Important questions for experts on Islam

[vodkani]

Greetings all. I have 4 questions that I need answers for. My questions will be questioning the psychology and morality of religion and prophets. If these are offensive and you cannot allow yourself to have an intellectual discussion in these areas, please press back now and avoid causing yourself any distress. If you are willing to discuss the following questions, please feel free. I'm interested in reading what you all have to say, women, men, young, old, it doesn't matter. I have searched for the answers to many questions like these for a long time, but have never found a logical answer. So I thought I'd give the Islamic forums a try.


My questions:


1. Imagine you are a father (if you are not already one) and you have two children. A boy, and a girl. They are playing in their play area, laughing, having fun. You go over to them and you leave some poisonous berries on the floor next to them but you tell them that under no circumstances are they allowed to eat them! You then leave the room, go for a walk, and come back 10 minutes later. Upon your return you realize that your children have ate the berries and have fallen ill. You rush them to the emergency room, and while they make a recovery, they have illnesses that will plague them for life. Constant bleeding, disease, and so on.

Who's fault is this. Yours or your children?

Usually, the sane people will thinking "mine".

The question is simply why is it that such a careless and negligent act is automatically seen as wrong when it involves us, but when god does the same to Adam and Eve with the forbidden fruit, it's somehow ok?


2. In the battle of Khaybar (629 AD) the Muslim army attacked this Jewish town and killed around a 100 people before capturing the town. Muhammad, who was 57 at the time, married a 17 year old girl by the name of Sufiya, on the same night that the Muslims had won the battle. Now I know the age difference here is huge but that's not the issue, child marriage is common in Arabian culture so we'll ignore that. The issue here that's a little confusing is that Sufiya had a husband, a father, and even a brother. All three were killed that same day, when the Muslims attacked. Some sources say that her husband was first tortured, then beheaded.

A second girl by the name of Jawariya was also taken as a slave/concubine by the Arab hordes, so she came to Muhammad and said that she and her relatives had been taken as slaves and she heard that he might be able to help her. Muhammad replied with you can be my wife, or remain as you are. She chose to be his wife.

So the question here is how can you, a Muslim, explain that god's greatest prophet, married a young girl on the same day that her father, brother and husband were killed?

Bare in mind these girls would have all been taken as slaves by the Arab soldiers and no doubt raped, so why would the greatest prophet of god give them only these two choices? Slave or wife?


3. A few thousand years after Adam and Eve failed the test and ate from the forbidden tree that god had created and coincidently placed in the garden where they lived, he became angry with man, I guess we weren't following orders or something. Anyway, he sends a great flood that kills every living thing on earth except for one man and his family and one male and female variety of every species of animal from all over the world.

Question is what did the innocents animals do to deserve being killed? I don't mean the two crocodiles or two elephants that actually made it on the boat, I mean all the thousands or millions of other animals that were alive. Why did god kill all the animals for the mistakes of humans?


4. The verse about beating wives in Surah Al-Nisa. Please can someone give some clarification of what these verse means, when and where it is permissible to hit one's wife, and any other details a non-Muslim should know about this verse in the Quran.


Thanks for your time and patience if you got this far, looking forward to the replies.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

Question 1:

The analogy you have given is wrong. It cannot be applied on Adam and Hawwa 'AlahimasSalam because they were adults, not children.

Consider this instead: the Mayor of a city warns the people that there is a well at the outskirts of the city which is not good for their health. There's a hypocrite in the city whom everyone knows that he is a cheater and deceiver. The mayor warns the people that this hypocrite is their open enemy.

Now this hypocrite spreads a rumor that the water of the well contains mysterious healing properties. The people fall for it and drink from the well.

Now whose fault is it?
The mayor had clearly warned them that it is not good for their health.
He had also warned them that this hypocrite is their enemy and he can deceive them anytime.
The people had clearly understood the warnings. They were not immature children.

Now is it the mayor's fault for placing that well there?

 

[جوري]

The rest of your questions have been addressed ad nauseam on this site, some of them the very premise is faulty, others you're simply misinformed including of the secular laws of the west for the past 200 years alone.
so I'll just tackle the one below

My questions:


1. Imagine you are a father (if you are not already one) and you have two children. A boy, and a girl. They are playing in their play area, laughing, having fun. You go over to them and you leave some poisonous berries on the floor next to them but you tell them that under no circumstances are they allowed to eat them! You then leave the room, go for a walk, and come back 10 minutes later. Upon your return you realize that your children have ate the berries and have fallen ill. You rush them to the emergency room, and while they make a recovery, they have illnesses that will plague them for life. Constant bleeding, disease, and so on.

