I need guidance

[InToTheRain]

It's feasable for every muslim to pursue Ulamas who adhere to Saheeh Ahadees and has no excuse whatsoever to reject them in favour of opinions of other Ulamas.

Imam Hanafi and his Shura prefer to remain silent while the Imam says Surah Fatiha, Imam Shafi and his Shura prefer to say Al-Fatiha even behind the Imam. Which follower of Sahih Hadith should I favor because I can't do both at the same time!

Also following a Madhab does not mean rejecting Sahih Hadiths rather giving preference to some hadiths over others hence there is a difference in opinion.

 

[Vlad]

Say your whole life you follow a madhab, and in later life you come to know through and Alim that regarding a certain aspect Prophet Muhammad did exactly opposite. Why would not you follow your Prophet? What is the matter with you that you hardly understand?

Imam Hanafi and his Shura prefer to remain silent while the Imam says Surah Fatiha, Imam Shafi and his Shura prefer to say Al-Fatiha even behind the Imam. Which follower of Sahih Hadith should I favor because I can't do both at the same time!

Also following a Madhab does not mean rejecting Sahih Hadiths rather giving preference to some hadiths over others hence there is a difference in opinion.

In the famous words of Imam Abu Haneefah : “If the hadeeth is saheeh then that is my madhhab.” And he said: “It is not permissible for anyone to follow what we say if they do not know where we got it from.” According to another report he said: “It is haraam for the one who does not know my evidence to issue a fatwa based on my words.” And according to another report he added: “We are human, we may say something today and retract it tomorrow.” And he said: “If I say something that goes against the Book of Allaah or the report of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then ignore what I say.”


Sincere piece of advise by Imam al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) : “There is no one who will not be unaware of some of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whatever I say or whatever guidelines I establish, if there is a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which is different to what I said, then what matters is what the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, and that is my opinion.”

Imam Hanafi and his Shura prefer to remain silent while the Imam says Surah Fatiha, Imam Shafi and his Shura prefer to say Al-Fatiha even behind the Imam. Which follower of Sahih Hadith should I favor because I can't do both at the same time!

Also following a Madhab does not mean rejecting Sahih Hadiths rather giving preference to some hadiths over others hence there is a difference in opinion.

Following a Madhab precisely means rejecting Sahih Hadiths(not in all aspects) and giving prefrence to mursal, daee'f hadiths and opinions.

As I have already said:

You have certainly no excuse whatsoever for not following Ahadiths. Imam Abu Haneefah lived at the time of tribulation so the other Imams and it was impossible for them to have the collection of all Saheeh Ahadiths.

For example; There are mursal hadiths that says Imam Hassan(r.a) had 90 wives. I have seen countless Ulamas saying yeah that is the correct opinion. But if you refer to Ahl al-Hadeeth they would tell you 90 wives have been sourced in the narration of the Mada'ini and Waqidi, both of them have been attributed with lies:

Contemporary scholars opinion about Waqidi:
-Ahmad bin Hanbal said: He is a liar.
-Yahya bin Ma’een said: He used to take the hadith of Ma’amar and attribute it to Yunus; he is not trustworthy.
-Ali bin Al-Madeeni said: Al-Haytham bin Adi is more reliable than Al-Waqidi, and I don’t take hadiths, genealogy, or anything from him.
-Al-Shafi’ee said: All his books are lies.
-Al-Nasa’ee included him as one of the four infamous liars.
-Abu Dawud: I have no doubts that he fabricated hadiths.
-Ishaq bin Rahawaih said: He is a fabricator of narrations.
-Abu Hatim said: He fabricated.

Now if someone come across this sort of information then why would he not change his opinion to: Imam Hussan(r.a) never married 90 times?

Similarly, if you come across information that says Prophet Muhammad prayed like that, then you should follow your Prophet.


Four Madhabs? Why should not I follow my Prophet and Ulamas who adhere to Ahadees?

As Al Khateeb al-Baghdadi said:

Every group has its own focal point which is based on whims and desires, apart from the people of hadeeth, whose reference point is the Qur’aan, whose evidence is the Sunnah and whose leader is the Messenger to whom they belong; they do not pay any attention to whims and desires, and they do not care about personal opinions. They are content with what is narrated from the Messenger, and they are the ones who are entrusted with it and they take care of it. They are the guardians and keepers of the faith, the vessels and bearers of knowledge. If there is a difference of opinion concerning a hadeeth, people refer to them, and what they rule is what is accepted and listened to. Among them are prominent faqeehs, great imams, ascetics who are well-known among their tribes, men who are known for their virtue, skilled reciters of Qur’aan and good speakers.

