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May Allah guide you to the right path. Only what we can do is to trust Him. :statisfie
I'm an agnostic now
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May Allah guide you to the right path. Only what we can do is to trust Him. :statisfie
In the name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful
Hi StrivingForDeen,
Perhaps I can relate to you more than most other people. I was kind of where you are decades ago. I was a strong agnostic/atheist. I gave up my birth religion of Islam as I did not concrete evidence of it being right at that stage. Not just that I realized I did not have much evidence of the existence of God at that stage so I gave up that belief too. You have firm belief in one God. I had no belief in God.
Dont give up and keep searching. Inshallah you will find the truth.
IMHO its not a bad thing to try to find the truth.
As an example you could think yourself to be in the right religion. Die, get up and find out you were in the wrong religion.
Even worse. You die thinking you were a muslim (as an example) , you wake up, and you find out Islam was the right religion and then you find out that Allah does not consider you to have been a muslim. Now you are in real hot water.
An any case finding the path is the key en-devour in ones life.
How do you find it is the key question.
I can give you a few pointers if you wish.
Initially I was trying to find that data which would give me proof of God and/or the true religion. Later i realized it more like a job interview. You need to trigger that which will make the Creator both make you see the sign and then make you understand the signs.
But the key factor after decades of thinking and searching is simply...
قُلْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُضِلُّ مَن يَشَآءُ وَيَهْدِى إِلَيْهِ مَنْ أَنَابَ
(Say: "Verily, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides unto Himself those who turn to Him in repentance.'') meaning, He guides to Him those who repent, turn to Him, beg Him, seek His help and humbly submit to Him [Tafsir Ibn Kathir)
I consider it a falsification test.
Reflect on the following hadith the guidance part:
On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifaree (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) from his Lord, that He said: O My servants! I have forbidden dhulm (oppression) for Myself, and I have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except those whom I have guided, so seek guidance from Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except those whom I have fed, so seek food from Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except those whom I have clothed, so seek clothing from Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you commit sins by day and by night, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness from Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all as pious as the most pious heart of any individual amongst you, then this would not increase My Kingdom an iota. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all as wicked as the most wicked heart of any individual amongst you, then this would not decrease My Kingdom an iota. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all to stand together in one place and ask of Me, and I were to give everyone what he requested, then that would not decrease what I Possess, except what is decreased of the ocean when a needle is dipped into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I account for you, and then recompense you for. So he who finds good, let him praise Allah, and he who finds other than that, let him blame no one but himself. [Muslim] عَنْ أَبِي ذَرٍّ الْغِفَارِيِّ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه و سلم فِيمَا يَرْوِيهِ عَنْ رَبِّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى، أَنَّهُ قَالَ: "يَا عِبَادِي: إنِّي حَرَّمْت الظُّلْمَ عَلَى نَفْسِي، وَجَعَلْته بَيْنَكُمْ مُحَرَّمًا؛ فَلَا تَظَالَمُوا. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ ضَالٌّ إلَّا مَنْ هَدَيْته، فَاسْتَهْدُونِي أَهْدِكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ جَائِعٌ إلَّا مَنْ أَطْعَمْته، فَاسْتَطْعِمُونِي أُطْعِمْكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ عَارٍ إلَّا مَنْ كَسَوْته، فَاسْتَكْسُونِي أَكْسُكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّكُمْ تُخْطِئُونَ بِاللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ، وَأَنَا أَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعًا؛ فَاسْتَغْفِرُونِي أَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّكُمْ لَنْ تَبْلُغُوا ضُرِّي فَتَضُرُّونِي، وَلَنْ تَبْلُغُوا نَفْعِي فَتَنْفَعُونِي. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَتْقَى قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ وَاحِدٍ مِنْكُمْ، مَا زَادَ ذَلِكَ فِي مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَفْجَرِ قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ وَاحِدٍ مِنْكُمْ، مَا نَقَصَ ذَلِكَ مِنْ مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ قَامُوا فِي صَعِيدٍ وَاحِدٍ، فَسَأَلُونِي، فَأَعْطَيْت كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مَسْأَلَته، مَا نَقَصَ ذَلِكَ مِمَّا عِنْدِي إلَّا كَمَا يَنْقُصُ الْمِخْيَطُ إذَا أُدْخِلَ الْبَحْرَ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّمَا هِيَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ أُحْصِيهَا لَكُمْ، ثُمَّ أُوَفِّيكُمْ إيَّاهَا؛ فَمَنْ وَجَدَ خَيْرًا فَلْيَحْمَدْ اللَّهَ، وَمَنْ وَجَدَ غَيْرَ ذَلِكَ فَلَا يَلُومَن إلَّا نَفْسَهُ". [رَوَاهُ مُسْلِمٌ]. Reference : 40 Hadith Nawawi 24 English translation : Hadith 24
In a nutshell. Keep asking the creator for forgiveness and guidance with humility. I honestly believe the creator does want you to find him. Believing without good reason is blindness. Seeking eternity blindly is madness.
