If Iran/Arabs conquered Israel?

[Fishman]

Where on Earth are you getting this 'they lost' idea from?. The whole world knows the US and allies have been utterly humilated by the Taliban. They are sending 30,000 more troops to save face (shifting them from Iraq of all places!) after eight odd years of trying to dismantle the Taliban regime and have not succeeded yet.

They haven't won the war Fishman - they are loosing it badly - so bad in fact they recently wanted to negotiate a deal with their enemy, the Taliban.

They are fighting a war they cannot win. Even the military commanders have gone on record saying this.

1. Just because the Americans are losing doesn't mean the Taliban are winning.

2. Perhaps my statement should be rephrased: if the Taliban had a tank or a jet they would fare even worse than they have.

Due to the sheer effort and persistency alone the Taliban have won.

I don't dispute this. A guerilla war is much harder to conduct than a conventional one IMHO.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

for a 'Jewish state' that has got to be a huge disadvantage.. after all were it not for deluded religious reasons, what are those Ashkenazis doing there? less than 5% of Israel is actually Arabic or Sephardi in origin!

Zionism was not a religious movement.
Almost half of all Israelis originated in the Arab word, 10 % are Sephardim.

 

[جوري]

Zionism was not a religious movement.
Almost half of all Israelis originated in the Arab word, 10 % are Sephardim.

No, you are misinformed as usual! less than 5% are Arabs in origin... and indeed by what justifications do zionists have a right to the land of canaan?


the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

hope that helps you!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

No, you are misinformed as usual! less than 5% are Arabs in origin... and indeed by what justifications do zionists have a right to the land of canaan?


the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

hope that helps you!

I thought you meant Arab origin as migrating to Israel from Arab countries.
MAy I ask why you mentioned the sephardim in your original post?

 

[جوري]

I thought you meant Arab origin as migrating to Israel from Arab countries.
MAy I ask why you mentioned the sephardim in your original post?

because those of them 'north African' in origin are in the least remotely close to the original tribes.. not the case of Eureopeans jews!
in other words they have no right to their colonial state.. none whatsoever!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

because those of them 'north African' in origin are in the least remotely close to the original tribes.. not the case of Eureopeans jews!
in other words they have no right to their colonial state.. none whatsoever!

Sephardi Jews are of Mediterranean , mostly Iberian origin.

 

[Woodrow]

Sephardi Jews are of Mediterranean , mostly Iberian origin.

If memory serve me correctly, The North African Nations are on the Mediterranean. I believe most of the Iberian Jews came from Morocco originally. Last time I was in North Africa I found many Jews living in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and even Egypt.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

If memory serve me correctly, The North African Nations are on the Mediterranean.

I know, I should have said European part of the Mediterranean.

 

[جوري]

If memory serve me correctly, The North African Nations are on the Mediterranean.

Whatisthepoint should indeed read ALL I write thoroughly.. and those terms that are somewhat illusive should be looked up in the dictionary!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

If memory serve me correctly, The North African Nations are on the Mediterranean. I believe most of the Iberian Jews came from Morocco originally. Last time I was in North Africa I found many Jews living in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and even Egypt.

I think it's the other way around, they were expelled from Spain along with Muslims and settled in North Africa.

 

[Woodrow]

I think it's the other way around, they were expelled from Spain along with Muslims and settled in North Africa.

And the Jews in Spain originally came from where?

The link between Jews and Tarshish is clear. One might speculate that commerce conducted by Jewish emissaries, merchants, craftsmen, or other tradesmen among the Semitic Tyrean Phoenicians might have brought them to Tarshish. Although the notion of Tarshish as Spain is merely based on suggestive material, it leaves open the possibility of a very early, although perhaps limited, Jewish presence in the Iberian Peninsula.

More substantial evidence of Jews in Spain comes from the Roman era. Although the spread of the Jews into Europe is most commonly associated with the Diaspora, which ensued from the Roman conquest of Judea, emigration from Erets Israel into the greater Roman Mediterranean area antedated the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans under Titus. In his Facta et dicta memorabilia, Valerius Maximus makes reference to Jews and Chaldaeans being expelled from Rome in 139 BCE for their "corrupting" influences.[1]

Hispania came under Roman control with the fall of Carthage after the Second Punic War (218-202 BCE). Exactly how soon after this time Jews made their way onto the scene is a matter of speculation. It is within the realm of possibility that they went there under the Romans as free men to take advantage of its rich resources. These early arrivals would have been joined by those who had been enslaved by the Romans under Vespasian and Titus, and dispersed to the extreme west during the period of the Jewish-Roman War, and especially after the defeat of Judea in 70, Graetz places the number carried off to Spain at 80,000.Subsequent immigrations came into the area along both the northern African and southern European sides of the Mediterranean.

