"I dont want to listen to those Wahhabi fools"

[Abz2000]

"Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abd-al-Wahhab was a great scholar. you can find about him on wikipedia here"

thanks for that link bro - i read about that great man - he is a true revolutionary - and a sincere fundamentalist - both at the same time!!! even now, his truth lives on, this is what made me an immediate fan - an then i found out that i've read one of his books - abridged biography of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and have even recommended it on this forum - didn't know it was him, the man doesn't mince words:

Like most scholars in Najd at the time, Ibn Abd-al-Wahhab was a follower of Ibn Hanbal's school of jurisprudence but

"was opposed to any of the schools (Madh'hab) being taken as an absolute and unquestioned authority," and condemned taqlid.[SUP][17]
[/SUP]
(i agree with that somewhat - as you are no longer on the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) if you take one scholar's opinions as gospel while rejecting the valid opinions of other scholars,
and today - we have more hadith at our fingertips than all those scholars put together - though their ijtihad on what they had available was great and worthy of recognition.
that's what the jews did and then they ended up rejecting some parts of the Torah revealed to Moses (pbuh) while clinging to the traditions of the scribes and elders.

11. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,
which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying,
Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Arabic:
Gabriel "Iqra"
Muhammad (pbuh) "ma - ana bi qarin"

English:
- Read
i am not learned


13Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me,

and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder:
for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay:
for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not?
or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Isaiah 29

After his return to 'Uyayna, Ibn Abd al-Wahhab began to attract followers there, including the ruler of the town, Uthman ibn Mu'ammar. With Ibn Mu'ammar's support, Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab began to implement some of his ideas for reform. First, he persuaded ibn Mu'ammar to level the grave of Zayd ibn al-Khattab, a companion of the Muslim prophet Muhammad whose grave was revered by locals, citing Islamicteachings that forbid grave worship. Secondly, he ordered that all adulterors and adultresses be stoned to death, a practice that had become uncommon in the area. These actions gained the attention of Sulaiman ibn Muhammad ibn Ghurayr of the tribe of Bani Khalid, the chief ofAl-Hasa and Qatif, who held substantial influence in Najd. Ibn Ghurayr threatened Ibn Mu'ammar that he would not allow him to collect a land tax for some properties that he owned in al-Hasa if he did not kill ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab. Ibn Mu'ammar declined to do this, but ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab was forced to leave.[SUP][18][/SUP] Foremost among his detractors were his own father and brother.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

I am religious but I wouldn't listen to the cultist, backward fools either.

Islam was doing great and was the world's most successful civilization. Allah rewarded Muslims and Islamic empires.

Ever since Salafism was adopted, everything has gone to the dogs.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[AbdurRahman.]

Lolol!!!

"I don't want to listen to those wahhabi fool's"!!! :Emoji46::Emoji46::Emoji46:

Why don't you try to make him listen to some non salafi scholars then?, they're ok
:

 

[CuriousonTruth]

Lolol!!!

"I don't want to listen to those wahhabi fool's"!!! :Emoji46::Emoji46::Emoji46:

Why don't you try to make him listen to some non salafi scholars then?, they're ok
:

Well the salafist kingdom has financed their beliefs and aqeedah and translated the works of their scholars.

Classical ashari, Sufi works are nearly all in Arabic or Farsi. And most muslims don't know either.

I have ambition of learning Farsi one day but that day is not today.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

Well the salafist kingdom has financed their beliefs and aqeedah and translated the works of their scholars.

Classical ashari, Sufi works are nearly all in Arabic or Farsi. And most muslims don't know either.

I have ambition of learning Farsi one day but that day is not today.

