How I became Muslim

[Hiroshi]

Greetings hiroshi,

I do not know of any muslims who would hold hatred towards the bible/ christians or jews or anyone for that matter. Hate isn't taught to us. That is another thing if parents try to prevent their children to go near the other books at an early stage in life where they aren't even familiar with their own book. But as muslims it is only required of us to read and understand the Quran as much as we can, and that includes the references to Torah and Gospels (injeel) not bible though, and we may read them if we wish to raise our knowledge,and in fact we understand them more, after we have read the Quran more thoroughly.

I came across the bible too quite a few times when we stayed at hotels and wanted to take it home with me but sigh I could never ask anyone if I was allowed to, felt embarrassed since my sister kept telling me that it was going to look weird if I asked : S

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[May Ayob]

Jesus said that the Bible is the true word of God (John 17:17). But usage of the cross and the trinity doctrine are not taught in the Bible. The best evidence is that Jesus did not die on a cross.

Jesus was not even there when the Bible was written, Also If you are Catholic how about checking out what The Vatican said about the Bible recently , pretty interesting. That is not to note that the Bible is a compilation of old scripture written by heads Church years after Jesus PBUH has left. Also I advice you to read a book called Mis-qouting Jesus Very good one I would advise anyone to read

Peace be to you.

 

[Hiroshi]

So this means christians are happy to accept that God wrote errors, contradictions, and even in many instances, smut, that's because you find them in bible.

If you give me an example of what you refer to here then could examine this more closely.

Also, since you don't have the identities of the writers of bible, how did you know that the writers credited God for their writings? I'm always surprised whenever christians make this and that claims, including this one.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 says: "when you heard God's word, which you heard from us you accepted it, not as the word of men, but just as it truthfully is, as the word of God".
2 Timothy 3:16 says: "All scripture is inspired of God".

 

[Grace Seeker]

This is practiced in many American hotels as well. I find it interesting that British schoolchildren are given a copy of the New Testament, because in American public schools, that isn't allowed. I assume you attended a private school.

I think it would be interesting to visit a hotel with a copy of the Qur'an in each room. I think they should adopt that practice in America as well. Perhaps I will have the privilege of visiting London someday, insha'Allah

As previousl mentioned the Bibles that are found in many hotel rooms are not placed there by the hotel, but by a group of Christians (Gideons) who have organized themselves specifically for the purpose of distributing copies of the Bible as widely as possible. They buy these Bibles with their own money or donations provided by others specifically for this purpose. Even travel to distribute these Bibles is something they pay for out of their own pocket; rather than use donated funds to cover expenses they use them to buy more Bibles and cover all expenses out-of-pocket. They then distribute the Bibles whenever and wherever they can find permission to do so. If you want to Qur'an similarly distributed, I don't think there is anything that would prevent Muslims from doing the same thing with respect to the Qur'an if they were to so organize themselves.

 

[Ramadhan]

Jesus said that the Bible is the true word of God (John 17:17). But usage of the cross and the trinity doctrine are not taught in the Bible. The best evidence is that Jesus did not die on a cross.

Really Hiroshi?

Let's see what John 17:17 actually said:
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth

It means God's word is the truth. I agree with that.
It does not say that Bible = God's word.

You need to cast just a tiny bit of critical eye of your own faith, Hiroshi. You don't even have to be as nearly critical as when you examine other faith, and if you do just that, maybe you will find truth (or lack of it).

 

[Ramadhan]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 says: "when you heard God's word, which you heard from us you accepted it, not as the word of men, but just as it truthfully is, as the word of God".

I agree if it WERE God's word. However, there is nowhere even in bible which says that bible = God's word.

 

[Ramadhan]

If you give me an example of what you refer to here then could examine this more closely.

Really, you wanna do that?
Even christians admit that bible is full of pornographic and smut passages.

