I Know the Quran states Jesus wasnt Crucified...

['Abd-al Latif]

This isn't the thread for a discussion on the prophecy of Deut 18, but I'll make a few brief comments:

Firstly, that a number of the points you've made are not even unique to prophets, let alone specific prophets (eg the majority of human beings have fathers and mothers, marry and die, so these points are hardly relevant, and being a military leader is not a general feature of prophets).

I wasn't naming the uniqueness of Prophets, I was stating the similarities between Moses and Muhammad which christians think it to be Jesus. My point was to state that Christians think that Moses was talking about Jesus when Moses said in Deuteronomy 18:18 of a prophet to be sent by God who will resemble him. What Deuteronomy 18:18 actually says is that the Prophet sent by god will be:

1) From among the Israelite's "brethren", a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins as Ishmael was the other son of Abraham who was explicitly promised to become a "great nation".

2) A prophet like unto Moses.

There were hardly any two prophets ,who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given comprehensive law code of life, both encountered their enemies and were victors in miraculous ways, both were accepted as prophets/statesmen and both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlooks not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well (e.g. the natural birth, family life and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus, who was regarded by His followers as the Son of God and not exclusively a messenger of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslim belief Jesus was).

Secondly, being accepted as a prophet by the people is not a unique feature of Moses' prophethood - plenty of other OT prophets fit the bill quite nicely here, Joshua for example. Also it's pretty difficult to determine whether a prophet has been overall accepted - after all Jesus was massively accepted by the Jewish poor (the majority) among others, but not the Pharisees and those in power. So what is the definition of "overall"? Generally a bit of a dodgy likeness to use I think.

Again, my point was to talk about the three main Prophets and they are Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and not anyone before them.

And on the contrary it's quite easy to determine whether a Prophet was overall accepted or not through simple observation: his success as achieved as a Prophet during his life, implimention of gods commands on earth and the acceptance and obdience of his people towards him as a man sent by god etc.

As far as the poor accepting the Prophet's of god then this is a common trait seen amongst the Prophets. The poor have no preconditions whereas the rich do not want to lose their authority over the people. Due to their arragonce, they reject the Prophets.

And the definition of "overall" means that a Prophet had enemies and those who opposed him, but the majorty accepted him as a man sent by god. Those who opposed him were eliminated and the Prophet became virtually a king amongst his people who established the law of god on earth. Moses and Muhammad have this similarity whereas jesus proclaimed to his people "my kingdom is not of this world" meaning he is not a ruler or king and cannot impose such authority as a king would.

Muhammad's (saaws) life is a perfect example of this. I recommend that you read his biography, a book called "Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom (The Sealed Necter)" which will illustrate this point perfectly. http://store.dar-us-salam.com/product/004b.html

Thirdly, the giving of Law. Well, Jesus does give new law (the "but I say to you" passages come to mind among others). Indeed, what is the Injil if not a list of teachings?

The Injeel (Gospel) is a confirmation of what was in the Torah.

Allah says:

“And in their footsteps, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Torah that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)” [al-Maa'idah 5:46]

This is the same in the bible where jesus said "I have come to follow the torah dot by dot, jot by jot."

He also said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17)

Finally, I'd not heard of the story you gave of Mohammed speaking face to face, so I apologise. We learn something every day. May I ask where this is found in Islamic sources? Thanks.

Qur'an, hadeeth, statements from his companions etc.

In any case, as I'm sure you're aware, the prophecy depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "your brothers", and not who can make the longest list of likenesses. Obviously the Muslim will interpret this as meaning "the Ishmaelites", but I haven't seen any other passage in the OT where this phrase has meant this (for example earlier on in chapter 18 the phrase quite clearly means "fellow Israelites" after examining verses 1 and 2). This is clearly the definitive category which determines whether or not Mohammed would be eligible to fulfill this prophecy (and if a strong case can be made based on the usage of the key phrase that the passage is referring to Ishmaelites then the case for Mohammed is strong indeed, though all evidence seems to point to the contrary as far as I can see).

That wasn't quite as brief as I had planned. :-[ But it's an important passage that deserves a thread in its own right (though I'm sure it's been discussed many times already anyway!).

Salam,
Shoes

It does not depend on the interpertation because the lineage of Abraham is simple. Going back to the Torah, in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 it says:

“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.”

(New International Version)

With regard to the phrase “from among their brothers” – if that prophet were to be from among the Children of Israel, it would have said, “I will raise up for them a prophet from among them.” But it says “from among their brothers” – i.e., from among the sons of Ismaa’eel (Ishamel). Ishamel is the father of the arabs because the arabs are his offspring whereas Isaac is the father of the Jews because his offspring are the jews ad both of them (i.e. Ishamel and Isaac) are the offspring of Araham. So this makes it perfectly clear that the 'brothers/brethren' here is specifically referring to the arabs and no one else.

Anyhow, this is the discover Islam section. If you would like to carry this conversation then please create a new thread in the Comparative Religion section. As for this thread then I believe it the answer has been given and the thread starter is not requiring anything else so I will be closing this thread.

If the thread starter has any objections or wants to discuss anything then please feel free to PM me.

:threadclo