In pictures: Gaza Massacre (Warning: Graphic Images)

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Whatsthepoint said:
How would you define successful?
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I don't want to get into a long debate and go way off topic - but this is how I would define success:

(Taken from Wikipedia) - my parts highlighted in red to help define 'success' in this context.

[edit] Middle East boycott over Muhammad cartoons
Main article: Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons
Wikinews has related news: Saudis boycott Danish dairy produce
Arla's sales were seriously affected by a boycott of Danish products in the Middle East in 2006. Transnational anger among Muslims over satirical cartoons of Muhammed was the immediate cause of this. After the Danish government refused to condemn the cartoons or meet with eleven concerned ambassadors from Muslim nations, a boycott was organized, starting in Saudi Arabia and spreading across the Middle East. The Middle East is Arla's largest market outside of Europe.

On 2006-02-03, the company said that sales in the Middle East had stopped completely, costing the company two million US$ a day[4]. Soon after the boycott began to affect Arla's sales, the Danish government met with Muslim ambassadors, the newspaper issued apologetic statements. Unfortunately for Arla, the boycott continued undiminished for some time.

In March 2006, Arla took out full-page advertising in Saudi Arabia, apologizing for the cartoons and indicating Arla's great respect for Islam in the country. This raised controversy back in Denmark, where women's organizations and some Danish politicians criticized Arla, and called on Danish women to boycott Arla's products in Denmark.

In April 2006, the company said that its products are being placed back in stores in the Middle East. Before the boycott, it supplied 50,000 stores in the area. It announced that many of its largest clients in Saudi Arabia would start selling its butter and cheese on April 8[clarification needed]. Arla has started sponsoring humanitarian causes in the Middle East in order to reduce bad feelings from consumers. [5]


The last point in red for you Whatsthepoint is more of what I define as success in this case. When one has no choice one has to take drastic measures. When the government refused to listen/care the Muslims had no option but to take drastic measures - to the point of punishing those not directly responsible - which resulted in getting what they needed i.e. government attention etc.

You see wtp - maybe you haven't noticed yet - but the governments are very much 'at the top', in control, and oppressing a lot of those 'down below' (in all lands) so a simple phone call wouldn't have helped but IMHO (and I think most Muslims worldwide) it was a MAJOR SUCCESS and your entitled to your opinion.

Can I ask what action you will take to the children starving next to their dead mothers for 4 days?
 
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Those pictures are heartbreaking... :cry:

May Allah grant them paradise and give comfort and strength to their parents. I can't even imagine.
 
S1aveofA11ah said:
I don't want to get into a long debate and go way off topic - but this is how I would define success:
...
Can I ask what action you will take to the children starving next to their dead mothers for 4 days?
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Fair enough, though the main goal wasn't achieved.
Though I don't see how a Muslim boycott of Israeli products could be successful, seeing the economic ties with the Jewish world are already severed in the Muslim world.
Probably none, which doesn't mean I'm not affected by the situation.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Fair enough, though the main goal wasn't achieved.
Though I don't see how a Muslim boycott of Israeli products could be successful, seeing the economic ties with the Jewish world are already severed in the Muslim world.
Probably none, which doesn't mean I'm not affected by the situation.
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Well look at this link please wtp : http://www.inminds.com/boycott-faq.html

and IF what they say is true (I cannot research much beyond their word at this time) then a boycott would be very successful. Might be a case of try is the only way to find out.

Remember here it is not a JEWISH boycott but rather it is directed at those companies that are supporting the racist occupation of Palestine.

Are you in the UK BTW?
 
Woodrow said:
Ameen to the Du'a

May we also use these as a reminder that as Muslims we must never commit such acts against innocents any where. We must remember, those who did this are not soldiers and are not fit to be called soldiers, this is the act of barbarians.

If we go into battle let us go as soldiers and not as barbarians.

Let us use these pictures as reminders of what evil does to us and pray that we never use evil to repay the evil done to us. Fight yes, but fight as Muslims with respect and compassion for the innocent.
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Ameen.
 

:cry:.....:(...Feeling so helpless....Where is humanity... :(

O Allah(swt) please have mercy on the people of Gaza....protect them...save them.....forgive our sins....Answer our prayers....ameen

I hope this ends soon....its becoming unbearable...:cry:
 
S1aveofA11ah said:
Well look at this link please wtp : http://www.inminds.com/boycott-faq.html

and IF what they say is true (I cannot research much beyond their word at this time) then a boycott would be very successful. Might be a case of try is the only way to find out.

Remember here it is not a JEWISH boycott but rather it is directed at those companies that are supporting the racist occupation of Palestine.

Are you in the UK BTW?
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The article claims the Israeli economy was on the verge of collapse without any signs of improvement in 2002..
No, continental.
 