Who's fault is this. Yours or your children?

Usually, the sane people will thinking "mine".

The question is simply why is it that such a careless and negligent act is automatically seen as wrong when it involves us, but when god does the same to Adam and Eve with the forbidden fruit, it's somehow ok?

Your analogy is faulty
1- God isn't a father, he's the creator
2- Adam & eve weren't mindless children, they were thinking adults

Sahih International
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."​

2:32 to top

Sahih International
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."​

2:33 to top

Sahih International
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."

with that we recognize that Adam knew even what the angels didn't know. So when he was forbidden from doing something, he used his free will to disobey and as with any decision we make, we handle its consequences.

​

 

[جوري]

Aabir you beat me by a minute..

maybe you can populate for this fellow, the other threads or I'll see what I can do..

 

[جوري]

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) Order The Killing of the Banu Qurayzah?

Question:
It is a historical fact that the Prophet directed the massacre, as a punishment, of those Jewish tribes who had betrayed him and had sided with the polytheists in battle against the Muslims. How many Jews were killed in these massacres and were women, children, and elderly people spared? Also, even though the tribes betrayed him in a military alliance, did that really necessitate wholesale murder?


Answer:
Some of the important facts that need to be kept in mind while passing any judgments about the killing of the Banu Qurayzah are as follows[SUP][1][/SUP]:

1. After the Prophet's migration to Medinah, the Banu Qurayzah, with the other Jewish tribes of the locality, became a party to the Medinah declaration, according to which, these Jewish tribes and the Muslim state of Medinah were to act as alliances against any foreign attacks. According to this declaration, the Jews were allowed complete religious freedom and were granted protection of life and wealth as long as they honored the declaration;
   
2. Previously, the Banu Qurayzah were given a lesser status than the other Jewish tribe - the Banu Nadheer - which is evident from the fact that the blood money that they were granted, if any of their tribesman was killed by Banu Nadheer was half that of what was granted to Banu Nadheer. The Prophet (pbuh) corrected this injustice and granted the Banu Qurayzah the same political status as that of Banu Nadheer. (Abu Dawood, Kitaab al-Diyyaat, Baab al-Nafs bi al-Nafs, Hadith No. 3896);
   
3. The Jewish tribes did not honor their part of the Medinah declaration and on the instigation of the Qureish broke the agreement. At this the Banu Nadheer were sent into exile; while the Banu Qurayzah asked forgiveness and requested a renewal of the agreement, to which the Prophet (pbuh) agreed and allowed them another chance (Muslim, Kitaab al-Jihaad wa al-Siyar, Baab Ijlaa al-Yahood min al-Hijaaz, Hadith No. 3312);
   
4. Even after all this, the Banu Qurayzah joined the alliance that was gathered by the Qureish against the Muslims.

It was in this background that immediately after the confrontation with the confederates (Ahzaab), the Prophet (pbuh) decided to take the Banu Qurayzah to task. Even then, had the Banu Qurayzah sought forgiveness for their betrayal, the Prophet (pbuh) may have given them respite, as he did so in the past. Nevertheless, the Banu Qurayzah had decided to fight the Muslims. This was evident from the fact that when Ali (ra) reached their fort, they openly abused the Prophet (pbuh)[SUP][2][/SUP]. The Muslims kept the forts of Banu Qurayzah under siege for about one month. Ultimately, the Banu Qurayzah requested the arbitration of Sa`d Ibn Mu`aaz (ra) - one of the leaders of the tribe of Aws - a traditional ally of the Banu Qurayzah[SUP][3][/SUP] and promised that they would accept whatever Sa`d ibn Mu`aaz decided for them. Later on, Sa`d decided that all those among the Banu Qurayzah, who could fight be killed, while all their women and children be taken as slaves and all their wealth and property be confiscated and distributed among the Muslims. Subsequently, the sentence pronounced by Sa`d was implemented by the Muslims.
It should be clear from the facts given above that in the light of their behavior preceding the judgment the Banu Qurayzah deserved a very strict punishment. Furthermore, it is also clear that the punishment was not decided by the Prophet (pbuh), but was actually decided by a person, who was appointed as arbitrator, by the Banu Qurayzah, themselves.
However, one may still be of the opinion that the Prophet (pbuh) should have softened the punishment, even if it was pronounced by an arbitrator, who was appointed by the Banu Qurayzah themselves. On the contrary, the Prophet (pbuh) not only upheld and implemented the decision pronounced by the arbitrator, but also commended it as: 'in accordance with God's law'.
To fully understand why the Prophet (pbuh) did not soften or alter the sentence pronounced by Sa`d ibn Mu`aaz, we should keep in mind that Banu Qurayzah were actually Jews, who were subject to the laws of the Torah. Deuteronomy 20: 10 - 14 says:

When you draw near to a town to fight against it, offer it terms of peace. If it accepts your terms of peace and surrenders to you, then all the people in it shall serve you at forced labor. If it does not submit to you peacefully, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; and when the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword. You may, however, take as your booty the women, the children, livestock, and everything else in the town, all its spoil. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you.
​

It was in accordance with this law that Moses (pbuh) ordered the killing of all the men of Midian and taking all their women and children as captives. Numbers 31: 7 - 11 read as:

They did battle against Midian, as the LORD had commanded Moses, and killed every male... The Israelites took the women of Midian and their little ones captive; and they took all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods as booty. All their towns where they had settled, and all their encampments, they burned, but they took all the spoil and all the booty, both people and animals.
​

Obviously, on reciprocal basis, the Israelites themselves were subject to the same divine law. Thus, Sa`d Ibn Mu`aaz pronounced his judgment according to this law, upon which, the Prophet (pbuh) declared that his decision was 'in accordance with God's law'. Furthermore, because of this particular nature and basis of the judgment, the Prophet (pbuh) neither had the right nor the authority to alter it.
Because Sa`d ibn Mu`aaz's decision was in accordance with the directives of the Torah, which the Jews accepted to be divine and were, therefore, subject to, the Prophet (pbuh) did not alter the decision. It was, in fact, because of this background of the judgment that when Hayee ibn Akhtab - one of the Jewish leaders - was brought to the place where he was to be killed, he looked at the Prophet (pbuh) and said:

​

By God, I have no regrets in opposing you, but the fact is that whoever tries to deceive God, is Himself, ultimately, deceived.
​

Then he turned toward his people and said:

​

People, there is no harm in the implementation of God's laws. This was a directive of God, it was decided, it is a punishment, which God had prescribed for the Israelites.
​

Thus, the Banu Qurayzah were, in fact, slaughtered by the sword of the Torah - the book, which they, themselves, held to be divine.
I hope this helps.
April 6, 2001

---

[SUP][1][/SUP] This response is primarily based on Shibli Naumani's "Seerat al-Nabiy".
[SUP][2][/SUP] According to Tareekh al-Tabariy:

​

The Prophet (pbuh) sent Ali Ibn Abi Talib (ra) with his flag to the Banu Qurayzah and people started moving toward them. When Ali (ra) came close to their forts, he heard them say despicable things about the Prophet (pbuh).
​

[SUP][3][/SUP] According to Ibn Katheer's Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihaayah, the Banu Qurayzah were misguided by some of their allies that if the Prophet (pbuh) were to decide their fate, he would kill them all.

 

[جوري]

Age of marriage isn't an injunction.. so I am not going to address something millenniums ago whether neither life expectancy of mothers nor survival of infants is what it is today.

from 1884-1914 in the west the age of consent in some places was as young as 7

American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven. Women reformers and advocates of social purity initiated a campaign in 1885 to petition legislators to raise the legal age of consent to at least sixteen,


http://womhist.alexanderstreet.com/teacher/aoc.htm

if you wish to read more about the prophet's marriages
you may do so here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?5337

here is what the Jews have to say:

What is the minimum age of marriage according to Jewish law?
by Rabbi Naftali Silberberg

