If were not supposed to pay for other peoples sin's why are we paying for Adam's?

[observer]

The first person sounds like Saddam Husain.
The second person sounds like an annoying do-gooder. "judgment is mine" said the Lord. God doesn't like being ignored and not believed in and if the person was truly good they would be a believer.

So all non-muslims must be bad then according to that logic?

 

[Karl]

So all non-muslims must be bad then according to that logic?

Not quite, God is merciful but you have to believe in God for Him to give you paradise. If you don't believe in God you have chosen Hell.
Let me simplify this, let's say a man by his wits and strengths and by the grace of God becomes a great king, benevolent and wise. And says to his subjects "be loyal to me and I will give you land and a pleasant life" But some of his subjects are Marxists and reject him and go off into desolation and poverty because of their stubborn political ideas they condemn themselves to misery.

 

[Ahmad H]

So all non-muslims must be bad then according to that logic?

Not quite, God is merciful but you have to believe in God for Him to give you paradise. If you don't believe in God you have chosen Hell.
Let me simplify this, let's say a man by his wits and strengths and by the grace of God becomes a great king, benevolent and wise. And says to his subjects "be loyal to me and I will give you land and a pleasant life" But some of his subjects are Marxists and reject him and go off into desolation and poverty because of their stubborn political ideas they condemn themselves to misery.

This concept is simpler and more comprehensive than the example you gave. Everyone does good deeds in one form or another, believer or non-believer. This much is true. People do so in varying degrees. However, in the sight of Allah, His attribute of Rahim (Mercy) is only extended to those who believe in Him, thus, the good deeds of those who believe in Him are accepted by Him, but those who do not believe in Allah and do good deeds, their deeds are not recorded as good, because they not do them for the sake of Allah.

Our lower self, the animal self, cannot be broken away from, unless we do good deeds for Allah's pleasure. This is because all people do good deeds even if they don't believe in Allah. Also, animals have a sense for goodness as well. They take care of their young, they support each other in groups and protect one another, they have some sense of decency, albeit in other ways besides what humans have. Thus, humans doing good just for the sake of it, is not good in itself. To break away from the lower self (nafs), the animal-like self, is to do good deeds for Allah alone.

Islam establishes that the only way to break away from our lower animal passions, and doing things merely for the sake of it, is to do them for a higher purpose. What higher purpose can we have to do anything except to do them for the sake of the Highest Being in all existence? If we do things for His sake, and not for ourselves only and mere self-gratification, then we have achieved a much higher state of good than being just at the animal level, doing good merely because it feels right.

Put it this way, all of humanity does not agree on what is good. But if we follow the laws Allah revealed to us, for which He knows best what humans should do and act like, then we will all achieve one doctrine of good for the highest purpose, and humanity will have greater peace. Doing things merely because we feel good about them isn't a higher purpose, because everyone feels different about everything. Everyone should know for a fact what is good, and act according to it because they must do so for the good of all humanity, as well as for the sake of the Highest Being.

Logically, as a believer, we are convinced there is a Higher Being. If we do things for humanity and not for this Highest Being, then we are neglecting our duty as being the product of His work. It is just like disobeying your parents when they know what is right for you in something, and rejecting them on the basis that you feel something is right, while your parents are clearly 100% right on the issue. The All-Knowing Being knows everything, and thus what is best for humanity. Thus, doing what He says is absolutely necessary, and it is the most logical thing to do.

This is the concept of goodness in Islam, and the logical reasoning behind following the laws which Allah revealed.

If I failed to make things clear here, let me know.

