i am a born again, evangelical christian
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AntiKarateKid
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People were converted by just hearing the Quran. It is our timeless miracle for all generations. It is a literary masterpiece that no human being has ever been able to match and has remained unchanged throughout time. And when you understand it in Arabic and hear it, even Arab Christians are deeply moved by it. You don't need to know how to sing or be in a Choir, the words of the Quran hold power without these external things. Many people have tried to match it but have failed.
This is a miracle which convinces me. It is just one of many things in Islam which convince me.
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what perversions ?
upon what criteria did you come to the conclusion, God had no son ? Who gave you this revelation, and for what reason did you give more credit to it, than to the bible ? btw. before the quran was written, how did Allah be known ?
AntiKarateKid
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Another thing to remember is that the belief in Jesus' divinity was not established until more than two centuries after his death. I find this extremely suspect because since when did any revelation of God be so confusing that it took that long for people to realize SUCH A BIG point of their faith. Moroever the decision was made by the clergy and all competing bibles and Christian sects were brutally repressed and many people were killed.
Id like to hear your response to this. And also, can you give me something Jesus DID that made him seem godlike. Any miracles or etc etc?
Id like to hear your response to this. And also, can you give me something Jesus DID that made him seem godlike. Any miracles or etc etc?
Zafran
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comming form a guys whos book wasnt canonized until 300 AD - 300 years after christ and some books are even written by people who didnt even know christ eg Paul
God does not begat beacsue its an animal act - a low act - It does not befit the majesty of God - ask the Jews they will tell your blasphemy.
God does not begat beacsue its an animal act - a low act - It does not befit the majesty of God - ask the Jews they will tell your blasphemy.
what evidence do you have, to make this assertion ?
no, but John, matthew, and markus were. Was muhammed a eyewitness of jesus ? is it more probable, muhammed were, or the apostles mentioned before ? who therefore deserves more credibility ?
you forget, that the gospels were written, after Jesus ressurrected, and the apostles received the holy spirit. And the holy spirit made them remember all, what Jesus did, and said, and it gave the disciples a profound spiritual discernment, they had not before pentecost. Before critizise, it might be important to have a minimum of knowledge of the critizised subject.
Zafran
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PAUL! never met Jesus pbuh when he was alive.
Ah but John , mark matthew and paul are not prophets didnt clalim to be - prophet Muhammad pbuh is a prophet of God.
many scholars are even questioning who wrote John, mark and matthew anyway.
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each one has to convert by its own. its not my business to try to convert others....
AntiKarateKid
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Well, Luke is said to have been one of Paul’s travel companions, “the beloved” physician, and thus would not have been an eyewitness to Jesus’ ministry. A late 2nd century list of New Testament books states unequivocally that Luke did not know Jesus.
And also, John Mark (or John called Mark), purported author of the Gospel of Mark, is mentioned three times in the Bible, in Acts 12:12, 15:37 and 1 Peter 5:13. He is associated with Peter and Paul, and is thought to have been their companion. Eusebius’s Church History says that Mark wrote his gospel as Peter’s interpreter, supposedly writing it in Rome as a summary of Peter’s preaching. If this is true, then Mark himself is not the eyewitness, but rather Peter, one of the Twelve named disciples.
And also, John Mark (or John called Mark), purported author of the Gospel of Mark, is mentioned three times in the Bible, in Acts 12:12, 15:37 and 1 Peter 5:13. He is associated with Peter and Paul, and is thought to have been their companion. Eusebius’s Church History says that Mark wrote his gospel as Peter’s interpreter, supposedly writing it in Rome as a summary of Peter’s preaching. If this is true, then Mark himself is not the eyewitness, but rather Peter, one of the Twelve named disciples.
AntiKarateKid
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Please reply to my 2 posts as well.
this is very subjective. How can we test if what the Quran says , is true ? Muhammad claims to be a prophet of God. We are commanded to test prophets to determine whether they are from God. Muhammad may be a true prophet or he may be a false prophet. We must test him to see which he is. Are you prepared to test Muhammad as God has commanded?
How do we test a prophet? We test a prophet by examining his prophecy to see whether it is true. The prophecy of Muhammad is recorded in the Quran so we need to test what the Quran says to see whether Muhammad is a true prophet.
The Qur'an makes three claims as to why Muhammad is a true prophet. These claims are "testable". These claims are:
The Qur'an confirms the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
The Qur'an makes clearer the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Muhammad is foretold in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Son of God
In the Bible there is a lot of teaching about the "Son of God". This teaching is quite clear. The Qur'an also has much to say about the "Son of God", however it does not confirm or make clearer the Bible's teaching, instead it misunderstands and actually confuses what the Bible clearly taught.
What does the Bible say about the "Son of God"?