Funnily and sadly, a boy got an F for his essay which is cited by his taecher for being too pornographic:
The Passion That Knew No Bounds, a short story written by Landover Baptist School for the Vouchered and Saved senior high student, Truman Vidal (pictured right), found its way into the principal's office earlier this week. Truman’s teacher, Miss Marcia Blaine, was so scandalized by his racy, salacious prose that she crushed the essay into a tight ball and crammed it down Truman’s throat during class, screaming “I will not have pornographic filth in my Christian classroom!” as cheering students looked on. Miss Blaine then asked Principal Hargraves to expel Truman for violating School Rule 1834(b)ii 9 (“Thou shalt not write anything that would make the Lord Jesus squirm with discomfort.”) http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1203/bibleporn.html

It turned every single pornographic paragraph of this boy's essay was taken carbon copy from the bible!
;D

But let's entertain your idea:

So, christians do believe that God needs to be so explicit when recounting sexual stories. Here's some tiny examples from "holy" bible:

But still she went on the more with her loose behaviour, keeping in mind the early days when she had been a loose woman in the land of Egypt.
She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey's and emissions like those of a horse.
So she longed to do the sinful things she did when she was young in Egypt, when young men caressed and fondled her breasts.
(Ezekiel 23:19-21)

Sure you can argue that the story is a warning for those who aspire to become a prostitute, but why if bible were truly words of God, why did God want to recount the w hores sisters stories in such pornographic details? Is it necessary to tell that prostitutes are only interested in penises as large as donkeys' penis and who can produce sperm in large amounts after ejaculations just like horses do after they ejaculate?

I can go on and on and give you examples how according to christians, God wrote smut.

Here's some enlightenment lecture on the bible study of smut and pornography:

 

[Hiroshi]

Really, you wanna do that?
Even christians admit that bible is full of pornographic and smut passages.

Funnily and sadly, a boy got an F for his essay which is cited by his taecher for being too pornographic:
The Passion That Knew No Bounds, a short story written by Landover Baptist School for the Vouchered and Saved senior high student, Truman Vidal (pictured right), found its way into the principal's office earlier this week. Truman’s teacher, Miss Marcia Blaine, was so scandalized by his racy, salacious prose that she crushed the essay into a tight ball and crammed it down Truman’s throat during class, screaming “I will not have pornographic filth in my Christian classroom!” as cheering students looked on. Miss Blaine then asked Principal Hargraves to expel Truman for violating School Rule 1834(b)ii 9 (“Thou shalt not write anything that would make the Lord Jesus squirm with discomfort.”) http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1203/bibleporn.html

It turned every single pornographic paragraph of this boy's essay was taken carbon copy from the bible!
;D

But let's entertain your idea:

So, christians do believe that God needs to be so explicit when recounting sexual stories. Here's some tiny examples from "holy" bible:

But still she went on the more with her loose behaviour, keeping in mind the early days when she had been a loose woman in the land of Egypt.
She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey's and emissions like those of a horse.
So she longed to do the sinful things she did when she was young in Egypt, when young men caressed and fondled her breasts.
(Ezekiel 23:19-21)

Sure you can argue that the story is a warning for those who aspire to become a prostitute, but why if bible were truly words of God, why did God want to recount the w hores sisters stories in such pornographic details? Is it necessary to tell that prostitutes are only interested in penises as large as donkeys' penis and who can produce sperm in large amounts after ejaculations just like horses do after they ejaculate?

I can go on and on and give you examples how according to christians, God wrote smut.

Here's some enlightenment lecture on the bible study of smut and pornography:

The Israelites to whom of Ezekiel wrote (those of Samaria and Jerusalem - Ezekiel 23:4) should have experienced great shame when reading this things. These ones had forsaken God and turned instead to idolatry and to the nations of Babylon and Assyria for security. God was expressing how disgusted he felt at their behaviour. An angry husband might well say such words to a wife who had acted outrageously in commiting prostitution with other men.

Someone with a schoolboy mentality might s****** at such things. But try to imagine the horror of someone who realizes that Almighty God is directly accusing him of acting as these prostitute cities had acted. Wouldn't such a realization shock them to their senses? That is the reason for these strong words in the Bible. If God feels and expresses such disgust at human behaviour then we need to be made aware of this and be made to fear his wrath.