I am quite meticulous in my thinking and have spent decades seeking the path. I don’t believe in anything without very very careful consideration especially when there is potentially an eternity at stake.
best regards
Hi StrivingForDeen,
Perhaps I can relate to you more than most other people. I was kind of where you are decades ago. I was a strong agnostic/atheist. I gave up my birth religion of Islam as I did not concrete evidence of it being right at that stage. Not just that I realized I did not have much evidence of the existence of God at that stage so I gave up that belief too. You have firm belief in one God. I had no belief in God.
Dont give up and keep searching. Inshallah you will find the truth.
IMHO its not a bad thing to try to find the truth.
As an example you could think yourself to be in the right religion. Die, get up and find out you were in the wrong religion.
Even worse. You die thinking you were a muslim (as an example) , you wake up, and you find out Islam was the right religion and then you find out that Allah does not consider you to have been a muslim. Now you are in real hot water.
An any case finding the path is the key en-devour in ones life.
How do you find it is the key question.
I can give you a few pointers if you wish.
Initially I was trying to find that data which would give me proof of God and/or the true religion. Later i realized it more like a job interview. You need to trigger that which will make the Creator both make you see the sign and then make you understand the signs.
But the key factor after decades of thinking and searching is simply...
قُلْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُضِلُّ مَن يَشَآءُ وَيَهْدِى إِلَيْهِ مَنْ أَنَابَ
(Say: "Verily, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides unto Himself those who turn to Him in repentance.'') meaning, He guides to Him those who repent, turn to Him, beg Him, seek His help and humbly submit to Him [Tafsir Ibn Kathir)
I consider it a falsification test.
Reflect on the following hadith the guidance part:
On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifaree (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) from his Lord, that He said: O My servants! I have forbidden dhulm (oppression) for Myself, and I have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except those whom I have guided, so seek guidance from Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except those whom I have fed, so seek food from Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except those whom I have clothed, so seek clothing from Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you commit sins by day and by night, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness from Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all as pious as the most pious heart of any individual amongst you, then this would not increase My Kingdom an iota. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all as wicked as the most wicked heart of any individual amongst you, then this would not decrease My Kingdom an iota. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, and the humans of you and the jinn of you, were all to stand together in one place and ask of Me, and I were to give everyone what he requested, then that would not decrease what I Possess, except what is decreased of the ocean when a needle is dipped into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I account for you, and then recompense you for. So he who finds good, let him praise Allah, and he who finds other than that, let him blame no one but himself. [Muslim] عَنْ أَبِي ذَرٍّ الْغِفَارِيِّ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه و سلم فِيمَا يَرْوِيهِ عَنْ رَبِّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى، أَنَّهُ قَالَ: "يَا عِبَادِي: إنِّي حَرَّمْت الظُّلْمَ عَلَى نَفْسِي، وَجَعَلْته بَيْنَكُمْ مُحَرَّمًا؛ فَلَا تَظَالَمُوا. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ ضَالٌّ إلَّا مَنْ هَدَيْته، فَاسْتَهْدُونِي أَهْدِكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ جَائِعٌ إلَّا مَنْ أَطْعَمْته، فَاسْتَطْعِمُونِي أُطْعِمْكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! كُلُّكُمْ عَارٍ إلَّا مَنْ كَسَوْته، فَاسْتَكْسُونِي أَكْسُكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّكُمْ تُخْطِئُونَ بِاللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ، وَأَنَا أَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعًا؛ فَاسْتَغْفِرُونِي أَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّكُمْ لَنْ تَبْلُغُوا ضُرِّي فَتَضُرُّونِي، وَلَنْ تَبْلُغُوا نَفْعِي فَتَنْفَعُونِي. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَتْقَى قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ وَاحِدٍ مِنْكُمْ، مَا زَادَ ذَلِكَ فِي مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَفْجَرِ قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ وَاحِدٍ مِنْكُمْ، مَا نَقَصَ ذَلِكَ مِنْ مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي! لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ قَامُوا فِي صَعِيدٍ وَاحِدٍ، فَسَأَلُونِي، فَأَعْطَيْت كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مَسْأَلَته، مَا نَقَصَ ذَلِكَ مِمَّا عِنْدِي إلَّا كَمَا يَنْقُصُ الْمِخْيَطُ إذَا أُدْخِلَ الْبَحْرَ. يَا عِبَادِي! إنَّمَا هِيَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ أُحْصِيهَا لَكُمْ، ثُمَّ أُوَفِّيكُمْ إيَّاهَا؛ فَمَنْ وَجَدَ خَيْرًا فَلْيَحْمَدْ اللَّهَ، وَمَنْ وَجَدَ غَيْرَ ذَلِكَ فَلَا يَلُومَن إلَّا نَفْسَهُ". [رَوَاهُ مُسْلِمٌ]. Reference : 40 Hadith Nawawi 24 English translation : Hadith 24
In a nutshell. Keep asking the creator for forgiveness and guidance with humility. I honestly believe the creator does want you to find him. Believing without good reason is blindness. Seeking eternity blindly is madness.
