I think we are becoming deranged

[QuranStudy]

I honestly think we are corrupting Islam.

We should NEVER interwine Islam with our political agenda like Iran does.

Here are some points I was thinking for the past few days:

1.) Why are we even fighting with Israel? The Israelis, though not perfect, are generally fair people and I don’t see any gain from fighting them.

2.) I am 100% sure most members of Hezbollah and Al-Quaeda know extremely little about Islam. in Islam, knowledge is holier than a martyr’s blood. Shouldn’t we devote out time actually worshipping and learning about Islam than fighting a futile and unjustified battle?

3.) It’s relatively easy to root for your fellow Muslim brothers when you’re in a Western society not living in the conditions faced by Israel and Palestine.

4.) NEVER, and I mean NEVER, should we use Islam for our political agenda. What we are doing is not only un-Islamic, it is something out Prophet has never done. If we make treaties with our Jewish brethrens, then we are obliged to commit to it.

5.) It was the JEWS, and not out selfish Arab brothers, who actually provided land for Palestinians, though little. From what I remember, Jordan took parts of Palestine as well.

6.) Let’s be honest. One of the reasons for the hostility is because we are blindly following certain groups due to religious affiliation. Our Prophet treated Jews kindly, and yet were are the naïve Muslims propagating suicide bombings and killing people who could care less of our affairs.

7.) This whole Jihad and martyrdom act is stupid. Our religion is not being attacked by Israelis. Why are we making this a religious agenda?? Live and let live. Follow the Quran and quit being hypocrites!!! Because of our associating Islam with our futile and greedy ambitions, we are not corrupting Islam, we are giving this glorious faith a bad name as well.

8.) A wise Muslim would stay out of other people’s business. Probably Palestine has been taken unjustly, but what does that have to do with Islam? Why is Iran involved with all this? I understand that Israel has a long way to go, but unless we become Islamic and civilized, they will always fear. And fear brings out the worst of humanity in such situations.

If you disagree with anything, please post explaining why.

Salaam.

 

[מדינת ישׂראל]

Great post. Religion should be left out of this conflict.

 

[afriend]

:bravo:

I stressed point 2 a few months ago...ended up getting closed

 

[Helena]

mashalah great post bro.....

totally agree wid ya....

 

[SalafiFemaleJih]

I don't agree with point 2 and I believe Its not good to speak without knowledge.

Its better to look into ourselves. I undertand about hezbollah being shia group, and all that but Al qaeda? ahh now u are going to tell me u are againt Mujahideen.

Only Allah knows their intentions and THEY MIGHT have more knowledge of deen than any1 on here.

-In support of Al qaeda

Wasalmaualaykum wa rahmatullah.

 

[SalafiFemaleJih]

History is ONLY WRITTEN BY THE BLOOD OF SHUHADAH AND WITH THE INK OF SCHOLARS.

'NUff said.

WAsalmaualaykum wa rhamatullah.

 

[QuranStudy]

I don't agree with point 2 and I believe Its not good to speak without knowledge.

Its better to look into ourselves. I undertand about hezbollah being shia group, and all that but Al qaeda? ahh now u are going to tell me u are againt Mujahideen.

There are various rules pertaining to jihad. For instance, ISLAM has to be attacked. As far as I know, Israel has no intention of ending Islam. Also, a Jihadist must take the permission of his parents to even engage in the act, even if the parents are non-Muslim. There are A LOT of rules that mainstream, uneducated Muslims are not aware of. Killing innocent people is a sin, and nobody can deny it.

Only Allah knows their intentions and THEY MIGHT have more knowledge of deen than any1 on here.

Please stop being so closed-minded. Do you see Israelis deliberately bombing mosques and killing Muslims? IRONICALLY, our own Muslim brothers are doing just that!! Al-Quaeda killed their numerous Muslim brother because of sectarian differences, and such a division was forbidden in Islam to begin with.

Quit fooling yourself.

 

[מדינת ישׂראל]

Is breaking up into sects like sunni, shia' against islamic law?

 

[QuranStudy]

Is breaking up into sects like sunni, shia' against islamic law?

Yes, the Quran forbids it.

 

[SalafiFemaleJih]

I'm not going to say a word against Al qaeda.

later,

Salaam

 

[מדינת ישׂראל]

I'm not going to say a word against Al qaeda.

So you agree with the killing of innocent? +o(

 

[Looking4Peace]

I think it is the prophet warned against doing that, I just consider myself muslim when people ask me if im sunni or otherwise i just look at them like they have 3 heads and i think they get my message.

 

[Dahir]

OMG!! Excellent Post!!! BRAVO!!! Best. Post. Yet!

Loaded post!

