If you love Islam so much wouldn’t you be happier living in a Muslim country.

[Makky]

So what's it like - are you enjoy prosperity, security and freedom?

Prosperity , YESSS

Security , Yesss i can go anywhere 24/7

Freedom , In the west you have more freedom to criticise the president. this is the main difference in the freedom Issue.

 

[Thinker]

Clearely you have a reading impediment?.. I have just told you I was born in east Africa, spent a chunk of my life in north Africa..

You are not debate worthy.. as the simple ethics of debate escape you!

Hmmm - why do you suggest that I am not qualified to debate Africa with you?

I have spent a large part of my life in Africa albeit all of that on or south of the equator but I believe/suggest that qualifies me to debate the reasons why Africa is a mess.

Ethics of debate - what does that mean?

 

[Thinker]

Prosperity , YESSS

Security , Yesss i can go anywhere 24/7

Freedom , In the west you have more freedom to criticise the president. this is the main difference in the freedom Issue.

prosperity - relative;
security- relative;
freedom od speech - well said

 

[جوري]

Hmmm - why do you suggest that I am not qualified to debate Africa with you?

for starters I dislike your attitude.. why don't you go focus on your ratbag youth who have just killed a kid from Qatar because they didn't like the way he looked? or do you selectively read?

I have spent a large part of my life in Africa albeit all of that on or south of the equator but I believe/suggest that qualifies me to debate the reasons why Africa is a mess.

Ethics of debate - what does that mean?

I don't care for your list of laurelses save it for your employer!
Africa is a mess because your ilk messed it and have vested interest in keeping it more messed!

 

[جوري]

Qatari boy killed in race attack
David Sapsted, Foreign Correspondent

Last Updated: August 25. 2008 11:48PM UAE / August 25. 2008 7:48PM GMT LONDON // A teenage student from Qatar has died after being beaten in a racially-motivated attack in an English seaside town.

The 16-year-old boy, named yesterday as Mohammed al Majed by Sussex police, died from head injuries on Sunday night following the attack 48 hours earlier in the East Sussex town on Hastings on England’s south coast.

A spokesman for Sussex Police said last night: “Police are currently treating his death as a murder inquiry and are investigating it as racially motivated at this time.”

The teenager was with a group of fellow students from Qatar when they were attacked by a gang of local men outside the USA Fried Chicken and Kebab House, close to the seafront, shortly before midnight on Friday.

He suffered a head injury in the attack and was initially treated at a hospital locally before being transferred to a specialist unit at Kings College Hospital in London, where he died on Sunday.

Three men, aged 17, 18 and 20, were arrested but have since been released on police bail pending further inquiries.

It is understood that the student had been with a party that arrived in Britain from the Gulf about five weeks ago. He was due to return home this weekend.

Chief Insp Natalie Carron said: “The young man’s death is incredibly sad. No matter how rare an incident like this is, the effect on the young man’s family and tragic consequences can only be imagined.”

Police patrols in the centre of Hastings – a town that attracts more than 30,000 foreign students a year, mainly to its English language schools – were being stepped up yesterday, and officers were in talks with colleges to identify any specific problems.

Det Ch Insp Graham Pratt, who is leading the investigation, yesterday appealed for witnesses to the attack to come forward.

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080825/FOREIGN/918120610/1013/SPORT

I wouldn't say rare to a country that thrives on racism..

 

[S_87]

not all of us are pakistani or even from a muslim country at all.

the 4th man was actually a muslim revert of english origin for example

why are there many muslims in the west? because to put it bluntly, we dont hate everything about the west and in many ways its better than the so called muslim countries

 

[ayan333]

eh even with my best effort I unfortunately can't match you in puerility..
Hats off......

anyway sis,hope everythings good...wut part of east africa are you from...ive never been aske dthis but,ignorant plp have asked some of my friends that are from africa ifthey see lions and other wild animals wen they wake up in the morning...so stupid

ok

 

[جوري]

anyway sis,hope everythings good...wut part of east africa are you from...ive never been aske dthis but,ignorant plp have asked some of my friends that are from africa ifthey see lions and other wild animals wen they wake up in the morning...so stupid

ok

my dad was stationed in Tanzania, Daar As'salaam.. that is where I was born..
and yes that is actually home of the serengeti, which is known for amazing wild life..

 

[The_Prince]

Prince tell the Pakistanis on this site what life is like for Pakistanis working in Abu Dhabi, tell them how their UEA Muslim brothers threat their Pakistani Muslim brothers?