The phrase, "Son of God" is a title that is used in the Bible to denote someone's relationship to God. This relationship involves the person, or people, receiving promises from God that they will receive something from him. In this way they are an heir to God as they have been promised and inheritance from him. Now since a son is the heir to his father so too those who have received promises from God are called "sons" of God. In the book of Exodus we see that the whole nation of Israel is called God's "son".
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. ... Then say to Pharaoh, `This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4:21-23, NIV)
When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. (Hosea 11:1, NIV)
Later in Israel's history God appointed David as Israel's king. The title of "Son" that had been applied to Israel was now also applied to her king as he was the head of the nation and had received a special promise from God. Thus every king of Israel had the title of "Son" of God:
The LORD declares to you (David) that the LORD himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. (2 Samuel 7:11-14, NIV)
The king of Israel also had another title, the title of Messiah. (The Greek translation of the word Messiah is Christ.) The word Messiah comes from the Hebrew word "to anoint". Every king of Israel was anointed to the position of king, and so every king was The Anointed or the Messiah. We see this happen when Saul was anointed king over Israel:
Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the LORD anointed you leader over his inheritance? (1 Samuel 10:1, NIV)
What have we seen so far? We have seen that every king of Israel had the titles of Son of God and Messiah/Christ. Thus the Son of God was the Messiah/Christ and the Messiah/Christ was the Son of God. This connection between the two titles was clearly understood at the time of Jesus for we see the two titles used together:
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" ... Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:13-16, NIV)
Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.(Matthew 26:62-64, NIV)
Hopefully now you can understand what the Bible means when it talks about the Son of God. It is not talking about God having sex and producing a baby. The title Son of God does not even imply divinity in the person for, as we have seen, the nation of Israel and her king were call God's son. Jesus is the true fulfillment of the Son of God. He is the true son of David, the true Israel. He is the true son who received the inheritance from his Father God. This inheritance was the kingdom of God itself.
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28:18, NIV)
Now does the Qur'an make clearer the Bible's teaching about the "Son of God"? The answer is no! In fact the Qur'an misunderstands and confuses this teaching from the Bible. Throughout the Qur'an it denies that Jesus is the Son of God yet mistakenly still calls him the Messiah.
The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was no more than God's apostle and his Word which He cast to Mary (Sura 4:171, Dawood).
The Jews say, Ezra is the "Son of God"; the Christians say, "The Messiah is the Son of God." That is the utterance of there mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted. (Sura 9:30, Arberry)
They say: "God has begotten a son" God forbid! (Sura 10:68, Dawood)
The Qur'an shows no understanding of the meaning of the title "Son of God". In the Qur'an it means nothing more than to imply that God had sex, and as we have seen from the Bible this is not what the title means. In the Qur'an Jesus is given the title of Messiah and yet denied the title of the Son of God; the Bible clearly teaches that both of these titles go together.
Again we see that what was clearly taught in the Bible is confused by the Qur'an and has led to confusion and disagreements between Muslims and Christians. The Qur'an claims to make clearer the teaching of the Bible but this claim is false. It does not make clearer the Bible's teaching, in fact it only confuses it.
Ramadhan
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I was born in a muslim family and learnt and practiced all obligations as a muslim.
But then I strayed, and at a time was even more of an agnostic.
I learned other religions, but the other religions just did not make sense to me because they left too many questions unanswered and too contradictory.
Through trials and tribulations of life, I automatically came back to my roots, and re-learned intensively Islam, Alhamdulillah.
My academic background is chemical engineering, so I am used to think in logical manner and through my studies of Qur'an, I concluded that Islam is the most logical choice and it makes the most sense.
But then I strayed, and at a time was even more of an agnostic.
I learned other religions, but the other religions just did not make sense to me because they left too many questions unanswered and too contradictory.
Through trials and tribulations of life, I automatically came back to my roots, and re-learned intensively Islam, Alhamdulillah.
My academic background is chemical engineering, so I am used to think in logical manner and through my studies of Qur'an, I concluded that Islam is the most logical choice and it makes the most sense.
The reason why Christians feel they must believe that Christ is Son of God is to claim that God so loved the world He sacrificed His only son.
If people started thinking that Jesus was a revolutionary who ended up executed for his views, it is not quite so romantic or potent a story, is it?
It was a spin later Christians put on to explain Christ's ignominious end.
If people started thinking that Jesus was a revolutionary who ended up executed for his views, it is not quite so romantic or potent a story, is it?
It was a spin later Christians put on to explain Christ's ignominious end.
I'm not a muslim, I'm an atheist. What make you believe in christian god?
Why do you worship a being that has no evidence for its existance? (incidently the bible is not evidence, such as the quran is not evidence, the book of mormon is not evidence or vedic scripture is not evidence)
AntiKarateKid
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Moreover it is you who shows no understanding of the concept. I see your game now. Quoting from answering Islam are we now? Reply to my other point.