I just wish people wouldn't come down so hard on me for being pro-Israeli, and realize that guerilla groups who use Islam for agenda aren't always right. :heated:

 

[Skillganon]

There are various rules pertaining to jihad. For instance, ISLAM has to be attacked. As far as I know, Israel has no intention of ending Islam.

Not really. Your statement is not entirely incorrect. You cannot attack a way of life by force. What is being attacked is our fellow muslim, the state founded on bought 3% land" became around 78% fully owned. It has been founded on by a method that goes against Islam itself. Even by their own religion.

Also, a Jihadist must take the permission of his parents to even engage in the act, even if the parents are non-Muslim. There are A LOT of rules that mainstream, uneducated Muslims are not aware of. Killing innocent people is a sin, and nobody can deny it.

They are called muslim who are on Jihad. and nope they don't have to take parents permission but it is preferable to ask in politeness and let them know if it is possible. The loyalty is to Allah (swt) and fighting for the part of the body that is suffering is permissable. They fighting has to be accordance with the Quran and the sunnah importantly and yes you are right people should study the Quran and the sunnah, so they are less likely to stray and do wrong.

Please stop being so closed-minded. Do you see Israelis deliberately bombing mosques and killing Muslims? IRONICALLY, our own Muslim brothers are doing just that!! Al-Quaeda killed their numerous Muslim brother because of sectarian differences, and such a division was forbidden in Islam to begin with.
Quit fooling yourself.

Deliberately bombing mosque, are you suggesting they have undeliberately bombed mosque, and you should really be more well acquinted with history.
Can you stop with the al-qaeda rethoric. and can you stop labelling everyone al-qaeda's you should be careful where you get the source, it may not be true, and you shoukd not apply this to every group who are fighting the oppressors, and their allies even if they are muslim. Read the Quran, it should give you a better point of perception.

 

[QuranStudy]

You cannot attack a way of life by force. What is being attacked is our fellow muslim, the state founded on bought 3% land" became around 78% fully owned. It has been founded on by a method that goes against Islam itself. Even by their own religion.

About 20% of Israel are Muslims. I don’t see the Israelis killing them ruthlessly. This is no war on Islam, get over it. Israel may be an illegal state, but making this an issue as personal as religion (which is indeed not the case) is delusional.

They are called muslim who are on Jihad. and nope they don't have to take parents permission but it is preferable to ask in politeness and let them know if it is possible. The loyalty is to Allah (swt) and fighting for the part of the body that is suffering is permissable. They fighting has to be accordance with the Quran and the sunnah importantly and yes you are right people should study the Quran and the sunnah, so they are less likely to stray and do wrong.

You are the epitome of the type of Muslim I was talking about. Of course you need parent’s permission, even if they’re non-Muslim. Here is a source.

What they are doing is not “jihad” at all. Not only are they killing innocent people, they are also ruining their chance to educate themselves what Islam is really is about.

Deliberately bombing mosque, are you suggesting they have undeliberately bombed mosque, and you should really be more well acquinted with history.

What evidence do you have that Israelis are bombing mosques deliberately? I challenge you to provide me with credible proof.

Can you stop with the al-qaeda rethoric. and can you stop labelling everyone al-qaeda's you should be careful where you get the source, it may not be true, and you shoukd not apply this to every group who are fighting the oppressors, and their allies even if they are muslim. Read the Quran, it should give you a better point of perception.

Where have I labeled everyone belonging to Al-Quaeda? Be careful with the source?? There are pictures and witnesses that unanimously claim that mosques were bombed by fellow Muslims!!

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/16/news/web.0616iraq.php

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,1799231,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13727849/

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0121-09.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/23/iraq.main/index.html

Thank you Al-Quaeda…for nothing.

Also, I do read Quran, and I am in the process of memorizing. I am not going to stand silent support killers because they are Muslims and use their faith to stir up hate. Sorry, I’m on Allah’s side.

 

[Skillganon]

Assalam Bro.

About 20% of Israel are Muslims. I don’t see the Israelis killing them ruthlessly. This is no war on Islam, get over it. Israel may be an illegal state, but making this an issue as personal as religion (which is indeed not the case) is delusional.

Why would the Israeli wan't to kill them ruthlessly, it will be a poor tactic.
See you are contradicting yourself, how could you have a physical war against a religion. Of course their is no war on a Islam perse but their is a war against the adherance of that faith, and anyone who adheres to it, they are sometime called fundementalist, sometime incorrectly called Extremist, even terrorist.
Ever person of muslim, even suffering Palestinian is personal. Who has suffered in the hand of Zionism and still are, maybe you can look back and sit comfortably but I can't. going of the topic , You should not forget Darfur, somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and I think Indonesia (earthquake).

You are the epitome of the type of Muslim I was talking about. Of course you need parent’s permission, even if they’re non-Muslim. Here is a source..