 

[Abz2000]

Assalamu'alaikum wr wb,
It wasn't "just because of Adam's sin", Allah had planned the test of the extra-intelligent being (into whom he breathed of His own spirit with the ability to think, decide and innovate for itself - "tell me the names of these") long before put Adam on earth (innee jaaa'ilun fil ardi khaleefah) to take the responsibilities delegated to him by Allah and implement the rules of Allah over all creation as a capable agent.
This was a different species, a species able to learn how to innovate and fly, stay under water for years, and communicate with the other side of the planet in seconds).
The test of this intelligence is there - not just because of Adam, adam occupies the first part of this accumulative test.
Each soul is held in pledge for is own deeds and the situation it finds itself in means that not committing faults is impossible. How it steers through is taken into account in spite of the ultimate result of his action, and it is the grace of Allah that delivers him, not his deeds. (Man always need a bailout).
Even the prophet Muhammad pbuh is reported to have told us that not even he will be able to enter paradise wit his deeds, only the bounty and grace of Allah will deliver him (pbuh).
And that if we didn't make mistakes and repent, Allah would has changed us for those imperfect people who did, for Allah loves "attawwabeen".

If you know anyone who spends loads of amounts of his life in prison, he'd pobabl tell you that those who keep saying "I'm innocent, it's not fair" not only don't get anywhere, but even get bullied" whereas the wise one puts his head down, starts praying and learning, doing what he can and gains as much at he can. He accepts the reality of his city til ant does aha he can to alleviate the handicaps.

This world is a prison, we can think positive or moan, and moaning to other prisoners doesn't help much.
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BUSH: I believe the phrase burdens of the office is overstated. You know, it's kind of like, why me? Oh, the burdens, you know. Why did the financial collapse have to happen on my watch? It's just pathetic isn't it - self pity. And I don't believe President-elect Obama will be full of self pity.



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We just have to do our best and BEG Allah for forgiveness, strength and assistance,
we can leave this prison happily. Whereas if we think we're self sufficient and that we can just become friends of Shaytaan and forget who we are, become ungrateful kaafirs, the loss is our own because the balance will tip in favour of the believers.

We need to accept that the temptations are a reality, someimes falling into them is a reality, ant that trusting in Allah and not leaving His party is also a reality, in spite of our perceived despair. so let's accept that reality and work to make that reality easier to handle, because kufr will just debase us to helpless animals at the mercy of those animals physically stronger than us.

The Noble Qur'an: An-Nisa 4:119
...And whoever takes Shaitân (Satan) as a Walî (protector or helper) instead of Allâh, has surely suffered a manifest loss.


:

The Noble Qur'an: Ash-Shura 42:9
Or have they taken (for worship) Auliyâ' (guardians, supporters, helpers, protectors, etc.) besides Him? But Allâh, He Alone is the Walî (Protector, etc.). And it is He Who gives life to the dead, and He is Able to do all things.

This is how the prophets accepted it:

5. "Our Lord! Make us not a trial for the disbelievers, and forgive us, Our Lord! Verily, You, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."

Certainly, there has been in them an excellent example for you to follow, for those who look forward to (the Meeting with) Allâh (for the reward from Him) and the Last Day. And whosoever turn away, then verily, Allâh is Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all Praise.
Quran 60:5-6

If in doubts:


Indeed, Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds to gardens beneath which rivers flow. Indeed, Allah does what He intends.
22:15


Whoever should think that Allah will not support [Prophet Muhammad] in this world and the Hereafter - let him extend a rope to the ceiling, then cut off [his breath], and let him see: will his effort remove that which enrages [him]?

 

[observer]

Everyone does good deeds in one form or another, believer or non-believer. This much is true. People do so in varying degrees. However, in the sight of Allah, His attribute of Rahim (Mercy) is only extended to those who believe in Him, thus, the good deeds of those who believe in Him are accepted by Him, but those who do not believe in Allah and do good deeds, their deeds are not recorded as good, because they not do them for the sake of Allah

Well, then it would seem to me that the good deeds of a non-believer are better. I mean, you as a muslim are doing good things because you think that god is taking note and that you will get into paradise for doing them. Whenever I do a good deed, I do it for its own sake - I get no future benefit or reward in my mind.