I am quite meticulous in my thinking and have spent decades seeking the path. I don’t believe in anything without very very careful consideration especially when there is potentially an eternity at stake.
best regards
I have 'followed' this thread. I don't see what it is that's troubling you. You've not really said it. I get only inference, with very well 'choiced' words.
So it seems you have some resistance to the prophet (pbuh). I don't know what aspects.
You mentioned about other prophets (pbuta) but not naming any in particular (I might have missed/ forgotten) again, I can only presume it to be Jesus, which means. . . Christianity. Unless you want to make another branch.. Jesus is not the Saviour. We account for our own deeds and deep down inside we know that it is the fairest and the only way. It is very severe. But we can make it with our own will and choices.
If everything I'm saying above is way off mark, then I put it down to teenage 'waswas'..
Still, it could be a combination.
But then again, these are words of a person, a brother, a father, friend, employee/employer, etc and who is close to being 50, who's read a fair bit in that time, questioned non stop, get frustrated, felt he was being held back, restrictions everywhere.
Then he realised. He really, really realised, that it's all a test. It's there, all there, in the Quran. . Which makes him wonder why do most people (himself too at best of times) still keep the Quran as an ornament?
It is a Miracle, yet we take it lightly.. and the sad part is that you are seeking a miracle somewhere else. You know the answer already.
eace:
So it seems you have some resistance to the prophet (pbuh). I don't know what aspects.
You mentioned about other prophets (pbuta) but not naming any in particular (I might have missed/ forgotten) again, I can only presume it to be Jesus, which means. . . Christianity. Unless you want to make another branch.. Jesus is not the Saviour. We account for our own deeds and deep down inside we know that it is the fairest and the only way. It is very severe. But we can make it with our own will and choices.
If everything I'm saying above is way off mark, then I put it down to teenage 'waswas'..
Still, it could be a combination.
But then again, these are words of a person, a brother, a father, friend, employee/employer, etc and who is close to being 50, who's read a fair bit in that time, questioned non stop, get frustrated, felt he was being held back, restrictions everywhere.
Then he realised. He really, really realised, that it's all a test. It's there, all there, in the Quran. . Which makes him wonder why do most people (himself too at best of times) still keep the Quran as an ornament?
It is a Miracle, yet we take it lightly.. and the sad part is that you are seeking a miracle somewhere else. You know the answer already.
eace:
Insaanah
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The Qur'an is replete with their stories. The entire Surah Yusuf is a story, that touches on subjects such as jealousy, hatred, hatching plots, love and forgiveness, dreams, patience, trust and hope in Allah, indeed it is not just about a prophet, but a family... Most of us can relate one way or another with some of the things in it. Surah Taha and Surat ul Qasas, are exclusively the story of Musa :as:. From babyhood, when put into the basket in the river, found and brought up by Pharaohs family, but still reunited with his mother, travelling with his family and Allah speaking to him, the miracles he was given etc etc. Throughout the Qur'an there are stories of other prophets too - brief in some places, longer in others. For us to learn lessons from. Everyone likes a good story, and that's one of the modes Allah employs in the Qur'an.
Remember though, that there's a difference between what we want to know, and what we actually need to know. Allah, all-Wise, has told us only what we need to know. Otherwise the Qur'an would be too long. If it was a separate volume, as you might have hinted before, then you'd have Qur'an, sunnah in hadeeth, separate stories of prophets etc and people would complain that it's too much. Allah doesn't overburden us. He is the Most Merciful.
Believing in Prophet Muhammad
doesn't neglect the previous prophets, but confirms it positively and emphatically. Someone once asked, here on the forum, that in the tashahhud in salaat, we bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, but we don't mention the other prophets, and doesn't that discriminate against or neglect them?We say "peace be upon us and all the righteous servants of Allah", and in those short words we include everyone, even the former prophets. Salaat isn't routinely meant to be long and drawn out (other than the recitation of one's choice if desired), with mention of every single prophet, or every group of righteous people mentioned separately. Muhammad
is a culmination of the same message they all came with, belief in him by default meaning you believe in and honour the others.Also, look at this ayah:
And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger - those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor, of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous. And excellent are those as companions. (4:69)
Obey Allah, obey the messenger
, reach paradise in shaa Allah, and be with the prophets (peace be on them). Be in their company. Then you can speak to them, pass time with them, you could ask them to tell you all the details of their stories, each and every one of them. What it was like, how they felt. Etc.