Yes, but if it means disobeying the Quran or the sunnah you don't have to obey them if they say no! If it is required for you to fight and you where able too than it is totally permissable, but if ones mother is not well than you don't have too!

What they are doing is not “jihad” at all. Not only are they killing innocent people, they are also ruining their chance to educate themselves what Islam is really is about.

I am sure they know what is Islam about, but it is how well they can follow.
I agree they should ovoid civilian death (what Islam prohibits).
They should defend themselve.
You should note Israel took millitary(aerial) action first bombing civilian, infractstructure e.t.c Hezbollah responded.
With not so precise missiles, he responded witht he means he has, maybe the american should send apache helicaptors to hezbollah like they been doing for Israel for years that terrorised people of palestine.
Maybe they should of been given precision missiles by U.S.
Note: If you really wan't to complain, than complain to U.S-U.K who does not wan't to call for immediate ceasefire.

What evidence do you have that Israelis are bombing mosques deliberately? I challenge you to provide me with credible proof.

I never said they have. You used the word deliberately. Anyway, if you know how the state of Israel has been founded on it won't be suprising if they have and never been reported in the western media. I am not so worried about a mosque, mosque can be built again, but I am worried about the ummah, falling into passivity. Our deen is not passive (not a cabbage) but one that upholds rigth and forbids wrong. If your fellow brother is been opressed and are being opressed than we have a right to act.

Where have I labeled everyone belonging to Al-Quaeda? Be careful with the source?? There are pictures and witnesses that unanimously claim that mosques were bombed by fellow Muslims!!

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/16/news/web.0616iraq.php

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,1799231,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13727849/

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0121-09.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/23/iraq.main/index.html

Thank you Al-Quaeda…for nothing.

Also, I do read Quran, and I am in the process of memorizing. I am not going to stand silent support killers because they are Muslims and use their faith to stir up hate. Sorry, I’m on Allah’s side.

Let me tell you, to take the safe stand, Their are muslim who take the support of the opressors over their fellow muslim. You should be wary of them. They sell their deen for profit, they wan't a law over than Islam. Does the Quran give any light on the above statement.

Make sure you not only mermorize it but understand it (this is the key) than apply it, this suppose to be a guide for the rest of your life.

I can pm you a better articles in worldy affairs than those. He's an intellectual, a person with knowledge. Who atleast is quite honest. If you wan't to read his material let me know.

P.S I am on Allah(swt) side.

 

[alcurad]

]salaam to all

brother quranstudy , first of all the israelies are attacking both lebanon & palestine ,killing and injuring hundreds of innocent civillans including women and children , hezbollah is merely responding to thar aggression.and by the way, hezbollah includes shias,sunnis,and even christians and all of them are fighting the israelies .
now let me ask you: if we were blindly supporting certain groups due to a religious agenda then what are the christians there fighting for ?
the answer is quite simple : thier country is being invaded and destroyed by the israelies and they are protecting it.religion plays a part in this but the main cause is self defence aswell as political . every country has a right to defend itself.
you are probably only watching western so called mainstream media - though i might be wrong- so i figure you have quite a distorted image of what is happenning right now. the iranians supplied - past tense- hezbollah with arms and funded it some time ago , they prbably still fund it, but isnt the US giving israel billions of dollars on an annual basis , aswell as supply them with advanced weapons & military tech?
the US has Vetoed every resolution passsed in the UN that has any whiff of benifit for the palestinians . now if the Us can get its nose in all affairs regarding the palestinian crisis why cant iran do the same?
also u talked about naïve Muslims propagating suicide bombings , well ,have you heard/seen anything about a suicide bombing occuring anywhere even nearthe area of the conflict?
any form of suicide is clearly prohibited in islam, but no suicide bombing has happend in palestine/lebanon during this recent conflict so why are u bringing the issue up??:?
please take time to read and know all the sides of the story aswell as educate urself more about the conflict and its roots before posting.

salaam

 

[Skillganon]