So, muslims then are doing good deeds because they want to get into heaven - they get a reward for doing good things. Is doing a good deed to get a reward not less altruistic than a good deed with no hope of a reward?

If I told you I'd give you 10 dollars to help someone and you did the deed because of the money, is that not a worse reason than someone who just helped the person because they felt that it was the right thing to do?

 

[ardianto]

So, muslims then are doing good deeds because they want to get into heaven - they get a reward for doing good things. Is doing a good deed to get a reward not less altruistic than a good deed with no hope of a reward?

If I told you I'd give you 10 dollars to help someone and you did the deed because of the money, is that not a worse reason than someone who just helped the person because they felt that it was the right thing to do?

My Islamic teacher said that if I helped the needy just because I expect reward, probably I would not get anything because my intention was not sincere. But if I helped the the needy because I feel it's my duty, In Shaa Allah, I would get reward although I didn't expect it.

 

[Ahmad H]

So, muslims then are doing good deeds because they want to get into heaven - they get a reward for doing good things. Is doing a good deed to get a reward not less altruistic than a good deed with no hope of a reward?

The reward of Heaven is the closeness to God. The other pleasures are secondary. Besides, my point as to demonstrate that not very many people do good deeds for the sake of it. Deep down, they are done for self-gratification. They are never truly done for just the sake of it by Atheists. So the good deeds done by a Muslim will always be better than the deed of an Atheist.

Think of it this way, if one person thinks helping someone is good, another will think taking from them is good, as long as they get away with it. In both cases, a person will feel that self-gratification. Granted, the latter feels gratification through obtaining something, which may not be considered equal. Yet, both types of people exist and they are merely doing what they do for their own sake. Just because you don't want a reward from God, doesn't mean you reward yourself by liking what you did for others, even if you didn't expect reward from them.

To be quite honest, my understanding here stems more from believing that no one does anything unless they feel good about it. Thus, nothing good is ever done just because you consider it good, it is because you feel good about it. Is that not true? That in itself is a reward. But the true reward is with Allah. Those may be good deeds in themselves,I am not denying that at all, but those deeds are wasted because they are not counted with God. So then when you die, those deeds are not counted for you to keep you protected from the Fires of Hell.

The whole point of Islam is to get everyone to agree on what is right, and not determine it ourselves. People never all agree on what is right or wrong. This is why good deeds for the sake of it cannot help humanity prosper in this world, and definitely do not make them prosper in the Hereafter. Reward comes in many forms, so this idea that people of religion doing good deeds does not amount to as much good as Atheists who do good just for the sake of it is total rubbish.

 

[Abz2000]

Of course you should feel good about doing good,
I'm quite certain you shouldn't feel bad about it,
Everyone has to feel good,
Should they spend their "feel good" hormones for just when they're gratifying their body?
Or for when they do something bad maybe………

........God knows, but I think some of it should be saved for when you do good stuff Innit???
then maybe you'll do in again.

And of course you may do it just for the sake of it or because you feel the duty,
because it can become a second nature, you don't think twice or try to think hard for an intention.
You know it pleases Allah anyway and that's more than enough of an intention.
You even get rewarded for conjugal relations with your spouse, because you would have been punished if you did the wrong person.

If you're told you're going to get something good, you're obviously going to want it, and if you didn't want it, you'd be like an ungrateful kaafir see?


And of course yes, you can do it expecting a reward, even Allah give us deals in the Quran, also offers and bonuses, if we weren't allowed to want a reward, we wouldn't have been offered all these treats.

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
Quran 9:111

It's an actual transaction,
Yet, we can't expect guaranteed paradise for anything else, because the deeds are not enough.
And the offer of guaranteed paradise even comes with 70 free tickets for bust-a$s but believing family and friends
(Offer doesn't extend to disbelievers though).

But it's better they just do it for the sake of Allah's good pleasure and don't make demands and just hope for loads of grace (at an hour of wrath).