 

[Hiroshi]

Really Hiroshi?

Let's see what John 17:17 actually said:
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth

It means God's word is the truth. I agree with that.
It does not say that Bible = God's word.

You need to cast just a tiny bit of critical eye of your own faith, Hiroshi. You don't even have to be as nearly critical as when you examine other faith, and if you do just that, maybe you will find truth (or lack of it).

Well then, what writings do you believe that Jesus was referring to?

 

[Hiroshi]

I agree if it WERE God's word. However, there is nowhere even in bible which says that bible = God's word.

Well, if you want an example, in Matthew 15:4 Jesus quotes Exodus 20:12 and Exodus 21:17 and refers to these verses from the Bible as the "word of God" in Matthew 15:6.

 

[M.I.A.]

there has to be a middle path or path of moderation,
to remove sin is no easy feat,
lust, anger, greed.. the list is probably a lot longer

but every time you remove something of that nature, i would hope you learn its true nature.

unfortunately if you do, you will probably end up poor, lonely and downtrodden.

maybe then you could learn something of the nature of the people.

nobody would ever want to live like that and not so many do...its not normal(which is the path of moderation if not in one sense then another.)

people do what they do to get by, if you dont then you probably wont..
makes we wonder what the days of mana from heaven were like.

 

[Ramadhan]

The Israelites to whom of Ezekiel wrote (those of Samaria and Jerusalem - Ezekiel 23:4) should have experienced great shame when reading this things. These ones had forsaken God and turned instead to idolatry and to the nations of Babylon and Assyria for security. God was expressing how disgusted he felt at their behaviour. An angry husband might well say such words to a wife who had acted outrageously in commiting prostitution with other men. Someone with a schoolboy mentality might s****** at such things. But try to imagine the horror of someone who realizes that Almighty God is directly accusing him of acting as these prostitute cities had acted. Wouldn't such a realization shock them to their senses? That is the reason for these strong words in the Bible. If God feels and expresses such disgust at human behaviour then we need to be made aware of this and be made to fear his wrath.

So does this mean the bible only written for the israelites?
I guess then bible is only for the morally corrupt and bankrupt like the israelites.

Would you let your own children pick up any book which talk about fondling breasts, penises as large as donkeys', sperm ejaculation as copious as those of horses even if it contains moral story such as "prostitution is bad, kid. Don't do it"?
So you think it is ok to write pornographic stories as long as in the end there is some messages such as "pay up after you use w hores"?

Do you really believe God really narrate about breasts, vagia juices, sperms, get naked with your own brother etc to shock the israelites ?
So God the Most High and Most Al Mighty was expressing His disgusts by writing erotic stories?

Sorry, whichever you are trying to spin it, it does not compute with me

Fact: Bible is full of smut. and I have proven it.

 

[Ramadhan]

Well then, what writings do you believe that Jesus was referring to?

Did Jesus (pbuh) refer to any writing in the verse?

 

[Ramadhan]

Well, if you want an example, in Matthew 15:4 Jesus quotes Exodus 20:12 and Exodus 21:17 and refers to these verses from the Bible as the "word of God" in Matthew 15:6.

This is Matthew 15:4
For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

It does not say bible or that bible = word of God.

Remember, previously you claimed this:

Jesus said that the Bible is the true word of God (John 17:17). But usage of the cross and the trinity doctrine are not taught in the Bible. The best evidence is that Jesus did not die on a cross.

So please give us direct reference and direct quote (I even take from your bible, any bible) that says bible = true word of God.

I hope you can find honesty within yourself, Hiroshi, because I believe that is one of the God's commandments.

 

[Hiroshi]

This is Matthew 15:4
For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'

It does not say bible or that bible = word of God.

Remember, previously you claimed this:


So please give us direct reference and direct quote (I even take from your bible, any bible) that says bible = true word of God.

I hope you can find honesty within yourself, Hiroshi, because I believe that is one of the God's commandments.

Peace to you Ramadhan.

