If we are all theists, why are we following secular laws??

[KAding]

This makes no sense. Are secular laws bringing us under good light under God?? These laws make no
sense. If people followed their own religion, then there would ne no needs of seperation between "church
as state." The world should be like the Middle Ages, where countries were somewhat divided by religion. A coherent community based on a religion would ensure peace and unity. There should be a Christian
Europe, a Jewish Untited States, Muslim Middle East and some SE Asia, a Hindu India. All atheists can move to China and North Korea. The "clash of civilizations" will lead to the world's demise, as brilliantly predicted by Samuel Huntington. Utopia is impoosible, but we can get one step closer to it via seperation of nations in terms of homogeneous Empires based on religion. Imn this way, all countries can impose their laws based on their holy scripture. Remember, God is greater.

Ehm. Wouldn't this imply massive religious cleansing in most othe world? I mean, we'd have to kick out tens of millions of Muslims out of Europe.

No thanks, it sounds like a humanitarian disaster. I'd rather we keep the state secular and that each individual or religious group look after its own salvation. It kinda sucks for Muslims I suppose, since Islam is so political, but for most other religions there really isn't a problem. Maybe only Muslims should segregate themselves from the rest of the world. Then you can build a big wall around the Muslim world to protect you from all these immoral influences!

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The world should be like the Middle Ages, where countries were somewhat divided by religion.

You seek a return to the Middle Ages? Good luck finding support for that idea...

There should be a Christian
Europe, a Jewish Untited States, Muslim Middle East and some SE Asia, a Hindu India. All atheists can move to China and North Korea. The "clash of civilizations" will lead to the world's demise, as brilliantly predicted by Samuel Huntington.

Your programme of separation is a sure way to lead to even more clashes of civilisations than the single one we are (arguably) beginning to see today. Intolerance, isolationism and mutual resentment would be the inevitable result. It's only by mixing and living together that we can begin to understand each other.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

How did it work in the early Islam-History?

In the Early days the concept of nations was quite a bit different than it is today. For much of the world there still were city-states, in which each city was essentialy an independent country. Empires were more for taxation and not so much for ideology. Treaties were estableshed seperatly between cities.

It was more the rule than for each city to be under it's own religous rule.

Plus the worlds population was very much smaller than it is today, there was no rapid transportation or rapid communication either. Our current division of the world into countries is much different than what it had been in the past.

In the past it was possible for a country to remain under religious law as typicaly all people in a country were of the same religion. Trade between counties was basically conducted in trade centers which were sort of like free trade zones under no particular countries rule.

 

[QuranStudy]

Ehm. Wouldn't this imply massive religious cleansing in most othe world? I mean, we'd have to kick out tens of millions of Muslims out of Europe.

It's hypothetical. Never going to happen for that very reason (mass religious cleansing).

No thanks, it sounds like a humanitarian disaster. I'd rather we keep the state secular and that each individual or religious group look after its own salvation.

Humanitarian disaster?? The clash of civilizations is an humanitarian disaster! If you like a secular government, you should live in China!

It kinda sucks for Muslims I suppose, since Islam is so political, but for most other religions there really isn't a problem. Maybe only Muslims should segregate themselves from the rest of the world. Then you can build a big wall around the Muslim world to protect you from all these immoral influences!

Islam is as political as any other religion/atheism. So not only are Muslims screwed in certain countries, non-Muslims are screwed in Muslim countries.

 

[QuranStudy]

Your programme of separation is a sure way to lead to even more clashes of civilisations than the single one we are (arguably) beginning to see today.

Oh? And how is that??

Intolerance, isolationism and mutual resentment would be the inevitable result.

I disagree with the speculation. Quite the opposite would occur.

It's only by mixing and living together that we can begin to understand each other.

Yeah, "understanding each other" is another way of saying "divide and conquer."

 

[Keltoi]

"Understanding" each other has nothing to do with divide and conquer, it is about finding a way to live together without butchering each other. Seems a perfectly reasonable goal to me. Secular society allows this to happen without infringing on the right of people to worship as they see fit. Seems to me that the most important element of most if not all religions is to live in peace. If one views religion as their own personal club, where you must hide yourself from other views and force others to believe as you do to find peace...well, that seems to be a human psychosis, and has nothing to do with a loving God.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

The world should be like the Middle Ages

Then smash your computer. Smash your airconditioning. And if we were in the Middle Ages, America, Israel and others should be allowed to conquer whatever they want right? Since in the Middle Ages it was completly acceptable to conquerer anothers land because a king feels like it.

 

[QuranStudy]

"Understanding" each other has nothing to do with divide and conquer, it is about finding a way to live together without butchering each other. Seems a perfectly reasonable goal to me.

No, it's not reasonable. War is part of world affairs. Wars are always inevitable.

Secular society allows this to happen without infringing on the right of people to worship as they see fit.

Not necessarilly. Look at America in the 1920-1930s. The rights of women an African Americans were suppressed, despite a secular government. Many secular countries, like China, Russia, Cuba, Israel are strong violators of humans rights.

Seems to me that the most important element of most if not all religions is to live in peace. If one views religion as their own personal club, where you must hide yourself from other views and force others to believe as you do to find peace...well, that seems to be a human psychosis, and has nothing to do with a loving God.

I agree. Human errors lead to hostility.

Then smash your computer. Smash your airconditioning.

Dude, what id your IQ?? Can't you read my posts in context without making stupid remarks. The world should be like the Middle Ages in terms of DEMOGRAPHICS and society, not technology.

nd if we were in the Middle Ages, America, Israel and others should be allowed to conquer whatever they want right? Since in the Middle Ages it was completly acceptable to conquerer anothers land because a king feels like it.

Read my above comment to see why your reasoning is misleading. In the Middle Ages, there was more or less a Christian Europe, a Muslim ME and North Africa, a Hindu India, a Buddhist Japan. (Let's not also forget there was no such thing as Israel in the ME )

 

[therebbe]

more or less a Christian Europe, a Muslim ME and North Africa, a Hindu India, a Buddhist Japan.

And they were all conquering eachother for example Muslims invading Spain, Chrsitians invading Holy Land, ect.

Let's not also forget there was no such thing as Israel in the ME

Correct. Israel was around much earlier then the creation of "Christianity" or "Islam".

 

[Muezzin]

Heh, for a minute there I thought you meant 'the world should be like the Middle Ages' in the sense that Muslims are at the forefront of technological and mathematical advance. It would be nice to have another 'Islamic Renaissance'.

But I'd have to disagree with the whole splitting up into separate religious kingdoms thing, as it would lead to even more bloodshed, caused by the division along religious lines.

 

[Skillganon]

Warning Warning. THis is seriousely going off-topic.

Can we return to the OP of the thread as quick as possible.

 

[Woodrow]

This thread has gone way off topic.

:threadclo