76:8
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Yusuf Ali
And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-
76:9
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Yusuf Ali
(Saying),"We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.
76:10
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Yusuf Ali
"We only fear a Day of distressful Wrath from the side of our Lord."
76:11
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Yusuf Ali
But Allah will deliver them from the evil of that Day, and will shed over them a Light of Beauty and (blissful) Joy.



Bottom line, try to do good anyways, and don't let the devil confuse you with loads of red tape,

With The kaafirs and everyone else, they'll be asked to seek the reward of the god they worshipped, and their gods will be put in front of them, and Allah will reward His servants who served Him.
how's that unfair?

 

[Karl]

Good and bad are also very subjective. People may think they do good but what they are doing could be totally evil. Or they use a façade of goodness and righteousness for an evil agenda. I tend to measure a persons goodness by their wealth. If they are very rich they must have a hard heart not to share it with the less fortunate. The more money they covet the more evil they are. As the plutocratic elite they have become evil absolute, manipulating the world for their benefit alone, no matter how horrendous the consequences for the rest of us are.

 

[M.I.A.]

Salam,
I have been told that Allah does not punish others for other people's sins. Well I have a question, Adam AS sinned by eating the forbidden Apple. He was sent to Earth as punishment but why am I here on Earth.

How is it fair that everyone should pay by living on Earth for Adam's sin. And also please don't say Allah put us here because Shaytaan challenged him by saying he would make us go astray, Shaytaan did a sin but why should I be punished for his sin. Why should I have all these temptations.

Also I do believe in Islam and I AM NOT TRYING TO CHALLENGE ISLAM but I honestly can't understand this and need some help. I'm finding it hard to cope with so many temptations and I don't think its fair.

Also if Allah is the most merciful why will he punish kufar in hell for the rest of their lives just because the only Islam they knew was the one they saw on Fox News.

Please help me!

I have been told that Allah does not punish others for other people's sins. Well I have a question, Adam AS sinned by eating the forbidden Apple. He was sent to Earth as punishment but why am I here on Earth.

thats hilarious, i cant even give an answer to that.

i dont know why you were born on earth rather than just waking up in heaven.

but stay away from apples.

but if you already want apples then its only going to get worse apparently.


also there are like 7 billion people in the world, how selfish of you.

its just one of those things im afraid,

How is it fair that everyone should pay by living on Earth for Adam's sin. And also please don't say Allah put us here because Shaytaan challenged him by saying he would make us go astray, Shaytaan did a sin but why should I be punished for his sin. Why should I have all these temptations.

lol at having the obvious answer and yet blaming the fall guy..

i mean you probably never would have existed if it were not for adam pbuh.

 

[Nur Student]

If I told you I'd give you 10 dollars to help someone and you did the deed because of the money, is that not a worse reason than someone who just helped the person because they felt that it was the right thing to do?

Where does the feeling of 'doing good' come from? What makes people feel doing the right thing?

In your example, you said that the person helped only because he felt it was the right thing to do? How and why feeling so? What is the source?

 

[Ohmz]

Salam,I have been told that Allah does not punish others for other people's sins. Well I have a question, Adam AS sinned by eating the forbidden Apple. He was sent to Earth as punishment but why am I here on Earth.How is it fair that everyone should pay by living on Earth for Adam's sin. And also please don't say Allah put us here because Shaytaan challenged him by saying he would make us go astray, Shaytaan did a sin but why should I be punished for his sin. Why should I have all these temptations.Also I do believe in Islam and I AM NOT TRYING TO CHALLENGE ISLAM but I honestly can't understand this and need some help. I'm finding it hard to cope with so many temptations and I don't think its fair.Also if Allah is the most merciful why will he punish kufar in hell for the rest of their lives just because the only Islam they knew was the one they saw on Fox News.Please help me!