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Linkdeutscher
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Read a seerah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa alihi wasalam.
I have.
Linkdeutscher
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If a man transforms a land of polytheism into a land of monotheism, surely that means something?
Why did you post this.
Any time can be hard.
It's the answer to someone's question, maybe not yours but its something to think about either way..
It's also how someone found his way which is kinda relevant to your situation I would think.
I have no idea how you percieve the world! Sorry.
Curious user name. A throwback to the past you allude to in your journey?
Welcome to the forum.
Wishing you a great stay.
P/s great that you chose to share that with us as your first post. See you around?
eace:
Welcome to the forum.
Wishing you a great stay.
P/s great that you chose to share that with us as your first post. See you around?
eace:Jazak Allah greenhill,
The name? Yes it does allude to my past. However, the journey continues. I doubt it ever ends. Its a continuous process as we continuously need guidance. That is perhaps why fateha is central part of all prayers.
The seeking continues. The goal gets modified. As my primary goal was seeking proofs of the creator and his religion once, I now seek to find his love and mercy. If he loves me, then I have found the ultimate treasure. And if he does not love me, then I have lost everything. For that I seek to clean up my soul.
Jazak Allah for your kind words and your kind welcome.
Inshallah, I will see how this forum works out.
May Allah bless you and guide you and forgive you and all the muslimeen and all the muslimaat and all the momineen and all the mominaat.
salam
The name? Yes it does allude to my past. However, the journey continues. I doubt it ever ends. Its a continuous process as we continuously need guidance. That is perhaps why fateha is central part of all prayers.
The seeking continues. The goal gets modified. As my primary goal was seeking proofs of the creator and his religion once, I now seek to find his love and mercy. If he loves me, then I have found the ultimate treasure. And if he does not love me, then I have lost everything. For that I seek to clean up my soul.
Jazak Allah for your kind words and your kind welcome.
Inshallah, I will see how this forum works out.
May Allah bless you and guide you and forgive you and all the muslimeen and all the muslimaat and all the momineen and all the mominaat.
salam
Curious user name. A throwback to the past you allude to in your journey?
Welcome to the forum.
Wishing you a great stay.
P/s great that you chose to share that with us as your first post. See you around?
[h=4]Surah 40:13
MUHSIN KHAN[/h][h=2]It is He, Who shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and sends down (rain with which grows) provision for you from the sky. And none remembers but those who turn (to Allah) in obedience and in repentance (by begging His Pardon and by worshipping and obeying Him Alone and none else).[/h]
[h=4]PICKTHALL[/h][h=2]He it is Who showeth you His portents, and sendeth down for you provision from the sky. None payeth heed save him who turneth (unto Him) repentant.[/h]
[h=4]SAHIH INTERNATIONAL[/h][h=2]It is He who shows you His signs and sends down to you from the sky, provision. But none will remember except he who turns back [in repentance].[/h]
I think the key is what makes one learn lessons from the signs seen or understand the signs. I think this ayat (40:13) says what that criteria is to learn lesson and understand the signs.
Talking about signs. When I read your post a few hours ago, Kiro, I though about the ayat about Allah showing signs in the universe and yourself. I had forgotten which surah it was. As I opened the Quran randomly a little while later. There is was on that same page.. surah 41 ayat 53
[h=4]MUHSIN KHAN[/h][h=2]We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their ownselves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?[/h]
MUHSIN KHAN[/h][h=2]It is He, Who shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and sends down (rain with which grows) provision for you from the sky. And none remembers but those who turn (to Allah) in obedience and in repentance (by begging His Pardon and by worshipping and obeying Him Alone and none else).[/h]
[h=4]PICKTHALL[/h][h=2]He it is Who showeth you His portents, and sendeth down for you provision from the sky. None payeth heed save him who turneth (unto Him) repentant.[/h]
[h=4]SAHIH INTERNATIONAL[/h][h=2]It is He who shows you His signs and sends down to you from the sky, provision. But none will remember except he who turns back [in repentance].[/h]
I think the key is what makes one learn lessons from the signs seen or understand the signs. I think this ayat (40:13) says what that criteria is to learn lesson and understand the signs.
Talking about signs. When I read your post a few hours ago, Kiro, I though about the ayat about Allah showing signs in the universe and yourself. I had forgotten which surah it was. As I opened the Quran randomly a little while later. There is was on that same page.. surah 41 ayat 53
[h=4]MUHSIN KHAN[/h][h=2]We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their ownselves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?[/h]
Tell Serinity to come on Facebook.
Ha ha!
Adolescent can be a strange thing. It is a growth spurt not just physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. That does not as yet include the hormones, intellectual awareness, competition, temptations...
You'll have the unbounded energy of youth but no wisdom of age to guide and it can be like an elephant in a glass shop.
You'll be fine :shade:
eace:- Status