Our Sages state1 that "it is forbidden for one to marry off his daughter until she is an adult and says 'this is the one I want to marry.'" It is forbidden for one to marry off his daughter until she is an adult and says 'this is the one I want to marry'!
In ancient (and not so ancient) times however, marriage was often-times celebrated at a rather young age. Although we do not follow this dictum, technically speaking, a girl may be betrothed the moment she is born, and married at the age of three.2 A boy may betroth and marry at the age of thirteen.3 Add a comment
Footnotes

• 1. Talmud Kiddushin 41a.
• 2. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1.
• 3. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1.

you search the bible and you'll find that David took a concubine on his death bed:

Abishag Was a young virgin from the town of Shunem, North of Jezreel and Mount Gilboa, in the territory of Issachar. (Jos 19:17-23) She was "beautiful in the extreme" and was chosen by David's servants to become the nurse and companion of the king during his final days.
see 1Ki 1:1-4.
David was now about 70 years of age (2Sa 5:4, 5), and as a result of debilitation he had little body heat. Abishag waited on him during the day, doubtless brightening the surroundings with her youthful freshness and beauty, and at night she "lay in the king's bosom"
to give him warmth, but "the king himself had no intercourse with her." Nevertheless, the attitude later manifested by Solomon regarding her indicates that Abishag was viewed as being in the position of wife or concubine of David. As such, by a rule in the ancient East, she would become the property of David's heir at the time of his death


so is your query simply directed at Muslims? If so, then Islam asks that we marry when certain milestones are met.
1- financial ability
2- physical ability
3- psychological ability to handle a marriage!

 

[جوري]

on 'wife beating'

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Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"
​

Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.

Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/33209-wife-beating-12.html
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.

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​

 

[- Qatada -]

My questions:


1. Imagine you are a father (if you are not already one) and you have two children. A boy, and a girl. They are playing in their play area, laughing, having fun. You go over to them and you leave some poisonous berries on the floor next to them but you tell them that under no circumstances are they allowed to eat them! You then leave the room, go for a walk, and come back 10 minutes later. Upon your return you realize that your children have ate the berries and have fallen ill. You rush them to the emergency room, and while they make a recovery, they have illnesses that will plague them for life. Constant bleeding, disease, and so on.

Who's fault is this. Yours or your children?

Usually, the sane people will thinking "mine".

The question is simply why is it that such a careless and negligent act is automatically seen as wrong when it involves us, but when god does the same to Adam and Eve with the forbidden fruit, it's somehow ok?



3. A few thousand years after Adam and Eve failed the test and ate from the forbidden tree that god had created and coincidently placed in the garden where they lived, he became angry with man, I guess we weren't following orders or something. Anyway, he sends a great flood that kills every living thing on earth except for one man and his family and one male and female variety of every species of animal from all over the world.

Question is what did the innocents animals do to deserve being killed? I don't mean the two crocodiles or two elephants that actually made it on the boat, I mean all the thousands or millions of other animals that were alive. Why did god kill all the animals for the mistakes of humans?

I've merged these 2 questions together because their answer is the same.

Can you prove that God explicitly got angry at Adam and Eve for their error?


Rather what we find in the Qur'an is this;

And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He [God] accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

(Quran 2: 35-38)
​

In other words, God KNEW that Adam and Eve would fall into error, and He wanted to place them in the Earth, it was all part of the Divine plan. In essence, Adam isn't even blamed since he received words from his Lord for forgiveness.

2. In the battle of Khaybar (629 AD) the Muslim army attacked this Jewish town and killed around a 100 people before capturing the town. Muhammad, who was 57 at the time, married a 17 year old girl by the name of Sufiya, on the same night that the Muslims had won the battle. Now I know the age difference here is huge but that's not the issue, child marriage is common in Arabian culture so we'll ignore that. The issue here that's a little confusing is that Sufiya had a husband, a father, and even a brother. All three were killed that same day, when the Muslims attacked. Some sources say that her husband was first tortured, then beheaded.

A second girl by the name of Jawariya was also taken as a slave/concubine by the Arab hordes, so she came to Muhammad and said that she and her relatives had been taken as slaves and she heard that he might be able to help her. Muhammad replied with you can be my wife, or remain as you are. She chose to be his wife.

So the question here is how can you, a Muslim, explain that god's greatest prophet, married a young girl on the same day that her father, brother and husband were killed?

Bare in mind these girls would have all been taken as slaves by the Arab soldiers and no doubt raped, so why would the greatest prophet of god give them only these two choices? Slave or wife?