Salaam bro. It’s true, Islam teaches that God does not punish a person for the sins of another. Sounds like you’re quite familiar with the Adam & Eve’s story. When speaking about this subject, it’s important to understand who sinned - Iblis sinned by disobeying God’s command to bow down to Adam, and Adam & Eve sinned by eating the forbidden fruit. When God asked why Iblis did not bow down, Iblis replied in arrogance, and was cast out of Paradise and was destined for the Fire. During that moment, Iblis claimed that God put him in error, but asked God to postpone his punishment, which God agreed to. Satan did not get punished in full for his sin, God is postponing the punishment for his sin til the day of Resurrection – just like Satan requested. Satan then vowed to God that he’d lead mankind astray.When Adam & Eve were deceived by Satan, they didn’t try to excuse their sin by claiming Satan deceived them. 7:23, Adam & Eve claimed that they wronged themselves, and stated the importance of God’s forgiveness and guidance to them. 20:121-122 tells us that God was forgiving towards Adam & Eve, and gave them guidance. So we know Iblis’s sin will be with him till the day of Judgement, but Adam & Eve’s sin was forgiven, instead of being sent to Hell, they were placed on Earth.There are plenty of things to enjoy on Earth, but as you pointed out there are also many hardships. It’s important to realise that Earth is not a punishment for us, but it is a mercy from God and a means to enter Paradise. If you think about it, this story is very beautiful actually – God must have planned all of this to happen. God must have known what Satan would do, and yet he placed the Forbidden Tree in heaven anyway, and he also then granted Satan’s request to postpone his Judgement, and lets Satan try to lead us all astray – which only makes sense if this world is a test of faith. If in God’s eyes, everyone is worthy of punishment for Adam’s sin, why are we being tested instead of punished?I think it’s safe to say that God’s plans were to create many humans, and not just Adam & Eve. God wished to grant us all true free will as well, God did not want to limit/force our choices. God intended for Adam & Eve to be a couple, and to reproduce – and God did not want to force their children into worshipping God. Out of free will, some people would have inevitably chosen to disobey God – and God did not want these people to reside in Paradise, so a means to separate the good from the bad would logically be needed, unless God wished to force everyone to be Muslims (which he did not). This world isn’t a punishment, it’s a test of faith, and a means for us to learn about ourselves, eachother, and our Creator.Adam & Eve in Paradise, God gave them quite a lot of knowledge, EG they knew the names of the Angels when they were created. We don’t know the full extent of the knowledge God granted them, but we can see that they were still unaware of certain things (EG their private parts, shame etc). Also, in Paradise Adam & Eve didn’t follow Islam as define by the Quran, they had a very small and simple set of rules compared to those found in the Quran. We can see that they began to learn of more things after they ate the forbidden fruit, and God forgave them, and provided them guidance so they could learn more and become more aware of things. God also provided them and their children a temporary place to live whilst they learn and familiarise themselves with the complete set of rules God intended for mankind to follow (Quran), and not a simple/specialised set of rules (IE don’t eat the fruit). For Muslims today, we know the Quran is God’s complete and final religion – so it’s only logical for us to believe that God didn’t intend for Adam & Eve to live in their original pre-sin state for eternity, with the same laws that they had at that time.Adam & Eve were not really punished for disobeying God, their situation changed, and instead of sending them to the hellfire - God provided them with a safe shelter for them to come to terms with the new knowledge that God’s plans gave to them when they ate the fruit (IE shame, repentance). God also continued to gradually supply mankind with guidance, until of course God’s complete guidance was revealed. Adam’s descendants aren’t being punished for Adam’s sin – Adam himself wasn’t even truly punished for the sin, but was forgiven. We are being tested not punished. Adam & Eve were given a chance to re-enter Paradise – this time with a massive family, and with much more knowledge than they had before they committed their 1st sin, and in a more aware state than they were in before the 1st sin. This world is a mercy in the form of a test.If I’ve said anything that sounds incorrect, please point it out.