I'd like to see every (UK born) Pakistani spend a month working and living in Abu Dhabi and then come back and tell me what life is like living in the UK.

erm i know some very rich Pakistanis in the UAE, i have good Pakistani friends, and they do just fine.

as for Pakistani and Indian Labors, they make more money in the UAE doing their labor jobs than they would in Pakistan and India, so how about you think of that first.

and you prove your a bigot to Pakistanis, you think that the only job Pakistanis can get in UAE is some cheap labor, think again, in Dubai some of the most powerful and richest people are Indians and Pakistanis, even the princes and sheikhs cant touch them.

secondly, many people get rough jobs, so what? my dad used to work in the desert during ramadan while fasting, and now he has his own company, so whats your point? he even had to once dive under the sea, and actually start going into one big pipe to repair something.

thirdly why dont you tell everyone how you white french people treat the blacks and north africans, what about that? you want to act like your so good you white french people always have your noses in the air treating the others like cr@p.

 

[Thinker]

I talked about Pakistani’s and was accused of being racist. I am not racist, I do not hate Muslims; I do hate stupidity and hypocrisy. I referred to the Pakistanis because the majority of Muslims in the UK are of Pakistani origin and the majority of terrorist incidents in the UK involve Pakistanis. That’s just stating fact. (If I am wrong there I am sure someone will correct me).

In answer to my original question I think the consensus view is that Muslims (even radical Muslims) choose to live in the UK because the UK offers them a better quality of life. (We could go into the detail of why individual aspects of life in the UK is better for UK Muslims than would be their life in Pakistan but in round terms that’s the reason they stay here). Does it not them follow that it would be hypocritical if those people didn’t admit that fact and be grateful (as I am) that the people of this island that came before us created the environment in which we live. And those people are your country, it isn’t the soil beneath your feet that is your country it is the people who built upon it and created the comfort, security and freedom we enjoy – I am grateful to them for that and I believe it is nothing less than hypocritical to enjoy those benefits and not be grateful.

Talking about hypocrites, I know (because I have read it) that they are mentioned many times in the Qur’an. In fact so many times I thought they must have been an ancient tribe as they are often mentioned in the same context as Christians and Jews. I have googled the word and find no trace of such a tribe so must conclude that the Qur’an condemns hypocrisy?

 

[Musaafirah]

Yes, Islam condemns hypocrisy, but what are you trying to get at?
You want the 3rd generation immigrants to be grateful to the older British generation for colonialising the different countries?
What makes you so sure that people from the indian sub-continent and Africa wouldn't have had a better quality of life if the British hadn't invaded the other countries?
Yes, I am grateful for living in the UK.But take that in context, how would it have been now, if the British hadn't set up colonies in the Indian Sub-continent and if the situation there hadn't cascaded on causing this mess?
Have you ever thought of that Thinker?

 

[Muezzin]

Only 20 years - and the rest! And I can't see any reason why the next 20 years won't be just as corrupt. It's the same in Africa. Next time you're stopped by a policeman in the UK offer him a bribe (if you dare) and see what happens. That's just a small part of the culture you exist in and enjoy.

This post makes you sound like a hostile, patronising skinhead. Seriously. You're presupposing that the person you're replying to is regularly stopped by police (which could be tongue-in-cheek, natch), and then dare to imply that he doesn't appreciate the culture he exists in and enjoys?

I talked about Pakistani’s and was accused of being racist. I am not racist, I do not hate Muslims; I do hate stupidity and hypocrisy.I referred to the Pakistanis because the majority of Muslims in the UK are of Pakistani origin and the majority of terrorist incidents in the UK involve Pakistanis. That’s just stating fact. (If I am wrong there I am sure someone will correct me).

Do you not see how this can make an outsider believe that you think that all Pakistanis exhibit 'stupidity and hypocrisy'? Granted, that's not racism technically, as much as xenophobia. I'm not calling you a racist or a xenophobe, I'm just saying choose your words carefully, especially on the Internet.

There's political incorrectness for the sake of truth and there's clumsiness.

In answer to my original question I think the consensus view is that Muslims (even radical Muslims) choose to live in the UK because the UK offers them a better quality of life. (We could go into the detail of why individual aspects of life in the UK is better for UK Muslims than would be their life in Pakistan but in round terms that’s the reason they stay here). Does it not them follow that it would be hypocritical if those people didn’t admit that fact and be grateful (as I am) that the people of this island that came before us created the environment in which we live. And those people are your country, it isn’t the soil beneath your feet that is your country it is the people who built upon it and created the comfort, security and freedom we enjoy – I am grateful to them for that and I believe it is nothing less than hypocritical to enjoy those benefits and not be grateful.