 

[InToTheRain]

As I have already said:

You have certainly no excuse whatsoever for not following Ahadiths. Imam Abu Haneefah lived at the time of tribulation so the other Imams and it was impossible for them to have the collection of all Saheeh Ahadiths.

1) When the Imams mentioned correcting ones opinion for a better one they were refering to their peers in the field and their Shura not unqualified laymen.

2) The science of Hadith classification was made by people who followed a Madhab! Imam Bukhari(RA) followed one, do you know about Sahih hadiths better than him?

3) Your telling me to practice Ijtihad when I lack the qualifications to do so. If I where to read Qur'an and Sunnah and interpret according to my understanding than I can make a new religion if I wanted! You need to interpret the way it has been interpreted by Mohammad(SAW), Sahabah, Tabi'een and so on. Basically follow a Madhab.

4) To have the qualifications to make Ijtihad is not easy and yes it is comparable to "rocket science" :

In order to protect the Shariah from the danger of innovation and distortion, the great scholars of usul laid down rigorous conditions which must be fulfilled by anyone wishing to claim the right of ijtihad for himself.[43] These conditions include:

(a) mastery of the Arabic language, to minimise the possibility of misinterpreting Revelation on purely linguistic grounds;
(b) a profound knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and the circumstances surrounding the revelation of each verse and hadith, together with a full knowledge of the Quranic and hadith commentaries, and a control of all the interpretative techniques discussed above;
(c) knowledge of the specialised disciplines of hadith, such as the assessment of narrators and of the matn [text];
(d) knowledge of the views of the Companions, Followers and the great imams, and of the positions and reasoning expounded in the textbooks of fiqh, combined with the knowledge of cases where a consensus (ijma) has been reached;
(e) knowledge of the science of juridical analogy (qiyas), its types and conditions;
(f) knowledge of ones own society and of public interest (maslahah);
(g) knowing the general objectives (maqasid) of the Shariah;
(h) a high degree of intelligence and personal piety, combined with the Islamic virtues of compassion, courtesy, and modesty.

5) You still haven't answered the question. Should I say Surah Fatiha when reading behind and Imam or not?

 

[Vlad]

1) When the Imams mentioned correcting ones opinion for a better one they were refering to their peers in the field and their Shura not unqualified laymen.

2) The science of Hadith classification was made by people who followed a Madhab! Imam Bukhari(RA) followed one, do you know about Sahih hadiths better than him?



3) Your telling me to practice Ijtihad when I lack the qualifications to do so. If I where to read Qur'an and Sunnah and interpret according to my understanding than I can make a new religion if I wanted! You need to interpret the way it has been interpreted by Mohammad(SAW), Sahabah, Tabi'een and so on. Basically follow a Madhab.

4) To have the qualifications to make Ijtihad is not easy and yes it is comparable to "rocket science" :

5) You still haven't answered the question. Should I say Surah Fatiha when reading behind and Imam or not?

SUBHANALLAH the reasons you put forward for not following those Ulamas who adhere to Ahadees, it would be more appropriate if I say, the reasons you put forward for rejecting the established Sunnah.


[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]The hadeeth “The recitation of the imaam is the recitation of the one who is praying behind him” is da’eef (weak). [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]“There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book [i.e., al-Faatihah].” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 714). [/FONT]

4) To have the qualifications to make Ijtihad is not easy and yes it is comparable to "rocket science" :

What is the need to make Ijtihad when there are Ulamas who are presenting forward authentic hadith that your Prophet did that and that?




Don't make the religion difficult for him, where there is an authentic hadith (you would only come to know if you follow Ahl Hadees) that contradicts the opinion of an Imam then follow the saheeh hadith . If the answer is not in hadith then follow the opinion that is more correct and closet to Ahadith.

1) When the Imams mentioned correcting ones opinion for a better one they were refering to their peers in the field and their Shura not unqualified laymen.

Where did I say that one should follow unqualified laymen?

 

[InToTheRain]

SUBHANALLAH the reasons you put forward for not following those Ulamas who adhere to Ahadees, it would be more appropriate if I say, the reasons you put forward for rejecting the established Sunnah.


[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]The hadeeth “The recitation of the imaam is the recitation of the one who is praying behind him” is da’eef (weak). [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]“There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book [i.e., al-Faatihah].” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 714). [/FONT]

Please show how each of these hadiths are weak:

If you are praying in a congregation then you should not read anything behind the Imam.