No no, the ashari and maturidi or 'madhabi' works are divinely protected; have a read through this link bro. Allah will protect the correct sect till the last day:

http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-as-sunnah-wal-jamaah/

You know Allah says in Quran that he'll protect the Quran till the last day?, well there wouldn't be any point just protecting the text of Quran and letting it's correct interpretation get corrupted will it? So what Allah means is that a group of people will always have the correct practice and interpretation of the Quran till the last day as well as the Quran text being protected

 

[CuriousonTruth]

No no, the ashari and maturidi or 'madhabi' works are divinely protected; have a read through this link bro. Allah will protect the correct sect till the last day:

http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-as-sunnah-wal-jamaah/

You know Allah says in Quran that he'll protect the Quran till the last day?, well there wouldn't be any point just protecting the text of Quran and letting it's correct interpretation get corrupted will it? So what Allah means is that a group of people will always have the correct practice and interpretation of the Quran till the last day as well as the Quran text being protected

When did I say it is not. I said it's is Farsi and Arabic. And most muslims outside Arab countries don't know either.

I know Marifa.net translates some works but it's very limited.

So I decided to learn the language eventually.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

When did I say it is not. I said it's is Farsi and Arabic. And most muslims outside Arab countries don't know either.

I know Marifa.net translates some works but it's very limited.

So I decided to learn the language eventually.

It doesn't matter if there's Arabic translations of traditional fiqh books, they're translated or authored by mainstream Scholars and not salafi's

You'll be more at risk with farsi translations, the Iranian shias have probably m3ddled with them!

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

No no, the ashari and maturidi or 'madhabi' works are divinely protected; have a read through this link bro. Allah will protect the correct sect till the last day:

And who is more unjust than he who invents a lie about Allah? Those will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord." Unquestionably, the curse of Allah is upon the wrongdoers.

[Qur'aan 11:18]

http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-as-sunnah-wal-jamaah/

You know Allah says in Quran that he'll protect the Quran till the last day?, well there wouldn't be any point just protecting the text of Quran and letting it's correct interpretation get corrupted will it? So what Allah means is that a group of people will always have the correct practice and interpretation of the Quran till the last day as well as the Quran text being protected

Ibn Qudaamah writes:


What is amazing is that their (i.e ashaa'irah) leader (i.e. Abul-Hasan al-Ashari) who established their beliefs was a man not known for his religion or piety, nor was he known for any of the Sacred sciences. In fact, he belongs to no science except the science of blameworthy Kalam. All the while they acknowledge that he spent 40 years adhering to Mu'tazili doctrine, and then pretended to have retracted from it, however, nothing could be seen from him after his repentance except this Bid'ah.



حكاية المناظرة في القرآن
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Yaḥyā bin ʿAmmār (d. 422 AH) said:

“The Muʿtazilites are the effeminates (makhānīth) of
the Jahmites and the Ashʿarites are the effeminates of the
Muʿtazilites.”

[Majmuʿ al-Fatāwā 6/359]


Quite clearly you haven't read any of their works and are just another chop and copy paste guy. How disappointing.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

And who is more unjust than he who invents a lie about Allah? Those will be presented before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied against their Lord." Unquestionably, the curse of Allah is upon the wrongdoers.

[Qur'aan 11:18]





Ibn Qudaamah writes:


What is amazing is that their (i.e ashaa'irah) leader (i.e. Abul-Hasan al-Ashari) who established their beliefs was a man not known for his religion or piety, nor was he known for any of the Sacred sciences. In fact, he belongs to no science except the science of blameworthy Kalam. All the while they acknowledge that he spent 40 years adhering to Mu'tazili doctrine, and then pretended to have retracted from it, however, nothing could be seen from him after his repentance except this Bid'ah.



حكاية المناظرة في القرآن
Page 52



View attachment 6668





Yaḥyā bin ʿAmmār (d. 422 AH) said:

“The Muʿtazilites are the effeminates (makhānīth) of
the Jahmites and the Ashʿarites are the effeminates of the
Muʿtazilites.”

[Majmuʿ al-Fatāwā 6/359]


Quite clearly you haven't read any of their works and are just another chop and copy paste guy. How disappointing.