Another flaw, first 'women of the right hand' (malakat aymaanukum - meaning 'blessed women') are not raped. They are honored, and have similar respected rights as wives do.

Read about Islam, Women and Slavery here:
http://idawah.com/responses/slavery/


Second, her tribe was at war with the Muslims. This is the case with Safiyyah (may Allah be pleased with her) and also Juwairiyyah (may Allah be pleased with her.) By them losing their male relatives in battle, then marrying the highest ranked leader amongst the believers is a sign of respect for them. Since they were the nobles of their own people, it was only right that they marry the most noble amongst the believers. Infact they were so happy with Islam, and God's Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) - that they stayed his loyal wives, and sincere believers till the end of their lives.

If they hated Muhammad (peace be upon him) so much, they had many opportunities to poison him, or harm him because they were intimate with him. None of this happened, they loved him all their lives and believed him to be truly a Messenger of God. His marriages to them is a proof of his Prophethood.

4. The verse about beating wives in Surah Al-Nisa. Please can someone give some clarification of what these verse means, when and where it is permissible to hit one's wife, and any other details a non-Muslim should know about this verse in the Quran.

Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply



The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.
It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is ghayr mubarrih = which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.


Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir. [4:34]

Picture of Siwak:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/speed2kx/256498233_b9c5b8ddf3_o.jpg

And this is the last resort for the husband.

It is also important to note that the woman that is hit lightly is not just a woman who does not cook or clean etc. It is concerning a wife who is lewd or doing unislamic acts (wearing halter top showing some cleavage infront of stranger guys) etc.. And it goes in steps. First admonishing her (advising her) second forsake her in bed (dont sleep with her so she knows that you are serious and that she needs Islah or reformation) and then a final stop to hit her lightly in a way that doesnt leave a mark! [i.e. with a tiny stick]. If she persists in lewdness and shamelessness, then he should divorce her.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?186045-Wife-beating-verse-4-34-quick-and-simple-reply

Thanks for your time and patience if you got this far, looking forward to the replies.

I hope you are sincere in your request for answers, and that they were satisfactory for you. If they are convincing, you would have to consider believing in Islam in it's entirety.

Islam is the guidance of God, He tells all humans:

O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.

O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you,

O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.

O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.

[It was recorded by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah).]

http://sunnah.com/qudsi40
​

 

[جوري]

btw.. can you prove that Jews existed at all in Arabia were it not for Islamic sources? I always marvel at how badly they want to divorce Abraham from anything Arabic or Islamic when it comes to Ishmael, where Abraham settled, of the laws of inheritance and first born rights, yet at the same time seem to cry so bitterly over the Jews who were allegedly Mal-treated. You accept an Islamic source that they existed in Arabia yet a secondary source on alleged injustice that befell them?
I find that intellectually dishonest.. be that as it may treason is punished by death, even here in the U.S
and if you don't believe it then it is prudent to do a little research before hand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

 

[جوري]

As for why the animals died.. well animals are here to serve their purpose, it is the natural cycle of life.. they die of natural disasters all the time, with or without people being grossly sinful.. It is a balance of life with ecology other creatures etc. and frankly even if you are wearing vegan shoes and hugging trees and eating tofu burgers all the time I don't want to hear about your sympathies. Because chances are whatever you're doing in life and no matter how careful you are some animal is being sacrificed for your health, wealth, livelihood, food or whatever else.

 

[جوري]

[h=3]Safiyyah (R.A)[/h] HAZRAT SAFIYYAH (R.A)
She was the daughter of Hayi, Who was a descendant of Hadhrat Harun (a.s) the brother of Moosa (a.s). She was first married to Salam bin Mishkam and then to Kinallah bin Abi Huqaiq at the time of Khevbar. Kinallah was killed in the battle and she was captured by the Muslims. Hadhrat Dahya Kalbi (Radhiyallaho anha) requested for a maid, and the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) made her over to him. At this, the other Sahabah approached the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and said:

"O, Prophet of Allah! Banu Nazir and Banu Quraizah (the Jewish tribes of Madinah) will feel offended to see the daughter of a Jewish chief working as a maid. We therefore suggest that she may be taken as your own wife."

The Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) paid a reasonable sum of money to Hadhrat Dahya (r.a) as ransom, and said to Safiyyah: "You are now free; if you like you can go back to your tribe or can be my wife."

