Illegal sexual intercourse in Christianity

[Amadeus85]

A big mistake that I believe takes place in the world at large, not just among Muslims, but even within the church, is not enough attention to the source of data on which conclusions are reached. This is especially a problem with regard to Christianity when people make judgments about it based on say the overall culture of a country which is believed to be majority Christian.

For example while in the USA probably 80% of the population self-identifies as Christian, a far smaller percentage actually is active in practicing their faith. This means that Christian influence on the culture is not the dominate force that it may be perceived to be. And so what is culturally acceptable is often mistakenly considered condoned by Christianity, when in fact we who take our faith seriously are actually opposed to it. Yet, and here is the hypocricsy which I suppose all human beings from time to time fall into, though on the one hand opposed to that which pervades our culture we are not immune to it, may sin, and still be guilty of it as well.

Ok but there is a problem with many christian groups who even bless same sex couples, because "Jesus loves all". On anti or pro homo -marriages marches, pastors are on both sides of barricade.

 

[Asiyah3]

There is no such thing as open marriage in roman catholicism. Marriage is a holy sacrament, between one man and one woman.

BTW the orthodox usually say about morality what catholics do. We differ mostly about the authority of the pope.

Ok Thank you for explaining

 

[Grace Seeker]

I think this thread is a bit messy, so I'll try to summerize my questions:

1. Now I've got an answer that extra-marital affairs are forbidden in Christianity.

-What if the couple decides to have an "open-marriage"? Sorry I don't know the right term

2. 1. What do protestants say about...

2 What catholics say about...

3. What orthodox say about...

Premarital sex?

4. Do you think of Jesus's way of doing things (pbuh) as an "example"/"way of life"/teaching? Do you try to follow his example?

I'm trusting that if you understood my above posts that the answers to these question should reveal themselves (at least as far as United Methodists, a type of protestant Christianity, are concerned). But just in case I've muddied the waters I'll take each question individually:

1. extra-marital affairs are considered a sin, this would include "open-marriage"

2. premarital sex is considered a sin

3. I don't find a question #3.

4. Yes, we do think of Jesus' way of doing things as an example. (Now, he is not an example for everything. For instance he was a Jew and lived according to a Jewish covenant that included a Levitical code that we do not believe he ever asked or intended non-Jews to live by. So, just because Jesus celebrated Passover and went to the Jewish temple doesn't mean that we are likewise compelled to do those same things because even though Jesus was Jewish, most of us are not, nor do we feel compelled to become Jewish or live by Jewish law in order to be good Christians. We are members of a new covenant established through Jesus, but not the old covenant given to Moses.)

 

[Grace Seeker]

Ok but there is a problem with many christian groups who even bless same sex couples, because "Jesus loves all". On anti or pro homo -marriages marches, pastors are on both sides of barricade.

Oh, I know this is true. And within my own denomination you would find people arguing both points of view. But what I have written above is my denomination's (Unted Methodist) official position on the matter -- at least it is thus far, I personally hope not, but there is the chance that one day the opposing voices might grow large enough to effect a change.

 

[Asiyah3]

Re: Why is this thread still open?

Now do all persons who claim to be adherents of a particular faith actually keep the proscriptions of their faith? No. In fact I know of none that do perfectly. And that some in this thread have cited those who ignore the teachings of the Christian faith and choose to do their own thing and be sexually promiscuous as being representative of Christianity I find offensive. Surely, those same people would be offended if I were to post some of the dispicable websites that advertize to lascivious sensualities of Muslim men as being indicative of the moral character of your typical Muslim. The standard may be an ideal, and it is a shame that in this particular case it is indeed far too often unmet, but it still remains the standard.

I apologize if I've said something wrong on this thread. But please keep in mind that I know very little about Christianity and I'm just learning.

A big thank you for your responding :statisfie

 

[Asiyah3]

A big mistake that I believe takes place in the world at large, not just among Muslims, but even within the church, is not enough attention to the source of data on which conclusions are reached. This is especially a problem with regard to Christianity when people make judgments about it based on say the overall culture of a country which is believed to be majority Christian.

For example while in the USA probably 80% of the population self-identifies as Christian, a far smaller percentage actually is active in practicing their faith. This means that Christian influence on the culture is not the dominate force that it may be perceived to be. And so what is culturally acceptable is often mistakenly considered condoned by Christianity, when in fact we who take our faith seriously are actually opposed to it. Yet, and here is the hypocricsy which I suppose all human beings from time to time fall into, though on the one hand opposed to that which pervades our culture we are not immune to it, may sin, and still be guilty of it as well.

Now I undrestood when you explained to me the thing about "legal" and "moral" judgment. Now I'd like to ask... aren't all Christians practising?

