Indonesia: Another Christian Church Attacked In Bandung

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I bet those mosques and churches are in Muslim countries. I hear some neocons and christian fundamentalists often claim that christians are being tortured and forced to convert and what not. Christians have more religious freedom there than muslims have in non-muslim countries. Maybe becuase its the same race just different religions?


INDONESIA: ANOTHER CHRISTIAN CHURCH ATTACKED IN BANDUNG








Bandung, 4 June (AKI/Jakarta Post) - After yet another attack against a Christian church in Indonesia this week in Bandung, West Java, UK human rights movement Christian Solidarity Worldwide's (CSW) research showing West Java is the launching pad for Indonesia's anti-Christian movement has once again been confirmed. In light of the growing number of attacks on Christian churches in West Java, CSW recently warned Indonesia that international concern was on the rise.

In the most recent attack, dozens of unidentified people Sunday broke into Sidang Jemaat Allah church at Gading Tutuka complex in Soreang, Bandung forcing church-goers, including 15 children, to stop their religious activities, which they have conducted weekly since 2000.

The attackers allegedly forced their way into the church at 9.30am Sunday, hit the Reverend's wife over the head with a bible and forced the children's Sunday School activity to stop.

Church-goer Lidia said the attackers claimed they were from the Anti-apostate Movement Alliance (AGAP).

Sunday's incident shows the suppression of religious freedom in this predominantly Muslim nation continues in West Java, where dozens of churches and places of worship have been forcibly closed by Muslim extremists over the past few months.

The number of churches forcibly closed in West Java alone since September 2004 is reported to be more than 30.

Dozens of other churches have been also forced to close in other provinces.

Under the revised joint decree issued by Religious Affairs Minister Maftuh Basyuni, the establishment of a house of worship must gain the approval of at least 60 local residents and have a minimum of 90 followers.

Shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great), the attackers forced their way into the church and destroyed at least four glass pictures of Jesus Christ.

"They knocked on the church door, damaged it and forced themselves into to our school room," Lidia said.

"They said (Sunday School) was an act of apostate."

After picking up a bible in the church, one of the attackers hit Reverend Robby Elisa's wife, Moni over the head, Lidia said.

Ani, another church-goer, said the Sunday attack was the second to have taken place at the church where the attackers demanded the church be closed.

Last time the attackers said the church was not equipped with the necessary licenses, Ani said.

Church-goers however received permission from local neighborhood communities more than seven years ago to hold their religious activities, she said.

At the time of the first attack, a new head of the local neighborhood community questioned the existence of the church and later demanded the church be closed.

But Ani said, "We are here to serve our church followers because it's impossible for us to go into town to attend church activities -- transportation costs are very high".

Rev. Robby Elisa was away at the time of the attack and AGAP representatives have denied any involvement.

Moni was until Sunday evening questioned about her attack by the Katapang police station.

Muhammad Mukmin, head of AGAP, denied his group was behind the attack.

"In the case of any attack, we usually inform in advance," Mukmim said. "I was at home the whole day because I had attended the funeral of my father and we were still discussing the distribution of the heritage (of the family)."

Hedi Muhammad from the Anti-Apostate Division of the Islamic Ulema Forum (FUUI), an organization in support of AGAP, also denied any involvement in the attack.

"Usually when there is a kind of mass movement, we have coordination," Hedi said.

"We don't know at all from which groups they (the attackers) come from."



http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Security&loid=8.0.421255208&par=0
 
[In the Context of War:]


The Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:


Do not kill any old person, any child, or any woman.[Abu Dawud]

Do not kill the monks in monasteries, or Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship. [Musnad Ahmad]

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Abu Dawud , Book 14, Number 2608)


It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

[Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4320]




 
Force does not create faith, please correct me if I am wrong.
Force can keep faith once its there and can protect it sometimes.

So if there's no faith why use force? First create faith then you can work on keeping it and protecting it. The actions of going into churches pouding people on the head only stop faith from being created.