She said: "I longed to be with you while I was a Jew. How can I leave you now, when I am a Muslim?”

This is probably a reference to the fact that she once saw in her dream a portion of the moon falling into her lap. When she mentioned her dream to Kinanah, he smote her face so severely that she developed a mark on her eye. He said: “You seem to be desiring to become the wife of the King of Madinah.”

Her father is also reported to have treated her similarly when she related the same or similar dream to him. She again saw (in her dream) the sun lying on her breast. When she mentioned this to her husband, he remarked:

“You seem to be wishing to become the Queen of Madinah.”

She says: “I was seventeen when I was married to the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . She came to live with the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) when he was camping at the first stage from Khaiber. Next morning, he said to the Sahabah: “Let everybody bring whatever he has got to eat."

They brought their own dates, cheese, butter, etc. A long leather sheet was spread and all sat round it to share the food among themselves. This was the Walimah for the marriage.

She died in Ramadan, 50 A. H., when she was about 60.

Fazail-e-Amaal
Hajirah Foundation

 

[tigerkhan]

first of all i am not a scholar nor an expert in Islam but i will try to answer ur qst according to my limited understanding as a student of islam.

1. Imagine you are a father (if you are not already one) and you have two children. A boy, and a girl. They are playing in their play area, laughing, having fun. You go over to them and you leave some poisonous berries on the floor next to them but you tell them that under no circumstances are they allowed to eat them! You then leave the room, go for a walk, and come back 10 minutes later. Upon your return you realize that your children have ate the berries and have fallen ill. You rush them to the emergency room, and while they make a recovery, they have illnesses that will plague them for life. Constant bleeding, disease, and so on.

Who's fault is this. Yours or your children?

Usually, the sane people will thinking "mine".

The question is simply why is it that such a careless and negligent act is automatically seen as wrong when it involves us, but when god does the same to Adam and Eve with the forbidden fruit, it's somehow ok?

the qst is answered above, 2ndly plz note that from childs u dont expect that they will show some maturity however thousands of practicing Muslims in the worlds proves that the creator had given u the ability that if u want to retain urself from forbidden things, u can. even if u have strong desires for it.
so its the test who will obey and who dont. choice is ur. u can go for any way.

In the battle of Khaybar (629 AD) the Muslim army attacked this Jewish town and killed around a 100 people before capturing the town. Muhammad, who was 57 at the time, married a 17 year old girl by the name of Sufiya, on the same night that the Muslims had won the battle. Now I know the age difference here is huge but that's not the issue, child marriage is common in Arabian culture so we'll ignore that. The issue here that's a little confusing is that Sufiya had a husband, a father, and even a brother. All three were killed that same day, when the Muslims attacked. Some sources say that her husband was first tortured, then beheaded.

A second girl by the name of Jawariya was also taken as a slave/concubine by the Arab hordes, so she came to Muhammad and said that she and her relatives had been taken as slaves and she heard that he might be able to help her. Muhammad replied with you can be my wife, or remain as you are. She chose to be his wife.

So the question here is how can you, a Muslim, explain that god's greatest prophet, married a young girl on the same day that her father, brother and husband were killed?

Bare in mind these girls would have all been taken as slaves by the Arab soldiers and no doubt raped, so why would the greatest prophet of god give them only these two choices? Slave or wife?

well the first thing age difference, its still there in many cultures in corners of world and ppl there dont mind it. actually i feel when u r not aware to some other culture, u cant understand the things just by reading it from internet, it seems very ackward to u but the ppl of that culture are ok with it.
2ndly u know that in that time, if a tribe was defeated by some other tribe, all men were killed and women were slaved and raped openly but if a person dont do such rather he give someone a great respect in conqueror tribe by marrying her, should he be objected for this act in today's world or praised ?

A few thousand years after Adam and Eve failed the test and ate from the forbidden tree that god had created and coincidently placed in the garden where they lived, he became angry with man, I guess we weren't following orders or something. Anyway, he sends a great flood that kills every living thing on earth except for one man and his family and one male and female variety of every species of animal from all over the world.

