How to Make America an Islamic Nation ?

[islamirama]

The U.S. won't be an Islamic nation, and if it ever, theoretically, turned into one, it wouldn't be the U.S. anymore. I'm not saying this because I'm xenophobic or have some dislike of Muslims. The foundation of the U.S. is in secular representative government. People call the U.S. a Christian nation sometimes, but the truth is that it isn't. There is a Christian majority in the voting population, but that doesn't equate to being a "Christian nation". Let us say for the sake of argument that in 200 years, Islam is the dominant faith in the U.S. voting population. If that were the case, and if the integrity of the secular nature of the government and its institutions remained intact, I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I would have a problem with is probable transformation of the U.S. from a country of secular law to one of theocracy. In that case it wouldn't be the U.S. any longer.

I have to disagree. Whether you become a priest, a serial killer, or a jungle man, you still are “bob”. US will still be US (united States) and that is a fact. As for what kind of US it will be depends on it’s residents. Today it is a Christian nation regardless of what one may say. All the holidays are Christianity based, Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter just a few example. The assemblies in D.C always start with a prayer from the Bible. The people that take oat or are sworn in put their hands on the bible. Look at all the specials of promoting Christian via movies and cartoons during holidays. How many other religions get such viewing? Any special done Ramadan? Bush himself claims to be talking to God and calls himself a strong Christian believer. Every person in congress is Christian (and jews). So it is a Christian nation by every sense of it. And inshallah it will become a Muslim nation one day, and not by Muslims invading and taking over it. But the very citizens that are Christians will convert to islam more and more till the majority of Americans are Muslims rather then Christians or other faith. It will still be the same US and the same people, but the dominate faith will not be the same. Perhaps maybe foreign policies will be more friend and unbias towards Muslims and others that are not “allies” of the US. And perhaps then we won’t see turmoil in the world as much.

 

[Keltoi]

I have to disagree. Whether you become a priest, a serial killer, or a jungle man, you still are “bob”. US will still be US (united States) and that is a fact. As for what kind of US it will be depends on it’s residents. Today it is a Christian nation regardless of what one may say. All the holidays are Christianity based, Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter just a few example. The assemblies in D.C always start with a prayer from the Bible. The people that take oat or are sworn in put their hands on the bible. Look at all the specials of promoting Christian via movies and cartoons during holidays. How many other religions get such viewing? Any special done Ramadan? Bush himself claims to be talking to God and calls himself a strong Christian believer. Every person in congress is Christian (and jews). So it is a Christian nation by every sense of it. And inshallah it will become a Muslim nation one day, and not by Muslims invading and taking over it. But the very citizens that are Christians will convert to islam more and more till the majority of Americans are Muslims rather then Christians or other faith. It will still be the same US and the same people, but the dominate faith will not be the same. Perhaps maybe foreign policies will be more friend and unbias towards Muslims and others that are not “allies” of the US. And perhaps then we won’t see turmoil in the world as much.

As I said, the U.S. is a system of government. People that serve in the government are majority Christian, but they aren't placed their to rule over the nation with a theocracy. If Muslims somehow became a majority in the U.S., it would be highly unlikely that the government would remain devoted to the same principles of individual freedom that America was founded upon. Yes, that is partly because of the Christian nature of the founding fathers and their political philosophies, but I also believe a Muslim majority would more than likely push for more law based on Muslim faith. I could be wrong, perhaps a Muslim majority would be content to adhere to the limits of the Constitution. Somehow I doubt it though.

 

[islamirama]

As I said, the U.S. is a system of government. People that serve in the government are majority Christian, but they aren't placed their to rule over the nation with a theocracy. If Muslims somehow became a majority in the U.S., it would be highly unlikely that the government would remain devoted to the same principles of individual freedom that America was founded upon. Yes, that is partly because of the Christian nature of the founding fathers and their political philosophies, but I also believe a Muslim majority would more than likely push for more law based on Muslim faith. I could be wrong, perhaps a Muslim majority would be content to adhere to the limits of the Constitution. Somehow I doubt it though.

These muslims wont' be coming from another place or something. It'll be the same americans who once were christians (the intial statement of the article). We already have laws based on christianity. Laws based on islam won't be much different. Look at muslim nations, they have islamic laws and democracy. Even if laws are made to be more Muslim friendly, that doesn't mean non-Muslims will be forced to obey them (like no alcohol vs 21 age). Also, i don't think it would matter at that point becuase a nation is representative of it's people, and what the majority want will take place...choice of the people, democracy?

besides, if there's a 3 day weekend (friday off also for Muslims), i don't you would be complaining

 

[Keltoi]

These muslims wont' be coming from another place or something. It'll be the same americans who once were christians (the intial statement of the article). We already have laws based on christianity. Laws based on islam won't be much different. Look at muslim nations, they have islamic laws and democracy. Even if laws are made to be more Muslim friendly, that doesn't mean non-Muslims will be forced to obey them (like no alcohol vs 21 age). Also, i don't think it would matter at that point becuase a nation is representative of it's people, and what the majority want will take place...choice of the people, democracy?

besides, if there's a 3 day weekend (friday off also for Muslims), i don't you would be complaining

If the U.S. still recognizes the authority and limits granted to government by the U.S. Constitution I wouldn't have a problem with it. We aren't simply a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.