S1aveofA11ah said:
More unparalled evil by Israel, the US and its supporters.
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No, not 'unparalled'. That's war.. it's always like that, a fact few here seem to understand. That's why the only sane thing to do is avoid war, whatever your 'cause' or however angry you may be or justified you think you may be.
 
Trumble said:
No, not 'unparalled'. That's war.. it's always like that, a fact few here seem to understand. That's why the only sane thing to do is avoid war, whatever your 'cause' or however angry you may be or justified you think you may be.
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Bollocks!!


The IDF has no mercy for the children in Gaza nursery schools
By Gideon Levy, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Hamas, IDF, Israel, Gaza



The fighting in Gaza is "war deluxe." Compared with previous wars, it is child's play - pilots bombing unimpeded as if on practice runs, tank and artillery soldiers shelling houses and civilians from their armored vehicles, combat engineering troops destroying entire streets in their ominous protected vehicles without facing serious opposition. A large, broad army is fighting against a helpless population and a weak, ragged organization that has fled the conflict zones and is barely putting up a fight. All this must be said openly, before we begin exulting in our heroism and victory.

This war is also child's play because of its victims. About a third of those killed in Gaza have been children - 311, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, 270 according to the B'Tselem human rights group - out of the 1,000 total killed as of Wednesday. Around 1,550 of the 4,500 wounded have also been children according to figures from the UN, which says the number of children killed has tripled since the ground operation began.

This is too large a proportion by any humanitarian or ethical standard.
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It is enough to look at the pictures coming from Shifa Hospital to see how many burned, bleeding and dying children now lie there. History has seen innumerable brutal wars take countless lives.

But the horrifying proportion of this war, a third of the dead being children, has not been seen in recent memory.

God does not show mercy on the children at Gaza's nursery schools, and neither does the Israel Defense Forces. That's how it goes when war is waged in such a densely populated area with a population so blessed with children. About half of Gaza's residents are under 15.

No pilot or soldier went to war to kill children. Not one among them intended to kill children, but it also seems neither did they intend not to kill them. They went to war after the IDF had already killed 952 Palestinian children and adolescents since May 2000.

The public's shocking indifference to these figures is incomprehensible. A thousand propagandists and apologists cannot excuse this criminal killing. One can blame Hamas for the death of children, but no reasonable person in the world will buy these ludicrous, flawed propagandistic goods in light of the pictures and statistics coming from Gaza.

One can say Hamas hides among the civilian population, as if the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv is not located in the heart of a civilian population, as if there are places in Gaza that are not in the heart of a civilian population. One can also claim that Hamas uses children as human shields, as if in the past our own organizations fighting to establish a country did not recruit children.

A significant majority of the children killed in Gaza did not die because they were used as human shields or because they worked for Hamas. They were killed because the IDF bombed, shelled or fired at them, their families or their apartment buildings. That is why the blood of Gaza's children is on our hands, not on Hamas' hands, and we will never be able to escape that responsibility.

The children of Gaza who survive this war will remember it. It is enough to watch Nazareth-born Juliano Mer Khamis' wonderful movie "Arna's Children" to understand what thrives amid the blood and ruin we are leaving behind. The film shows the children of Jenin - who have seen less horror than those of Gaza - growing up to be fighters and suicide bombers.

A child who has seen his house destroyed, his brother killed and his father humiliated will not forgive.

The last time I was allowed to visit Gaza, in November 2006, I went to the Indira Gandhi nursery school in Beit Lahia. The schoolchildren drew what they had seen the previous day: an IDF missile striking their school bus, killing their teacher, Najwa Halif, in front of their eyes. They were in shock. It is possible some of them have now been killed or wounded themselves.
 
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doorster said:
Bollocks!!
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No, it isn't. It really isn't. imsad

Do you think the Germans showed any more 'mercy' while tramping through Eastern Europe? Do you think the Americans showed any more 'mercy' dropping napalm (among other things) on Vietnam? Do you think the Sudanese government and their Janjaweed allies showed any more 'mercy' in slaughtering over 200,000 fellow muslims? Did the Russians show any 'mercy' in Chechnya? And that's just a few examples from recent history.

The number of children killed in Gaza is horrifying but it was also inevitable considering the relative numbers of them... you said half the population was under 15? It was inevitable not because the Israelis are any less 'merciful' than anybody else, but because that is what war does.
 
Trumble said:
No, it isn't. It really isn't. imsad

Do you think the Germans showed any more 'mercy' while tramping through Eastern Europe? Do you think the Americans showed any more 'mercy' dropping napalm (among other things) on Vietnam? Do you think the Sudanese government and their Janjaweed allies showed any more 'mercy' in slaughtering over 200,000 fellow muslims? Did the Russians show any 'mercy' in Chechnya? And that's just a few examples from recent history.