(17) Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: “Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah’s hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell.” (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

Imam al-Azizi (d. 1070/1660; Rahimahullah) quoted Imam al-Munawi’s (d. 1031/1622; Rahimahullah) commentary to the last Hadith in his al-Siraj al-munir sharh al-Jami al-saghir (3.449), as follows:- Allah’s hand is over the group

(al-Azizi): Munawi says, “Meaning his protection and preservation of them, signifying that the collectivity of the people of Islam are in Allah’s fold, so be also in Allah’s shelter, in the midst of them, and do not separate yourselves from them.” The rest of the Hadith, according to the one who first recorded it (Tirmidhi), is:-

and whoever descents from them departs to hell.

Meaning that whoever diverges from the overwhelming majority concerning what is lawful or unlawful and on which the Community does not differ has slipped off the path of guidance and this will lead him to hell.” (vide: The Reliance of the Traveller, pg. 25)

http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-as-sunnah-wal-jamaah/


there is much evidence that the orthodox majority of the Umma is divinely protected from error, such as the sahih hadith related by al-Hakim that "Allah's hand is over the group, and whoever diverges from them diverges to hell" (al-Mustadrak, 1.116).

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/studyh.htm


Indeed We have revealed the Zikr (ie. the Qur’ân) and surely We will preserve it. (15:9)

In this verse, Allâh Almighty has assured the preservation of the Holy Qur’ân. This implies that the Qur’ân will remain uninterpolated and that it shall always be transferred from one generation to the other in its real and original form, undistorted by any foreign element. The question now is whether this divine protection is restricted only to the words of the Holy Qur’ân or does it extend to its real meanings as well. If the prophetic explanation is necessary to understand the Holy Qur’ân correctly, as proved in the first chapter, then the preservation of the Qur’ânic words alone cannot serve the purpose unless the prophetic explanations are also preserved. As quoted earlier, the Holy Book says,

We have revealed to you the Zikr (Qur’ân) so that you may explain to the people what has been sent down for them.

The word “Zikr” has been used here for the Holy Qur’ân as has been used in the verse 15:9 and it has been made clear that the people can only benefit from its guidance when they are led by the explanations of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Again, the words “for the people” indicate (especially in the original Arabic context), that the Holy Prophet’s (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) explanation is always needed by “everyone.”

Now, if everyone, in every age is in need of the prophetic explanation, without which they cannot fully benefit from the Holy Book, how would it be useful for them to preserve the Qur’ânic text and leave its prophetic explanation at the mercy of distorters, extending to it no type of protection whatsoever.

Therefore, once the necessity of the prophetic explanations of the Holy Qur’ân is accepted, it will be self-contradictory to claim that these explanations are unavailable today. It will amount to negating the divine wisdom, because it is in no way a wise policy to establish the necessity of the sunnah on the one hand and to make its discovery impossible on the other. Such a policy cannot be attributed to Allâh, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

https://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/asunnah1.htm

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

(17) Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: “Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah’s hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell.” (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

See this is your problem. You chop and paste from the internet after frantically searching for an answer and in the process mislead people. Had you read any works of the classical scholars (which you obviously haven't and probably cannot), you would know that they understand that Hadiith to mean to refer to Ijmaa and not the majority.

But given the websites you chop from, what would you know about classical scholars would you?

Can you even define when the period of the Salaf ended and when the period of the khalaf started?

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

Another really interesting thing the modern Ashari/Maturidi will never tell you is that the Maturidis have made takfiir of the beliefs of the Ashaa'irah in the past.


The Ashaa'irah believe Imaan is created.

The Maaturidis say anyone who says Imaan is created has disbelieved and one cannot marry such a person or pray behind him.


So, there has never been an Ijmaa on the matter of Aqiidah. Heck, there has never been a majority on it either.

The very groups who claim to be united today made takfiir of one another in the past. But why would they tell you this?

 

[Muhammad]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Please do not bump such old threads only to create an argument, and that too regarding sectarian issues. This thread is now closed.