 

[islamirama]

If the U.S. still recognizes the authority and limits granted to government by the U.S. Constitution I wouldn't have a problem with it. We aren't simply a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.

It'll be whatever American Muslims make it, only future will tell.

 

[Muezzin]

What Keltoi is saying is that the US is fundamentally about the separation of church and state. Thus, while certain religions might dominate through sheer quantity, if they legislate according to religious edicts, the US will lose its essence and in that sense will cease to exist.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to clarify it.

 

[Keltoi]

What Keltoi is saying is that the US is fundamentally about the separation of church and state. Thus, while certain religions might dominate through sheer quantity, if they legislate according to religious edicts, the US will lose its essence and in that sense will cease to exist.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to clarify it.

Yes, that is what I'm trying to say. U.S. laws and legislation are limited by the authority given to Congress and the president in the Constitution. As a consequence we aren't simply a "mob rules" democracy, but one based on the foundation of secular law and limited government.

 

[islamirama]

Yes, that is what I'm trying to say. U.S. laws and legislation are limited by the authority given to Congress and the president in the Constitution. As a consequence we aren't simply a "mob rules" democracy, but one based on the foundation of secular law and limited government.

I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that despite it being secular in nature, it is still heavely influenced by christian based rulers at all levels. What laws are made and policies dictated and what not is done from a christian based perspective. And when that group is replaced by Muslim. Then the gov't can still be the same secular gov't with secular law and limited gov't but it will have more american muslim influence then american christian do to this majority faith shift.

For example, Maybe US will stop giving israel billions in aid every year and hi tech weapons and turn blind eye to everythig israel does. Maybe their policies will be more clear and fair rather then bias and prejudical. Maybe they will introduce stipends for new mothers and longer time off to be with the baby. I"m not talking about gov't change here, same gov't can still be in place but the people representing it will bring new and different ideas to run it.

 

[Keltoi]

I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that despite it being secular in nature, it is still heavely influenced by christian based rulers at all levels. What laws are made and policies dictated and what not is done from a christian based perspective. And when that group is replaced by Muslim. Then the gov't can still be the same secular gov't with secular law and limited gov't but it will have more american muslim influence then american christian do to this majority faith shift.

For example, Maybe US will stop giving israel billions in aid every year and hi tech weapons and turn blind eye to everythig israel does. Maybe their policies will be more clear and fair rather then bias and prejudical. Maybe they will introduce stipends for new mothers and longer time off to be with the baby. I"m not talking about gov't change here, same gov't can still be in place but the people representing it will bring new and different ideas to run it.

Well, besides the political statements that I don't particular agree with, I don't really find anything about your theory that I disagree with. I'm sure if Muslims did become a majority in the U.S. there would be obvious changes in political and civil direction. As long as it stays within the bounds of constitutional law it would still be the U.S., regardless of the changes.

 

[islamirama]

Well, besides the political statements that I don't particular agree with, I don't really find anything about your theory that I disagree with. I'm sure if Muslims did become a majority in the U.S. there would be obvious changes in political and civil direction. As long as it stays within the bounds of constitutional law it would still be the U.S., regardless of the changes.

Most of the Constiution is based on christianity, and most of the christianity agrees with Islam. Bill of rights, i dont' think you'll see them disappear. Today you can't even whisper that somebody should kill bush without having the secrete service giving much room to breathe. During Islamic rule, you could get away directly threatening the ruler in his face with such a thing. So I think lot of changes will take but i think it will be all for good. Some may not like it like but many will.

 

[Keltoi]

Most of the Constiution is based on christianity, and most of the christianity agrees with Islam. Bill of rights, i dont' think you'll see them disappear. Today you can't even whisper that somebody should kill bush without having the secrete service giving much room to breathe. During Islamic rule, you could get away directly threatening the ruler in his face with such a thing. So I think lot of changes will take but i think it will be all for good. Some may not like it like but many will.

Just to clarify things, the U.S. Constitution isn't based on Christianity in any way whatsoever. It was formed by committee as the blueprint for how our government functions, including no establishment of religion, two legislative branches, one judicial, one executive, and blah blah. The only American political document which directly makes mention of God, more specifically the "Creator", is the Declaration of Independence.

 

[islamirama]

Just to clarify things, the U.S. Constitution isn't based on Christianity in any way whatsoever. It was formed by committee as the blueprint for how our government functions, including no establishment of religion, two legislative branches, one judicial, one executive, and blah blah. The only American political document which directly makes mention of God, more specifically the "Creator", is the Declaration of Independence.

I know dude, i grew up here too. I mean by christian perspective, after all thomas jefferson was a christian. Anyways, like i said before. People represent a nation, what people decide is what the nation will be like. Whethe it's american christians or american muslim majority, it is their home and they will make it the society they want to live in. personally i like to see more conservative and home values than liberalism like gay marches and all that mumbo jumbo. Did you know my countries in europe are like that, where family comes first and money/job 2nd.