Among the earliest records which may refer specifically to Jews in Spain during the Roman period is Paul's Letter to the Romans. Many have taken Paul's intention to go to Spain to minister the gospel (15.24, 28) to indicate the presence of Jewish communities there, as has Herod's banishment to Spain by Caesar in 39 (Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, 2.9.6).[2]

From a slightly later period, Midrash Rabbah, Leviticus 29.2 makes reference to the return of the Diaspora from Spain by 165. Perhaps the most substantial of early references are the several decrees of the Council of Elvira, convened in the early fourth century, which address proper Christian behavior with regard to the Jews of Spain, notably forbidding marriage between Jews and Christians.[3]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain

 

[nocturne]

You guys are forgetting about U.S.A. They would gladly use the Nuclear missile they have had aimed at Iran for a long time, Iran would have no where to go back to.

I very much doubt in this modern times, any large-scale occupation will take place without International Co-operation unless of course it is U.S.A

 

[Izyan]

If Israel was defeated then Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria would all stake claim of the area and the fighting would continue

 

[Q8sobieski]

This is my first post. It is an interesting discussion.

If Israel was defeated then Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria would all stake claim of the area and the fighting would continue

Those four states above do all hold claims to various parts of Israel. What are the chances also that Hamas and Fatah will not then fight it out for a generation or two. I am quite sure that whatever replaces a collapsed Jewish state will be many times worse than what is there now.

 

[aadil77]

This is my first post. It is an interesting discussion.



Those four states above do all hold claims to various parts of Israel. What are the chances also that Hamas and Fatah will not then fight it out for a generation or two. I am quite sure that whatever replaces a collapsed Jewish state will be many times worse than what is there now.

I doubt there'll be conflict between muslims claiming the land, the palestinians would have suffered enough, hence them deserving to establish their own state. Can't be worse than whats going on in Gaza, can it?

 

[Izyan]

I doubt there'll be conflict between muslims claiming the land, the palestinians would have suffered enough, hence them deserving to establish their own state. Can't be worse than whats going on in Gaza, can it?

Is that's why Lebanon treat palestinians as second class citizens? Out of compasion for their suffering?

 

[Woodrow]

I doubt there'll be conflict between muslims claiming the land, the palestinians would have suffered enough, hence them deserving to establish their own state. Can't be worse than whats going on in Gaza, can it?

I wish that were true. In spite of all of the warnings we have had about nationalism, nationalism has raised it's ugly head very often. The worse wars are those that pitted Muslim against Muslim and yet those continue even today.

Just for openers, Darfur Arab Muslim versus Sudanese Muslim.

In recent years the long history of conflict between Iran and Iraq.

Nationalism is a vicious Shaitan that our brothers are too easily tempted by.

 

[Q8sobieski]

I doubt there'll be conflict between muslims claiming the land, the palestinians would have suffered enough, hence them deserving to establish their own state. Can't be worse than whats going on in Gaza, can it?

What about all of the factories, farms, supplies, diamonds, and homes that the Jews will leave behind? Will Suni, shia, Alawi, Hamas, Fatah, Egyptian, Jordanian, and Israeli-citizenship holding Arab all just decide to share evenly?

 

[nocturnal]

If Israel was defeated then Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria would all stake claim of the area and the fighting would continue

Im not too sure about that. There probably would be claims to territory, but i think the overwhelming public opinion in the Arab world is very specifically and ardently in favour of Palestinian emancipation. Not regional Arab hegemony and expansionism.

If anything, they would vie for the popularity stakes in terms of who would offer the most assistance to the Palestinians in consolidating any new potential state. It's been 60 years since the Nakhba. If Israel were to capitulate, i don't think anyone would be keen on seeing another implosion of Arab and Muslim solidarity.

 

[aadil77]

What about all of the factories, farms, supplies, diamonds, and homes that the Jews will leave behind? Will Suni, shia, Alawi, Hamas, Fatah, Egyptian, Jordanian, and Israeli-citizenship holding Arab all just decide to share evenly?

spoils of war matey