Moreover, if Jesus was God, how was authority GIVEN to him? Wasn't he God in the first place? If you want a rebuttal to your argument, see answering Christianity then.
"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7
Since the verse is speaking of the moment of adult reproduction it can't be talking about the time of embryonic development. Moreover, since 'sulb' is being used in conjunction with 'gushing fluid', which can only be physical; and 'tara'ib' which is another physical word for chest or thorax or ribs, it can't be euphemistic. Therefore, we are left with the very real problem that the semen is coming from the back or kidney area and not the testicles.
"Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh ..." (Al-Baqara 2:259)
The Koran gives the impression that first the skeleton is formed, and then it is clothed with mustle. Dr. Bucaille knows perfectly well that this is not true. The muscles and the cartilage precursors of the bones start forming from the somite at the same time. At the end of the eighth week there are only a few centers of ossification started but the fetus is already capable of some muscular movement. There is no time when calcified bones have been formed and then the muscles are placed around them. The muscles are there several weeks before there are calcified bones, rather than being added around previously formed bones as the Qur'an states. The Qur'an is in complete error here
how do you deal with this scientific error of quran ? If it was inspired by Allah, creator of mankind, Allah should know right, no ?
If no God exists, you remain with chance. Chance is nothing. From nothing, nothing derives.
1. Life (on earth) (and was not the origin of all being).
When and where life arose to be - pre-existed the absolute death (no life in the universe). So has death created life, which is contrary to all experience of all mankind. Because life is ahead of the death and not vice versa.
The assertion that life can arise, is completely arbitrary. There are not a single reason for that claim.
2.Matter possesses the ability of self-organization.
At the same time matter is dead, lifeless, without intelligence , unconsciously, brainless, ignorant, aimlessly.
Matter (mass and energy) has no ability.
Thus, although matter has no ability, should it still (perversely) organize itself in a absolutely perfect mathematical way - we now know that all matter is logarithmic, which most people are not able to understand! how can an entire random space in mathematically perfect way organize itself and create new material and put together randomly so that even life is possible? Even a single cell is more complicated than all the technological achievements of mankind together.
3. Matter can produce life.
Would (dead, ignorant, brainless) matter really able to create life, then followed it would be imperative that we (living, intelligent, knowing) people can understand this process . But we can not even understand a single living cell spawn, let alone a blade of grass. Life is not a manifestation of matter, which is why the creation of life through matter in opposition to the energy conservation law, because then something would arise, that is not matter, since we know that our thoughts are not consistent of material, but of spiritual nature.
4. Life has evolved through random changes in genetic material (mutation) and selection (selective breeding).
Due to the radioactive contamination of our planet by means of atomic bomb explosions and nuclear bomb production facilities (nuclear power), are always random changes in genetic material (mutations) can be observed. Except to life inabile mutated plants, animals and humans is nothing to recognize, therefore, only instead of decay development.
5. Life emerged in the so-called primordial soup on Earth
from the possibility of production of synthetic fibers (nylon), which are long chain molecules, each chemist knows that the production of these long molecules is possible only in absolute dryness . Small quantities of water, the chain formation immediately stops. Consequently, it is impossible that a long chain molecules such as DNA arised and developed in the midst of water, in the primordial soup, a scientific proof of the falsity of the allegation of the emergence of life on Earth.
6. The central nervous system of humans, the brain, is able to think.
Matter can convert only in one of its manifestations , but not something immaterial . Soul and spirit are no matter, there are no manifestations of matter, but spirit is the opposite of matter. Therefore, the assertion of man as spirit beings was a random product of self-organizing matter, is contrary to the energy conservation movement, the base of all natural science. Remains the possibility that we are apes with the ability to speak, without souls and spirit.
Thought transmission is experimentally demonstrated on several occasions. Thoughts are no manifestations of matter. Even this is scientifically proven. http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-209.htm
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Tony
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PERVERSIONS...... Jesus the son of God is a perversion of the truth
I was given divine giudance to realise that Jesus(pbuh) was a prophet by Allah Himself in the media of a well known book, THE NOBLE QUR,AN, and by prorhet Muhammad(pbuh) in his beautiful and extensive life and hadiths respectivley. How anyone gives credit to the bible is a mystery to me, it has been warped and changed that many times due to male influences and socio-economic perversion to keep poor and low in their places, the bible has become somewhat of a farce which is why its followers have to burn my friend. Allah has always been Allah, even the prophets (pbut) that we both believe in bear witness to that. Hope this is of some help, peace
Right up untill the last two posts I was prepared to respect you and ur beliefs, but how can u use scientific proofs in the Qur,an to try and undermine Islam, it doesnt even make sense !!!
Just give me one proof that christianity is right, if you cannot then you stick to your way and we ours, on the day of recompense we will stand together, I will be smilling
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sorry, but i don't talk to extremists and terrorists who wish me to burn.
have a nice day.