Most British people, Pakistani descent or no, are indeed grateful. Sure, certain people moan and complain but if they really hated the UK, they would have moved. Funny thing about this attitude of 'people who don't like it should move' is that it only seems to be applied to people considered to be 'foreign'. An Afro-Carribean, a Pakistani, an Indian or a Pole says something like 'Sometimes I don't like this country' and it's out with the pitchforks and the plane tickets. A dyed in the wool Anglo-Saxon says the same thing and it's all nods and downing another pint.

Who are your opponents? All Pakistanis? Those particular ones who turn to violence?

Or do you believe that all Pakistanis are suspect by default? To be honest, to me, the general tone of your posts seems to be of the generic BNP-style 'Pakis should bugger off'. The reason why I think so is because you continually presuppose that every single Brit of Pakistani descent must either agree with terorrists or otherwise be 'ungrateful' by virtue of (ancestral) nationality. Say it ain't so.

As someone of Pakistani descent, I can say that I am grateful to live in the UK and love it as my home. I also love Pakistan. Both these countries' governments, however, sometimes disagree with me. It is my right to voice my disagreement. In the case of the UK, I can voice my disagreement in speech, writing or by voting. It is nobody's right to 'voice' disagreement by breaking the law and those who break the law should be punished.

Talking about hypocrites, I know (because I have read it) that they are mentioned many times in the Qur’an. In fact so many times I thought they must have been an ancient tribe as they are often mentioned in the same context as Christians and Jews. I have googled the word and find no trace of such a tribe so must conclude that the Qur’an condemns hypocrisy?

It does.

 

[Thinker]

You sound like a hostile, patronising skinhead.

Or do you believe that all Pakistanis are suspect by default? To be honest, to me, the general tone of your posts seems to be of the generic BNP-style 'Pakis should bugger off'. The reason why I think so is because you continually presuppose that every single Brit of Pakistani descent must agree with terorrists by virtue of nationality. Say it ain't so.

Unfortunately I am a skin head, not by choice but because my hair's fallen out.

I have tried to choose my words so as not to cause offence. I hoped that I could ask hard questions in this forum without someone waving the 'politicaly correct' 'your a racist' banners. As I explained I chose to mention Pakistani's in particular purely because they are the majority.

If anyone has been offended by anything I have said, I apologies as that was not my intention. That said, I think that anyone who gets upset just because someone asks about Pakistani's or any other group is a little thin skinned. I might for example have posed the question - "are there too many Polish people in the UK?" Does the simple act of asking the question mean the person asking is racist?

As for the suggestion that Pakistan is the mess it is today because it was once a British colony - that's ludicrous. The Brits left Pakistan with a stable ethical framework for government, that was 61 years ago, 61 years later, living conditions for the poor are worse than when the Brits left. That's another thing alongside stupidty and hypocracry that p**** me off - people who won't take responsibility for their own actions, always wanting to blame their failures on others.

 

[Muezzin]

Unfortunately I am a skin head, not by choice but because my hair's fallen out.

How sad.

I have tried to choose my words so as not to cause offence. I hoped that I could ask hard questions in this forum without someone waving the 'politicaly correct' 'your a racist' banners. As I explained I chose to mention Pakistani's in particular purely because they are the majority.

If anyone has been offended by anything I have said, I apologies as that was not my intention.

Apology accepted.

That said, I think that anyone who gets upset just because someone asks about Pakistani's or any other group is a little thin skinned. I might for example have posed the question - "are there too many Polish people in the UK?" Does the simple act of asking the question mean the person asking is racist?

Please. I didn't take offence to your asking the question, as you'll see in my reply on page 1. I took offence to your continual implication that all Brits of Pakistani descent must have some sort of hive-mind that hellbends them against being proud of Britain.

You know, things like this:

Prince tell the Pakistanis on this site what life is like for Pakistanis working in Abu Dhabi, tell them how their UEA Muslim brothers threat their Pakistani Muslim brothers?

I'd like to see every (UK born) Pakistani spend a month working and living in Abu Dhabi and then come back and tell me what life is like living in the UK.

Why say this unless you believe that every 'UK born Pakistani' (a contextual nonsense, but anyway) is ungrateful in some way for their living conditions in the UK? Stop this presumptuous condescension and we'll get along just fine.

As for the suggestion that Pakistan is the mess it is today because it was once a British colony - that's ludicrous. The Brits left Pakistan with a stable ethical framework for government, that was 61 years ago, 61 years later, living conditions for the poor are worse than when the Brits left. That's another thing alongside stupidty and hypocracry that p**** me off - people who won't take responsibility for their own actions, always wanting to blame their failures on others.