Allâh says: And when the Qur'ân is recited, listen to it attentively and remain silent, that you may receive mercy.[74]

Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah radiallahu anhu says, 'Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam turned around after a salâh in which he had recited loudly. He enquired, "Has any one of you recited (behind me)?" A man replied, "I did." Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, "I say: what is it with me? I am being contested for the Qur'ân." After the people heard this from Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam they stopped reciting with him (behind him) in those salâh in which he would pray loudly.'[75]

Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah radiallahu anhu reports that Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, 'The Imam has been appointed so that he may be followed. Thus, when he says the takbeer, you say it also, and when he recites remain silent.'[76]

Sayyiduna Abu Musa al Ash'ari radiallahu anhu says, 'Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam taught us that "When you stand up for prayer one of you should lead the rest, and when the Imam recites remain silent."[77]

Abu Wail reports that Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Mas'ud radiallahu anhu was asked about reciting behind the Imam. He replied, 'Remain silent for the recitation (of the Imam). For indeed there is a duty in salâh for which the Imam is sufficient for you.'[78]

Nafi' reports that when Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Umar radiallahu anhu would be asked, 'Should one recite behind the Imam?' he would reply, 'When one of you prays behind the Imam then the Imam's recitation is sufficient for him. When he prays alone he should recite.' Nafi' adds, 'Abdullah bin Umar radiallahu anhu would not recite behind the Imam.'[79]Sayyiduna Jabir bin Abdullah radiallahu anhu relates that Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, 'One who prays behind an Imam, the recitation of the Imam is sufficient for him.'[80]

The above hadeeth has also been reported from Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam on the authority of the noble Sahâbah Anas,[81] Abdullah bin Abbas,[82] Abu Hurairah,[83] Abu Saeed al Khudri,[84] Abdullah bin Umar,[85] Ali,[86] and Abu al Dardaa [87]radiallahu anhum.

Ahadeeth such as those above stressing the obligation of Sûrah al Fâtihah are for the Imam or the individual, not the muqtadi. Imam Tirmidhi has quoted Imam Ahmad who commented on the above hadeeth (There is no salâh for one...) by saying 'This is if he is alone.'

Wahb bin Kaysan reports that he heard Sayyiduna Jabir bin Abdullah radiallahu anhu say, 'He who prays one rak'ah in which he does not recite Sûrah al Fâtihah has in fact not prayed at all, unless he is behind an Imam.'[88]

[74] Al A'raaf 7/204.

[75] Malik 194, Ahmad 7760, Ibn Majah 849, Abu Dawood 826, Tirmidhi 312 and Nasai 919.

[76] Ahmad 9151. Also reported by Ahmad bin Manee' and Abd bin Humaid in their Musnads with a saheeh sanad as quoted by Bouseeree in Misbah al Zujajah Chapter 150, hadeeth 313. Narrated also by Ibn Majah 846, Abu Dawood 603, Nasai 921 & 922 and Tahawi 1/217. Imam Nimawi says that its isnad is saheeh. Allamah Abdul Hayy Luckhnawi categorically concludes in his Imam al Kalam, p 165 that the hadeeth is authentic after quoting a number of ulama who have declared it saheeh including Imam Ahmad. For details of Allamah Abdul Hayy Luckhnawi's life, learning and works see the biographies.

[77] Ahmad 19224, Muslim 404 (as part of a longer hadeeth), and Ibn Majah 847.

[78] Imam Muhammad in his al Muwatta 120 & 122, Ibn Abi Shaibah 3780, and Tahawi 1/217. Imam Nimawi says 369 that its isnad is saheeh.

[79] Malik 193.

[80] Imam Abu Hanifah as recorded in the Musnad of Khaskafi p307 and in Jam'i al Masaneed 1/ 334; Imam Muhammad in his al Muwatta 117 and in his Kitab al Hujjah 1/118 with an isnad declared saheeh by Hafidh Badr al Deen al Aini and Imam Nimawi 364. Also reported by Ibn Abi Shaibah 3802 with an isnad classified saheeh by Ibn at Turkumani 2/228; Ahmad 14233; Abd bin Humaid 1050; Ahmad bin Manee' with a saheeh isnad as quoted by Imam Nimawi 364; Ibn Majah 850; Tahawi 1/217 with an isnad declared saheeh by Hafidh Ibn al Humam as mentioned in the footnotes of Sharh Maani al Athaar 1/217; and Baihaqi 2897.

[81] Ibn Hibban in his al Dhuafaa 2/202.

[82] Daruqutni 1238 & 1252.

[83] Daruqutni 1229 & 1230.

[84] Tabarani in al Mu'jam al Awsat as quoted by Hafidh Haithami 2/111. Hafidh Haithami says that the sanad contains Haroon al Abdi who is matrook.