If you doubt that then isn't this what you wrote an answer to whatever they're not practicing? Can I say that yes they are practising it's just that :

The question as to whether sex outside of marriage is going to be legal or illegal for a Christian is going to vary depening on when and where they live because the law which defines what is and is not legal is written by human beings and varies accordingly. But the question as to whether or not sex outside of marriage is a moral or immoral act is determined in accordance with God's values not man's law. Certainly people may vary in their own interpretation of what God has revealed, and I recognize that there are instances where God has revealed different standards of behaviors for different groups of people.

 

[aadil77]

I agree with Fedos. Sex outside of marriage is not permitted in Christianity.

However - and I may be the only one who wonders about this - I sometimes ponder what is meant by 'marriage' in the context of Jesus' time.
I could be wrong, but I doubt that the marriage contract would have been completed in the same way as it is now.
Does anybody know what 'marriage' meant in Jesus' times?
Was there a ceremony? If so, what was it?

I think most Christians, even very liberal ones, agree that sex belongs within the context of a stable and committed relationship. I suppose some consider the written piece of paper that comes with a legal marriage less important than the commitment made (in one's heart) in front of each other and in front of God.

Thats one way to cover up for the sins of billions

 

[Asiyah3]

4. Yes, we do think of Jesus' way of doing things as an example. (Now, he is not an example for everything. For instance he was a Jew and lived according to a Jewish covenant that included a Levitical code that we do not believe he ever asked or intended non-Jews to live by. So, just because Jesus celebrated Passover and went to the Jewish temple doesn't mean that we are likewise compelled to do those same things because even though Jesus was Jewish, most of us are not, nor do we feel compelled to become Jewish or live by Jewish law in order to be good Christians. We are members of a new covenant established through Jesus, but not the old covenant given to Moses.)

And by which principle is the new Covenant made? (Since you told me that Jesus lived according to a Jewish covenant)

Again thank you very much

Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

Now I undrestood when you explained to me the thing about "legal" and "moral" judgment. Now I'd like to ask... aren't all Christians practising?

If you doubt that then isn't this what you wrote an answer to whatever they're not practicing? Can I say that yes they are practising it's just that :

No. I don't consider all who self-identify as Christians as being practicing. Maybe I'm being judgmental, but I'll have to risk it. I'm a pastor of a church in a small community. Whenever any dies they want me to do their funeral. Whenever anyone gets married, they want me to solemnize the ceremony. But many never have any desire to be associate with the church beyond those two events in their lives. Not only do they not attend church faithfully, they don't think that there is any reason that they should. They believe what they believe and they don't really care what we in the church believe. (And generally they don't even know what it is that we in the church actually believe.)

So, what you have is a group of people who:
1) don't know what it is the church believes
2) don't care to know what it is the church believes
3) themselves do believe differently than the church believes and teaches
4) don't want to identify themselves with the church or its beliefs
5) do consider themselves very much a part of the world in which they live, and
6) still want to be known by the same name as that which identifies church members and sets them apart from the world.


In other words, it does NOT talk like a duck, walk like a duck, or swim like a duck, or even think of itself as a duck, but it still wants to be called a duck. If these people lived in an predominately Islamic country they would more than likely continue to have the same beliefs and practices they do today, but instead of calling themselves Christians, they would call themselves Muslims. Yet, in truth, they wouldn't be any more Muslim than they are Christian, which is only nominally so (meaning, in name only).

 

[Asiyah3]

So, what you have is a group of people who:
1) don't know what it is the church believes
2) don't care to know what it is the church believes
3) themselves do believe differently than the church believes and teaches
4) don't want to identify themselves with the church or its beliefs
5) do consider themselves very much a part of the world in which they live, and
6) still want to be known by the same name as that which identifies church members and sets them apart from the world.


In other words, it does NOT talk like a duck, walk like a duck, or swim like a duch, but it still wants to be called a duck. If these people lived in an predominately Islamic country they would more than likely continue to have the same beliefs and practices they do today, but instead of calling themselves Christians, they would call themselves Muslims. Yet, in truth, they wouldn't be any more Muslim than they are Christian, which is only nominally so (meaning, in name only).

I undrestand what you mean, but why should they live as christians? Didn't Jesus pbuh already pay for their sins?

 

[Grace Seeker]

And by which principle is the new Covenant made? (Since you told me that Jesus lived according to a Jewish covenant)

Again thank you very much

Peace

Jesus said that he didn't come to abolish the law (i.e. the old covenant), but to fulfill it. Our understanding is that this means that he completed it, brought it to a successful resolution, and then told his followers that he was giving them a "new commandment." That command was to love one another as he loved us (John 13:34).