The number of children killed in Gaza is horrifying but it was also inevitable considering the relative numbers of them... you said half the population was under 15? It was inevitable not because the Israelis are any less 'merciful' than anybody else, but because that is what war does.
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you do come up with some sick crap!

when a sicko like you keeps winding members up by belittling the deaths, it makes it doubly hard (even impossible) for the likes of me to breath some common-sense in to them and calm them down. I, for the life of me, can not understand why they even keep you here!

least they could do is to disable you all for the duration of this shoot the fish in a bowl "war"
 
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doorster said:
I, for the life of me, can not understand why they even keep you here!
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Perhaps because, unlike you, 'they' can actually comprehend what I am saying. I am not 'belittling' anything, let alone the deaths of children. Neither am I excusing anything; far from it. I am simply pointing out that what you are seeing in Gaza is the consequences of war, that those consequences are the same wherever there is war and that, therefore the only thing that will stop it happening is to avoid war - ALL war. It is totally beyond my comprehension how anyone could consider that sentiment "sick crap" unless they themselves were the sort of warmongering hate-filled moron that is responsible for this conflict... and you are clearly not.

Now, are you actually capable of answering my questions? Do you believe those conflicts I listed were any different? If so, why?
 
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I fear no one comprehends what you are saying unless they are Zionist sympathizers..

I have given you a rather large Islamic article to read on 'war ethics' which should be upheld it is the same reason we have international committees to point out guilty parties that aren't in compliance of said laws .. those are the same war ethics by the way that allowed Salah A'deen to give his opponent a sword even though his 'formidable foes' intent were quite clear and anything but noble!
 
Argon Gossamer said:
I fear no one comprehends what you are saying unless they are Zionist sympathizers..
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If the 'Zionist sympathizers' understood, the conflict would never have happened. Likewise if those in charge of Hamas understood, it would never have happened either.

I have given you a rather large Islamic article to read on 'war ethics' which should be upheld it is the same reason we have international committees to point out guilty parties that aren't in compliance of said laws .. those are the same war ethics by the way that allowed Salah A'deen to give his opponent a sword even though his 'formidable foes' intent were quite clear and anything but noble!
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'War ethics' is an oxymoron; even you use inverted commas for the phrase. At best such 'laws' are, and always have been, an attempt not to regulate war but to restrain it and keep its worse excesses from happening too often. Of course they should be upheld, all the time and by all involved, but in the real world that doesn't happen, and never has. As to those 'international committees', you might have noticed that only the losers ever appear in front of them?!

I could tell you stories about the noble Salah A'deen's equally chivalrous opponent King Richard the Lionheart, as well. Who knows, one or two might even be true. Meanwhile a goodly number of the grunts of the age - on both sides - were busy raping, plundering, pillaging and committing war crimes of some sort or other just like their equivalents in every war before, and every war afterwards. The 'away' team rather more than the 'home', perhaps (as people seem so fond of sports analogies) but only as a consequence of geography rather than any difference in ethical viewpoint or moral quality.

I ask you the same question I asked doorster, do you believe those conflicts I listed were any different? In all of them you will find examples of heroism, kindness, nobility and even chivalry, in the most unexpected and unlikely times and places, of which even the mighty Salah A'deen and Coeur de Lion would have approved. In all of them also you will find atrocities just as bad and not infrequently worse, at least in terms of numbers, than anything that has happened in Gaza. That is what war is.
 
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sorry for lateness but one of your pets got upset enough (in your defense) to provoke me, then ban me for 30 days (to teach me manners)
Trumble said:
Perhaps because, unlike you, 'they' can actually comprehend what I am saying. I am not 'belittling' anything, let alone the deaths of children. Neither am I excusing anything; far from it. I am simply pointing out that what you are seeing in Gaza is the consequences of war, that those consequences are the same wherever there is war and that, therefore the only thing that will stop it happening is to avoid war - ALL war. It is totally beyond my comprehension how anyone could consider that sentiment "sick crap" unless they themselves were the sort of warmongering hate-filled moron that is responsible for this conflict... and you are clearly not.

Now, are you actually capable of answering my questions? Do you believe those conflicts I listed were any different? If so, why?
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are you actually capable of answering my questions?
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yes I am (if you will allow them to let me)!
Do you believe those conflicts I listed were any different? If so, why?
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situtation here is like that of N. Ireland. Should Blair have built a wall around the Catholics then do what was done here?

.......................................................

Lieberman – the ugly face in the mirror
The rampaging racist Avigdor Lieberamn is the ugly face in the mirror in which Israel 2009 is looking. A brutal, power-mad country which killed 1300 Gazans, many of them children.
A country whose leaders brazenly refuse to make even the slightest apology for what they perpetrated, who angrily...

 Spain - don't change war crimes law!
European Jews For Just Peace
Letter to Miguel A. Moratinos
Foreign Minister of Spain


Click on the here to see more


Four years to the Bil'in struggle - tear gas as usual
A government comes, a government goes – and the struggle continues. Four years of struggle and non-violent resistance, a struggle which made "Bil'in" into a household name in the Palestinian territories and also in Israel and around the world.
 
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