings are a delight to read. They are evident truths and observable phenomena.

But when I come across anything that pertains to the Unseen World, about which only God has knowledge, I cannot be sure of its truthfulness. That knowledge is conveyed only to the messengers of God..... special people of exemplary character chosen by God..... such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them all.

So if I were to read any book and it speaks of evident universal principles, I will readily acknowledge and accept those jewels of truth. But if a book speaks of things that don't make sense, I will reject those things. I'm not going to accept them just because the book I am reading is the Bible.

I take what is true. Reject what is false. To do this..... use of one's reason is indispensable.

The truth is clear...... always has been. We just need to lay aside our emotions and feelings...... because they have a tendency to make us...... BIASED.

 

[MustafaMc]

Yes, no one can be sure what will happen to him when they die. Muslims live between fear and hope.... and even the Prophet (saws) said that he had no idea what would become of him on the Day of Judgment.

I agree with you, but I stand on the promise that Allah (swt) made in the Quran of forgiveness and Paradise for those who believe and do good deeds. I pray to die not but as a Muslim - one who submits his will to that of Allah's (swt).

 

[Flame of Hope]

I would not call myself in any way a Biblical expert but I found several bits which are the actual words of Jesus that do seem to me to make it plain why he had come. To keep the post short I just quote one of them - Matthew 26:28 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

I'm a little surprised at your interest in my story, Impey. I didn't think non-Muslims would be interested in reading it.... nor care to ask questions the way you have. It seems to me you are yourself struggling to know the truth.... or have doubts in your mind and something you read in my story made sense to you. Anyway, I'm happy that you have come here to this forum in search for answers.

In my last post, I mentioned universal principles of truth that can be found in the Bible. These gems of truth can be found anywhere.... in any book or any religion. It doesn't matter who utters them. They are eternal in nature and self-evident.

But when we come across a teaching that cannot be classified as universal truth.... such as this line here,

"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

..... it would matter a lot who utters it. In this case, Jesus (peace be upon him) is supposed to have said it. But this was recorded by someone called Matthew.... about whom we know very little. Since I cannot be sure of Matthew's truthfulness, I cannot believe in these words. I would have doubts. But if it was Prophet Muhammad (saws) saying it, I would have immediately accepted it.

Here's another statement found in the Bible that cannot be classified as self-evident, universal truth:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

This statement is from someone called John. Who is John? What do we know about him? If we could verify his truthfulness and be convinced of his God-fearing character, then we should have no problem accepting the above information. But since we do not know anything much about John, we cannot be sure. I'd be justified to have my doubts...... and to reject such a teaching on the grounds that it contradicts what the Bible teaches about God in The Old Testament...... that God is ONE.

And by the way, I believe in the concept that God is ONE not because the Bible says so, but because it's the self-evident, universal truth.... clearly observable in the perfect order and magnificence of this universe.

Therefore, if I come across anything that contradicts a self-evident universal truth..... I will promptly reject it.

Now you know the reason in detail as to why I rejected the idea that Jesus died for our sins. Or the idea that he was God. Or son of God.