Question is what did the innocents animals do to deserve being killed? I don't mean the two crocodiles or two elephants that actually made it on the boat, I mean all the thousands or millions of other animals that were alive. Why did god kill all the animals for the mistakes of humans?

actually all living on the earth have to die and its HE who have to decide when, where and how. if we think in ur way we can even qst y he killed everyone after creating, isnt it unfair? y he didn't let everyone live always? so these matter are related to his unlimited wisdom and we cant understand this bcz he created us and give us a little wisdom. He has wisdom so he can decide when and how one had to die, we cant qst it.

The verse about beating wives in Surah Al-Nisa. Please can someone give some clarification of what these verse means, when and where it is permissible to hit one's wife, and any other details a non-Muslim should know about this verse in the Quran.

i am really sorry as i dont know about it, however keep in mind there r two different things. one is a "desirable" and other is "allowed". mean in islam its desirable to treat wife in very kind manner and that is mentioned and stressed in too many places, however since Islam is the complete religion upto last, so "if" anywhere islam allowed u can beat ur wife, that really doesn't mean that we all should always beat our wives. so u see Prophet and His companion have no such example that they did such. so its mere an "permission" (if its so as i dont know) and surely it have too many restriction. i know islam value humanity and u can never slap anyone on face. u have to see practical examples from prophet or his companion to understand this.
Allah SWT knows the best.

 

[جوري]

If you desire to discuss things about Islam 'exclusively' - Know that all you've on the net on relations, marriages, treaties, wars were properly documented by scholars such that no other religion is so preserved historically, but if you'll accept those things as having occurred using Islamic history, then you must accept the history in TOTALITY & you must also put it in context. You can't add your own spin on it and impose on us your (western) desire to accept it as facts.
You're a people who find 50% of your men cheating on your women while married, giving births to children without identity or heritage or laws of inheritance out of wedlock, don't then come and impose on us how ghastly it is to be married after being widowed considering that everything in history points out that she very much desired this marriage and was in fact spying on her father while detesting him and her husband!

at any rate I believe ALL your questions have been answered!

all the best,

 

[Hulk]

My questions will be questioning the psychology and morality of religion and prophets. If these are offensive and you cannot allow yourself to have an intellectual discussion in these areas, please press back now and avoid causing yourself any distress.

Have you studied the religion that you intend on "discussing" or are you parroting something you read off a website? Is your intention to learn or to "show off"?

No offence but every once in a while there's always some guy who signs up, wants to "debate" or "discuss" but it's pretty obvious that what they really want is to feed their ego because they don't really know what their talking about and they enter into it thinking their going to "win".

Reminds me so much of myself from not too long ago.

Oh and they usually start of polite, but when they get a little pressure their true agenda is revealed bit by bit. Other times, they tend to overuse smilies to mask their agenda.

I'm not saying you're like that but I do wonder what your intention is.

 

[dysphoricrocker]

SubhanAllah. I have learnt so much from this thread even as a Muslim. Thank you to all who posted.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

Greetings all. I have 4 questions that I need answers for. My questions will be questioning the psychology and morality of religion and prophets. If these are offensive and you cannot allow yourself to have an intellectual discussion in these areas, please press back now and avoid causing yourself any distress. If you are willing to discuss the following questions, please feel free. I'm interested in reading what you all have to say, women, men, young, old, it doesn't matter. I have searched for the answers to many questions like these for a long time, but have never found a logical answer. So I thought I'd give the Islamic forums a try.


My questions:


1. Imagine you are a father (if you are not already one) and you have two children. A boy, and a girl. They are playing in their play area, laughing, having fun. You go over to them and you leave some poisonous berries on the floor next to them but you tell them that under no circumstances are they allowed to eat them! You then leave the room, go for a walk, and come back 10 minutes later. Upon your return you realize that your children have ate the berries and have fallen ill. You rush them to the emergency room, and while they make a recovery, they have illnesses that will plague them for life. Constant bleeding, disease, and so on.

Who's fault is this. Yours or your children?

Usually, the sane people will thinking "mine".

The question is simply why is it that such a careless and negligent act is automatically seen as wrong when it involves us, but when god does the same to Adam and Eve with the forbidden fruit, it's somehow ok?