The Bible does not, of course, contain the word: "Bible". But it refers to the writings contained in these scriptures as the "word of God" as Matthew 15:6 shows. I think that a fair-minded person would say that you are splitting hairs.

 

[brmm]

Jesus said that the Bible is the true word of God (John 17:17).

Salaam to you Hiroshi,
One day I was in a discussion with Amigo, if the Bible contains the name of God and how a book from God does not contain His Holy name which is the most important piece of information in a divine book.

Frankly, Muslims don't like what they consider as disrespectful sentences in the Bible for our Holy God (ALLAH) and His messengers PBUT. I don't wish to mention any but the OT contains many of them. Muslims also consider worshiping any one but God as the biggest sin which God (ALLAH Almighty) will not forgive as He told us, for these reasons the Bible is, for sure, not their favorite book to read. I have read some parts of it to get an idea about the message of the book and to have my own evaluation.

brmm

 

[Hiroshi]

So does this mean the bible only written for the israelites?
I guess then bible is only for the morally corrupt and bankrupt like the israelites.

Would you let your own children pick up any book which talk about fondling breasts, penises as large as donkeys', sperm ejaculation as copious as those of horses even if it contains moral story such as "prostitution is bad, kid. Don't do it"?
So you think it is ok to write pornographic stories as long as in the end there is some messages such as "pay up after you use w hores"?

Do you really believe God really narrate about breasts, vagia juices, sperms, get naked with your own brother etc to shock the israelites ?
So God the Most High and Most Al Mighty was expressing His disgusts by writing erotic stories?

Sorry, whichever you are trying to spin it, it does not compute with me

Fact: Bible is full of smut. and I have proven it.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Anyonewho read the entire book of Ezekiel would think it absurd if it wereclaimed that it was filled with smut for the gratification of writeror reader. The writing is tremendously long, 48 chapters, and youhave picked out just a few selected verses and judged the whole bookupon that. God is calling the wrongdoers to account for their actionsand he is telling it like it is. Considering that they should havebeen upholding true worship their behaviour was filthy anddisgusting. It was spiritual fornication. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ezekielcontains powerful prophecies of future events that only God couldknow about concerning, for example, Babylon and Tyre (Ezekiel 26:7).Some features of the prophecy about Tyre were fulfilled some 250after Ezekiel was written. How could mere men have known about thesethings?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Butthe book also contains scenes of true horror hiding nothing of theoutrages that had been committed. Please read the whole of chapter 8. [/FONT]

 

[Ramadhan]

Peace to you Ramadhan. The Bible does not, of course, contain the word: "Bible". But it refers to the writings contained in these scriptures as the "word of God" as Matthew 15:6 shows. I think that a fair-minded person would say that you are splitting hairs.

This is Matthew 15:6
he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Again, it says "the word of god"
but it didn't say any writing or that the word of god = writings.

Now even indirect references.

Let's say that Matthew 15:4 is truly the word of God, are you suggesting the whole bible is the word of god?
Are you saying that half of the NT, letters of paul, are the word of God?

Have you even read your own bible?

 

[Ramadhan]

Anyonewho read the entire book of Ezekiel would think it absurd if it wereclaimed that it was filled with smut for the gratification of writeror reader. The writing is tremendously long, 48 chapters, and youhave picked out just a few selected verses and judged the whole bookupon that. God is calling the wrongdoers to account for their actionsand he is telling it like it is. Considering that they should havebeen upholding true worship their behaviour was filthy anddisgusting. It was spiritual fornication.

Sure, Not all bible is filled with smut.
But it doesn't nullify my argument that christians believe God has written eortic stories to express His disgusts.

If you christians do not think huge penises, fondling breasts, incestuous sex, etc are too explicit, not even too explicit for children, then christians certainly have pretty loose attitude when it comes to erotic stories.
Do you believe that your won scripture is intended for everyone or not?
Is that why catholics are not allowed by vatican to read bible on their own?

 

[Ramadhan]

I think you missed this question:

Did Jesus (pbuh) refer to any writing in the verse?