[85] Daruqutni 1225.

[86] Daruqutni 1234.

[87] Daruqutni 1248.

[88] Malik 188 and Tirmidhi 313.

Also feel free to prove how all these hadith's are weak...Good luck!

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/Prayer.htm

 

[Vlad]

The fact that a student studied with a madhhab does not mean that he cannot go beyond it if he finds sound evidence elsewhere; the only one who stubbornly clings to a particular madhhab (regardless of the evidence) is one who lacking in religious commitment and intellect, or he is doing that because of partisan attachment to his madhhab.

Ibn Taymiyah :[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]No one has to blindly follow any particular man in all that he enjoins or forbids or recommends, apart from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). [/FONT]

Please show how each of these hadiths are weak:

If you are praying in a congregation then you should not read anything behind the Imam.

Allâh says: And when the Qur'ân is recited, listen to it attentively and remain silent, that you may receive mercy.[74]

Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah radiallahu anhu says, 'Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam turned around after a salâh in which he had recited loudly. He enquired, "Has any one of you recited (behind me)?" A man replied, "I did." Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, "I say: what is it with me? I am being contested for the Qur'ân." After the people heard this from Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam they stopped reciting with him (behind him) in those salâh in which he would pray loudly.'[75]




Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah radiallahu anhu reports that Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, 'The Imam has been appointed so that he may be followed. Thus, when he says the takbeer, you say it also, and when he recites remain silent.'[76]

Sayyiduna Abu Musa al Ash'ari radiallahu anhu says, 'Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam taught us that "When you stand up for prayer one of you should lead the rest, and when the Imam recites remain silent."[77]

Abu Wail reports that Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Mas'ud radiallahu anhu was asked about reciting behind the Imam. He replied, 'Remain silent for the recitation (of the Imam). For indeed there is a duty in salâh for which the Imam is sufficient for you.'[78]

Nafi' reports that when Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Umar radiallahu anhu would be asked, 'Should one recite behind the Imam?' he would reply, 'When one of you prays behind the Imam then the Imam's recitation is sufficient for him. When he prays alone he should recite.' Nafi' adds, 'Abdullah bin Umar radiallahu anhu would not recite behind the Imam.'[79]Sayyiduna Jabir bin Abdullah radiallahu anhu relates that Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, 'One who prays behind an Imam, the recitation of the Imam is sufficient for him.'[80]

The above hadeeth has also been reported from Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam on the authority of the noble Sahâbah Anas,[81] Abdullah bin Abbas,[82] Abu Hurairah,[83] Abu Saeed al Khudri,[84] Abdullah bin Umar,[85] Ali,[86] and Abu al Dardaa [87]radiallahu anhum.

Ahadeeth such as those above stressing the obligation of Sûrah al Fâtihah are for the Imam or the individual, not the muqtadi. Imam Tirmidhi has quoted Imam Ahmad who commented on the above hadeeth (There is no salâh for one...) by saying 'This is if he is alone.'

Wahb bin Kaysan reports that he heard Sayyiduna Jabir bin Abdullah radiallahu anhu say, 'He who prays one rak'ah in which he does not recite Sûrah al Fâtihah has in fact not prayed at all, unless he is behind an Imam.'[88]

[74] Al A'raaf 7/204.

[75] Malik 194, Ahmad 7760, Ibn Majah 849, Abu Dawood 826, Tirmidhi 312 and Nasai 919.

[76] Ahmad 9151. Also reported by Ahmad bin Manee' and Abd bin Humaid in their Musnads with a saheeh sanad as quoted by Bouseeree in Misbah al Zujajah Chapter 150, hadeeth 313. Narrated also by Ibn Majah 846, Abu Dawood 603, Nasai 921 & 922 and Tahawi 1/217. Imam Nimawi says that its isnad is saheeh. Allamah Abdul Hayy Luckhnawi categorically concludes in his Imam al Kalam, p 165 that the hadeeth is authentic after quoting a number of ulama who have declared it saheeh including Imam Ahmad. For details of Allamah Abdul Hayy Luckhnawi's life, learning and works see the biographies.

[77] Ahmad 19224, Muslim 404 (as part of a longer hadeeth), and Ibn Majah 847.

[78] Imam Muhammad in his al Muwatta 120 & 122, Ibn Abi Shaibah 3780, and Tahawi 1/217. Imam Nimawi says 369 that its isnad is saheeh.

[79] Malik 193.