That command is the ethic that those who follow Jesus have for their lives as they live in the new covenant he inaugurated with his self-giving sacrifice on the cross -- "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you'." (Luke 22:20) And was foretold by the prophet Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31

31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

The prophet Hosea also talks about this transformation when God announces that his chosen people, the nation of Israel, have too long lived unfaithfully and broke the covenant he made with them -- covenant which involved far more than just keeping the Levitical code, but most importantly to be a light to the nations that God might be God of all people -- and thus he will himself be faithful to this covenant promise he previously made to Abraham and bring about this victory of a new day in which God is God of all, not just the Jews, but all people. As he says in Hosea:

Hosea 2

21 "In that day I will respond,"
declares the LORD—
"I will respond to the skies,
and they will respond to the earth;

22 and the earth will respond to the grain,
the new wine and oil,
and they will respond to Jezreel. [*]

23 I will plant her for myself in the land;
I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.'
I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people';
and they will say, 'You are my God.' "


[*] Hosea 2:22 Jezreel means God plants

So now, the gentiles and pagans of the world who were not God's people, are invited in Jesus Christ, to become God's people and to say as we do say, "You are my God." But we don't say that as Jews, we say that as former pagans who now belong to the one God, the Jewish God YAHWEH, and the very same God who made himself known to us in the person of Jesus the Jewish Messiah, God's anointed one who reconciled the world to himself through (not Jesus' teaching, but) the atoning work of Jesus on the cross.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I undrestand what you mean, but why should they live as christians? Didn't Jesus pbuh already pay for their sins?

In one since Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world -- past, present, and future. But this doesn't change the fact that God still wants, nay, demands, that we live in relationship with him. I know it is going to sound like a strange statment, and you must read it in the context of this discussion, but a forgiven sinner can still go to hell.

I say that because forgiven people can turn their backs and walk away from God. Forgiveness means that God no longer holds are sins against us. Sin, in the normal course of things would by itself seperate us from God. But in forgiving us, God who can tolerate no sin refuses to let that sin stand between us and him. But you and I still have free will. We still have a choice to make as to whether to trust in God and enter into a relationship with him -- the implication being that we will also trust him to be Lord of our lives and direct our paths so that we ultimately submit ourselves to God's will rather than our own. Or, we can decide that we are the captain's of our own ship, and go our own way. So, while God may no longer, because of the work of Christ, be holding our sins against us, by refusing even still to conform to the will of God and serve him as Lord, but serving ourselves, are free to exercise our own self will, go our own way, and consequently, deal with the reality that we (by our willful action, i.e. disobedience) have separated ourselves from God. And the judgment on those who don't align themselves with God has not changed, it is still permament separation, and that means hell -- a place that I propose that in this way of thinking God does not so much send us as we freely (albiet, unconsciously) choose to go of our own accord.

 

[Asiyah3]

Thank you very much for explaining and being patient with me, Grace Seeker. I'm very grateful for your time

Now I think my questions have been answered. This thread may be closed, if the mods want to close it.

 

[Italianguy]

Simply put, Christians may not engage in premarital physical relations. No excuses, no interpretations, no liberal comentary needed! We as Christians canot do this.

I think the thread has gone off topic. Adultry can only happen after marriage.

Now there is a major problem of denomination amongst Christians in a whole, where we are actually speaking out against eachother. Which I do not do. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christianity equally. That does not mean i don't have a small problem with some of the ways some worship saints or think that ANY man on this earth is devinely inspired. We are only sheep being led by the words and teachings of our Messiah. He loves all of his flock(except the false shepards):hmm:.

We don't have to change the threads to show ANY 3 denominations to answer your question. We all know that it is sin(a major one).

Now on to the topic of Christdying for our sins. I will have to say i don't like, aknowledge and or condone any of the so called liberal or remodeled veiws of certain so called Christians tolerating Gays, lesbians, and premarital physical relations. There actions are a direct abomanation of what law has been given to us by Moses and goes directly go against the teachings of Christ.

Yup, Christians all day are walking around doing whatever they feel, THINKING know matter what, i can do something wrong and because Jesus died for my sins 2000 years ago that all I have to do is ask Him for forgiveness, believe in Him and I am saved.......well if that is entirely true, i can go out 10 minutes from now, shoot you, take your car, rob a bank, by a yacht and toss people over the side for fun......why not? All i have to do is ask for forgiveness and mean it.

This is no excuse to behave like this. We are to live our lives giving all the glory to our God! We are to live our lives spreading the teachings of Christ among the whole world (as commanded of us) and live as best we can, a sinless nature to the best of our ability! WE will NEVER acheive a Christ like nature the way the world is now, unless we change our ways, obey the laws given to us in the Bible...New and old testament.

We should not be interpreting what we wan't, when we want.

As for Christians engaging in premarital physical relations........judgement day is comming....not my call!

As for gays, lesbians, and what ever else there are out there......I will be praying for you...allot!

Synopsis;

Can't be gay

Can't have premarital relations

Can't commit adultry

Can't eat pork (just thought i would throw that in there again);D

Can't interpret the Bible to fit YOUR life...You conform your life to the Bible!

God bless.

 

[Italianguy]

Thank you very much for explaining and being patient with me, Grace Seeker. I'm very grateful for your time

Now I think my questions have been answered. This thread may be closed, if the mods want to close it.

You are probably the best person at showing respect, and apreciation of information provided to you. Thank YOU for being patient with us!

God be with you.

 

[Uthman]

This thread may be closed, if the mods want to close it.

With pleasure.

:threadclo