]salaam to all

brother quranstudy , first of all the israelies are attacking both lebanon & palestine ,killing and injuring hundreds of innocent civillans including women and children , hezbollah is merely responding to thar aggression.and by the way, hezbollah includes shias,sunnis,and even christians and all of them are fighting the israelies .
now let me ask you: if we were blindly supporting certain groups due to a religious agenda then what are the christians there fighting for ?
the answer is quite simple : thier country is being invaded and destroyed by the israelies and they are protecting it.religion plays a part in this but the main cause is self defence aswell as political . every country has a right to defend itself.
you are probably only watching western so called mainstream media - though i might be wrong- so i figure you have quite a distorted image of what is happenning right now. the iranians supplied - past tense- hezbollah with arms and funded it some time ago , they prbably still fund it, but isnt the US giving israel billions of dollars on an annual basis , aswell as supply them with advanced weapons & military tech?
the US has Vetoed every resolution passsed in the UN that has any whiff of benifit for the palestinians . now if the Us can get its nose in all affairs regarding the palestinian crisis why cant iran do the same?
also u talked about naïve Muslims propagating suicide bombings , well ,have you heard/seen anything about a suicide bombing occuring anywhere even nearthe area of the conflict?
any form of suicide is clearly prohibited in islam, but no suicide bombing has happend in palestine/lebanon during this recent conflict so why are u bringing the issue up??:?
please take time to read and know all the sides of the story aswell as educate urself more about the conflict and its roots before posting.

salaam

Jazak Khair, Brother QuranStudy was speaking from his heart and rightly so he was condeming lost of innocent lives, he may not be aware of current situation or history, hence his stance. He is doing a wonderful Job memorising the Quran, and that will serve him well for the rest of his life. We need more brothers like him.

Salaam.

 

[QuranStudy]

Islam perse but their is a war against the adherance of that faith, and anyone who adheres to it, they are sometime called fundementalist, sometime incorrectly called Extremist, even terrorist.

And whose fault is that? When you see Islamic leaders calling for Israel to be wiped out, when mullahs use the Quran to justify hostility, when a Muslim commits suicide bombings in buses and cafes, what would you expect?.

We are the ones that are allowing them to make labels because of our un-Islamic practices.

Ever person of muslim, even suffering Palestinian is personal. Who has suffered in the hand of Zionism and still are, maybe you can look back and sit comfortably but I can't. going of the topic , You should not forget Darfur, somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and I think Indonesia (earthquake).

Most of the blame goes to the Arab leaders. If Palestinians are so personal, why are the Israelis sheltering them, and not their fellow Muslim “brothers?” From what I recall, Jordan took some parts of Palestine as well. Muslims are not helping the Palestinians, they are making things even worse. The Arab leader are just using Islam to achieve their political agenda.

Yes, but if it means disobeying the Quran or the sunnah you don't have to obey them if they say no! If it is required for you to fight and you where able too than it is totally permissable, but if ones mother is not well than you don't have too!

Permission from the parents is mandatory! Parents are much valued in Islam, and there are guidelines to performing Jihad, which are not followed at all by the “jihadists.” It’s plain murder. The real Jihad was during the Crusades and Saladin’s time. Today’s jihad is terrorism.

I am sure they know what is Islam about, but it is how well they can follow.
I agree they should ovoid civilian death (what Islam prohibits).
They should defend themselve.

……yet they commit suicide bombs in public areas. (ex. 9/11).

You should note Israel took millitary(aerial) action first bombing civilian, infractstructure e.t.c Hezbollah responded.
With not so precise missiles, he responded witht he means he has, maybe the american should send apache helicaptors to hezbollah like they been doing for Israel for years that terrorised people of palestine.

I have previously stated that I am no sympathizer for Israel. But my point is that twisting the teachings of Islam to justify sinful acts is inexcusable. Islam has no place in the affairs of Hezbollah or Al-Quaeda. A Muslim would mind his business, or would commit to peace treaties with Israel.

Maybe they should of been given precision missiles by U.S.
Note: If you really wan't to complain, than complain to U.S-U.K who does not wan't to call for immediate ceasefire.

My problem is using Islam as a tool to fight and commit terrorism. And the whole thing was started by Hezbollah, so don’t forget that. The Israeli massacres are inexcusable, but we need to take our share of the blame.

If your fellow brother is been opressed and are being opressed than we have a right to act.

My fellow Muslim brothers are being oppressed in Muslim countries. Muslims in Israel and America are MUCH better off. Then again, being from “London,” you wouldn’t quite understand while enjoying freedom and equality.

Their are muslim who take the support of the opressors over their fellow muslim. You should be wary of them. They sell their deen for profit, they wan't a law over than Islam. Does the Quran give any light on the above statement.

1.) Explain to me how Israel and America/Britain is oppressive.
2.) Compare the situation in Israel to those of its neighbors.
3.) Quit it with your baseless theories. Prove me they are traitors.
4.) Muslims in Israel are quite content
5.) For more information, consult out brother abdmez in this forum, straight from Jerusalem.

Make sure you not only mermorize it but understand it (this is the key) than apply it, this suppose to be a guide for the rest of your life.

I do not need any advice from you pertaining to the Quran. I do understand. I am not blinded with hate. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

 

[QuranStudy]

Do we need to compare how the Muslims in Saudi Arabia treat Jews vs. how the Jews in Israel treat Muslims?

I see you people take your freedoms and benefits living in Western nations for granted.