Adam and Eve weren't children; they were grown up and living in the 'presense' of God, they weren't your typical wordly grown ups iether; they were God consciencious and minds were quite clear and not pollouted with sin; thus when they 'slipped up' it was a bif slip up indeed; deserving to be ousted from Paradise, but their consequences of this mistake was not forever ongoing; they were forgiven [inshAllah] after they repented on earth... and as Adam was righteous [and presumably Eve too] on earth, they both? would return back to the garden of heaven; this is all fair isn't it?; nor does Adam pass on the 'mistake' to his decendants iether for in the truth, their is no concept of the 'original sin' [i.e that 'sin' being passed on]

2. In the battle of Khaybar (629 AD) the Muslim army attacked this Jewish town and killed around a 100 people before capturing the town. Muhammad, who was 57 at the time, married a 17 year old girl by the name of Sufiya, on the same night that the Muslims had won the battle. Now I know the age difference here is huge but that's not the issue, child marriage is common in Arabian culture so we'll ignore that. The issue here that's a little confusing is that Sufiya had a husband, a father, and even a brother. All three were killed that same day, when the Muslims attacked. Some sources say that her husband was first tortured, then beheaded.

A second girl by the name of Jawariya was also taken as a slave/concubine by the Arab hordes, so she came to Muhammad and said that she and her relatives had been taken as slaves and she heard that he might be able to help her. Muhammad replied with you can be my wife, or remain as you are. She chose to be his wife.

So the question here is how can you, a Muslim, explain that god's greatest prophet, married a young girl on the same day that her father, brother and husband were killed?

Bare in mind these girls would have all been taken as slaves by the Arab soldiers and no doubt raped, so why would the greatest prophet of god give them only these two choices? Slave or wife?

i dont think there was any torture to Saffiyahs husband?, as there is no torture in Islam...; he may have been killed in the battle...

the norms back then was pow's were iether enslaved, ransomed, or killed [some were even freed without ransom], thus for a woman like Saffiyah [ra] who was the daughter of a cheiftan, it would be a great honour to her to have the choice of being the wife of the 'king' of the muslims; this type of treatment makes way for good relations with the 'enemy' too for then the jews belonging to safiyahs tribe, become the inlaws of the muslims; same thing really for anyone other woman that was given the same choice...; and are you sure the marriage happened on the same day?; it could have been a few days later; anyway, that was the norms of the world back then that women of the enemy get captured and the victors marry them or enslave them

3. A few thousand years after Adam and Eve failed the test and ate from the forbidden tree that god had created and coincidently placed in the garden where they lived, he became angry with man, I guess we weren't following orders or something. Anyway, he sends a great flood that kills every living thing on earth except for one man and his family and one male and female variety of every species of animal from all over the world.

Question is what did the innocents animals do to deserve being killed? I don't mean the two crocodiles or two elephants that actually made it on the boat, I mean all the thousands or millions of other animals that were alive. Why did god kill all the animals for the mistakes of humans?

lots of animals die in flood and natural disasters so are you gonig to blame Allah all of the time; Allah gave life and it is upto Him how He ends it; animals are there to serve mankind, thus if it serves mankind for animals to die too along with all the desbelievers [for they sort of had to as the flood would have killed them], then thats what animals are for; Allah has kept animals not only to serve the needs of mankind as we know it, but also to assist them saving themselves; wiping out of desbelievers [and incidently animals too?] helped believers to flourish on earth once again, thus Allah saved many of the animals on the ark

this is the mercy of Allah to mankind, that he ahs kept animals there for the benifit of mankind and animals can be sacrificed for their benifit

4. The verse about beating wives in Surah Al-Nisa. Please can someone give some clarification of what these verse means, when and where it is permissible to hit one's wife, and any other details a non-Muslim should know about this verse in the Quran.


Thanks for your time and patience if you got this far, looking forward to the replies.

if the wife commits adultery, then the husband is to first admonish her; if that maeks the wife repent and sort her self out, then all is good and fine; if she remains unrepentant and ahs not fixed her wayward ways, then the husband is not to share his bed with her, if that dont work iether, and the only option left is divorce, then in order for the husband to try and save the marriage he can only lightly tap her [this is what is meant by 'hit'] on a fleshy part of the body [so that she dont hurt]; that is likey to bring on some humiliation for the wife rather than any physical hurt and this might make the wife see the errors of her way and thus she may change for the better and thus their marriage be saved; this is what is meant by 'beat' in the Quran

hope this helps

Peace