[80] Imam Abu Hanifah as recorded in the Musnad of Khaskafi p307 and in Jam'i al Masaneed 1/ 334; Imam Muhammad in his al Muwatta 117 and in his Kitab al Hujjah 1/118 with an isnad declared saheeh by Hafidh Badr al Deen al Aini and Imam Nimawi 364. Also reported by Ibn Abi Shaibah 3802 with an isnad classified saheeh by Ibn at Turkumani 2/228; Ahmad 14233; Abd bin Humaid 1050; Ahmad bin Manee' with a saheeh isnad as quoted by Imam Nimawi 364; Ibn Majah 850; Tahawi 1/217 with an isnad declared saheeh by Hafidh Ibn al Humam as mentioned in the footnotes of Sharh Maani al Athaar 1/217; and Baihaqi 2897.

[81] Ibn Hibban in his al Dhuafaa 2/202.

[82] Daruqutni 1238 & 1252.

[83] Daruqutni 1229 & 1230.

[84] Tabarani in al Mu'jam al Awsat as quoted by Hafidh Haithami 2/111. Hafidh Haithami says that the sanad contains Haroon al Abdi who is matrook.

[85] Daruqutni 1225.

[86] Daruqutni 1234.

[87] Daruqutni 1248.

[88] Malik 188 and Tirmidhi 313.

Also feel free to prove how all these hadith's are weak...Good luck!

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/Prayer.htm

You have already answered yourself.


Rather you have to study the matter in more detail and find out more. If one of you is following a scholar who says that the one who is praying behind an imam has to recite al-Faatihah during prayers in which Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, and others are following a scholar who says that they must be silent and listen to the imam in prayers where Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, and that the imam’s recitation of al-Faatihah is sufficient, there is nothing wrong with that.

I follow the opinion which says its is obligatory:

The first opinion is that it is obligatory, the evidence for that being the general meaning of the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book [i.e., al-Faatihah].” And because when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught the one who had not prayed properly, he told him to recite al-Faatihah.


It was narrated in a saheeh report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to recite it in every rak’ah. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari: “It was proven that permission was given to the one who is praying behind an imaam to recite al-Faatihah in prayers in which Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, without any exceptions. That is what was narrated by al-Bukhaari in Juz’ al-Qiraa’ah, and by al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Hibbaan and others, from Makhool from Mahmood ibn al-Rabee’ from ‘Ubaadah, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stumbled in his recitation in Fajr, and when he finished he said, “Perhaps you recite behind your imaam?” They said, “Yes,” He said, “Do not do that, except for the Opening of the Book (al-Faaithah), for there is no prayer for the one who does not recite it.”


Now leave that issue aside for a minute, why don't you do rafa yadain?

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]Imaam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote a separate book on this issue which he calledJuz’ fi Raf’ al-Yadayn (Section on Raising the Hands), in which he proved that the hands should be raised at these two points on the prayer, and he strongly denounced those who go against that. He narrated that al-Hasan said: “The Companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to raise their hands during prayer when they bowed and when they stood up (from bowing).” Al-Bukhaari said, “Al-Hasan did not exclude any of the Sahaabah from that, and it was not proven that any one among the Sahaabah did not raise his hands.” [/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]See al-Majmoo’ by al-Nawawi, 3/399-406. [/FONT]

From this point would you follow the Sunnah of your Prophet after coming across the information that hadiths about not raising hands are all daee'f?

 

[Muhammad]

:wasalamex

Brothers, this is not something to create a debate over. The most important thing here is to recognise the blessing our brother has received to turn away from being a Shi'a and come to the truth of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah, Alhamdulillah.

We respect all the four maddhabs as they are based on the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah. Their Imams are accepted by the Ummah. They each strive to follow the truth insofar as they are able to.

There is obviously disagreement with regards to being restricted to one particular maddhab. Let us refrain from making this a cause for division and splitting. Rather with more knowledge we will :ia: understand better and become more tolerant. It would be a greater harm to turn someone away from the correct Aqeedah than debating whether one should stick to one maddhab or not.

Whilst searching, I found the following paragraph which is an important reminder:

We would like to advise our brothers from Ahl Al-Hadeeth to call their Muslim brothers to Allaah kindly, leniently, and wisely given the prevalence of ignorance. Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means): {Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.}[Quran 16:125] ‘Aa’ishah

reported that the Prophet

said: “Allaah is Forbearing and He loves forbearance, and gives reward for forbearance as He does not give for violence, and as He does not reward for anything besides it (forbearance).” [Muslim]

Alhamdulillah our brother has come to the truth of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah, and we ask Allaah :swt: to increase him and his family and indeed all of us in guidance, Aameen.

This thread is now closed.