What do ya know, we have something in common.

 

[BNDGR]

This is only my perception....
As a new Muslim I understand the way some people view terrorism and things they here in the news as that is the way Muslims are and they as a whole behave in this terrible way. I never had met anyone who was a Muslim until this year, and it has completely opened my eyes that westerners are bombarded with news and information that is so one sided, I had thought too that violence was the way of all Muslims, and to fear them and thier differences and beleifs.
I can't say I know everything about Islam but I am learning and I can now see past the one sided views and violence that is happening as extremists and not representing Muslim people as a whole.
Like in every religion and with people in general there are good and bad, some who take things to the extreme and misinterpret thier religion and what it teaches and use it in wrong ways, and there are others who follow it and its teaching who live thier lives with compassion and faith and make the world better. This applies to everyone not just Muslims

 

[جوري]

The Muslim world has done splendid for centuries until colonialists decided to dismantle it, with the divide and conquer policy, they've instituted ideas of pan-Arabism, nationalism, they have taken tribes in Africa that have nothing to do with each other and lumped them together so they are constantly at war, they have taken a wedge out of Egypt gave it to Sudan counting on a rift between the two neighboring countries thereby demanding that their' peaceful loving' forces remain in the region to suck the blood of its citizens, they have taken over the Suez canal and all of its profits using Muslim laborers, they have forced opium trade on china, where in the end it had to concede to an open door policy to just to uphold its pride, they have taken over Hong Kong with false promise to give its folks British citizenship, and the minute they were on British soil they were kicked out.. They have shot at large rallies of peace marches in India... They have brought hatred, disease and misery on all that is in their path, and they wonder why folks that were part of the strongest empires to grace this earth, an empire to which even Peter the great had to retreat is now in the worst economic, political shape...and have the nerve to say people should take responsibility.. Well I agree.. you can't treat naegleria floweri with acetaminophen.... we all know where the problem is from!

truly reminds me of this verse from the Quran

2:11 And when they are told, "Do not spread corruption on earth," they answer, "We are but improving things!"
2:12 Oh, verily, it is they, they who are spreading corruption but they perceive it not? [9]

 

[Thinker]

The Muslim world has done splendid for centuries until colonialists decided to dismantle it, [9]

And, if you believe that Pakistan is the mess that it is because it was once a British colony how do you explain the success India is enjoying as it progresses in leaps and bounds towards rivalling China as the worlds next super power, when India was also ruled by the same Brits and left with the same framework of a civil service and functioning government?

 

[جوري]

And, if you believe that Pakistan is the mess that it is because it was once a British colony how do you explain the success India is enjoying as it progresses in leaps and bounds towards rivalling China as the worlds next super power, when India was also ruled by the same Brits and left with the same framework of a civil service and functioning government?

Any small kaffir country that can be an ally to colonial amero/british/Israeli interest will be helped along..
China used to always side with Arabic nations in the U.N out of the six countries involved, we could always count on them.. now with Israeli/china trade secrets.. it is a thing of the past.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5D91631F936A35750C0A961948260

http://www.meforum.org/article/926

read a little it is common knowledge, not CIA hidden files..

anything that keeps any effort to unite the Muslim world will be nipped in the bud..it is really that simple

england is solely behind the Ahmadi sect not that it worked out but... pls feel free to go ahead and read about that too.. it is easy to google!

cheers

 

[Thinker]

Any small kaffir country that can be an ally to colonial amero/british/Israeli interest will be helped along..
cheers

OK I’ve read all the stuff you posted including the stuff on Ahmadi and frankly I believe it comes down once again to blaming others for your own failings. Is there nobody out there who take responsibility for their own failures?

In broad terms Africa and the Middle East are failures. They are a failure because although they have huge wealth lying under their feet, that wealth is not reflected in the prosperity of the people and the advancement of their nation. This is not because they were once a colony of because there is some conspiracy against them, it’s because they are badly managed by their leaders who are corrupt. Some of you will agree with that statement because you don’t like the leader in question and might even believe that the answer is an Islamic state. The problem with that idea is that it’s not just the current leader that has badly managed those countries it’s also all the previously leaders. And, that same mismanagement and corruption exists in counties which are Islamic republics.

The first step to recovery is to stop blaming others; the next step is to change a 1000 year culture which recognises what we (in the west) see as corruption as normal everyday life and business.

 

[------]

A Muslim country doesn't necessarily constitute an Islamic one.

:salamext:

Snap.