Sure the children are being intoxicated, and I know how it feels, my fitrah was abused too you know, but it doesnt mean we go all guns blazing, we should do what is best, and if someone pounded your mum with a quran do you think you'd follow their religion?
 
im with talha on this, i dont even feel bad, england posted a link showing a mosque being attacked in england, therefore all is fair, tough luck if they dont like it, perhaps they should stop attacking mosques if they want sympathy when their church gets attacked. what a load of *censored* they attack mosques frequently in the west, now the same happens to a church and were supposed to act all angry? i aint trying to sound mean, but i believe more of this should happen, we need to stop being people who they think they can just push over, you burn a mosque in england, well then expect your church to go down in indonesia! and i am not advocating! im just saying it like it is, if they attack mosques, church becomes fair game dont you think?

plz dont remove this post. :)

now if christians werent attacking our mosques in the west, then i would be the first to speak out against such attacks on churches, but now christians arent angels now are they? nop!

keltoi, as for the 3 indonesian girls, how is that any worst than what happened to abeer and her familly? again, they expose their hypocrisy, they shot a girls familly to death, she was screaming, they then took turns raping her, then they killed her, and burned her body, wow and they have the audacity to always bring up the incident of the 3 indonesian girls like as if to show their saints and a purely lovable people. boy do they really make me sick! shukran admins plz dont remove this! shukran!
 
now if christians werent attacking our mosques in the west, then i would be the first to speak out against such attacks on churches, but now christians arent angels now are they? nop!

Man! Do you come from Moon? How do you know that those who attacked this mosque were christians? In England only about 65 % of people are christians. BTW you really want to play the game eye for an eye? Church burned for mosque burned? I am sorry but it is completely not in my style to seek revenge on innocent people. But i guess that you like this style.

shukran admins plz dont remove this! shukran!

Yes , dont remove this post, it is very significant.
 
yes, i am ALL for an eye for an eye, hey i know for a fact most mosque burnings aand attacks are by christians. for instance the site bombislam.com has a group of trashy american christians SHOOTING THE QURAN, then pouring beer over it and urinating on it! so yes christians are very capable of doing these heinous things such as attacking mosques and i know its them doing it!

and quite frankly, lets say they arent christians doing it, i still dont care, you guys claim the west is based onnnnnnnn judeo-christian values, hence control your ppl then right? it seems you dont control your ppl since such incidents against mosques happens on a frequent bases showing you actually dont care, infact christians INCITE IT, what do you expect? christian missionaries, evangelicals, and politicians always go around saying mosquessssss do this and that etc etc hence their making ppl hate mosques and wanting to attack them! go read robert spencer, daniel pipes, all christians always inciting negativity towards mosques, what u think the outcome will be? so therefore christians are STILL responsible hence when ur church goes down, then u know u cant opress us without getting away with it, i cant stress this enough, although there are many muslims in the west, whom you villify, attack, and incite against, never forget that your ppl are also in our lands, and im not advocating, im just saying, what u do to us there will have consequences on your own folks here, and hey thats a fact, it aint like im calling for it, im just stating a common fact which is human nature. im in a muslim country, and i havent attacked nor do i plan to go beat up any westerner, my neighbors are western, hence dont twist what im saying to claim heyyyyy hes advocating, nop, im stating fact and you know i am.
 
and also what in the hell do you think the outcome will be when your politicians go around using words such as ISLAMIC FACIST, you think average joe or shmoe is gonna make a dinstinction or will he just lump all ppl who are muslims into that bracket? i think you and i know this, oh you follow Islam?! hey Islamic facist! Islam=Islamic same same and our leader said ISLAMIC facist your the enemyyyyyy im gona beat you up and attack your centers! thats how average joe and shmoe will think after hearing such terms. its like when jack straw started attacking the veil, the next week women in veils start getting attacked! so your leaders whom profess their faith in christ such as blair and bush are ALWAYS inciting attacks on muslims and our places of worship, so quite frankly your thread topic is simple hypocrisy and double standards.
 
I was slowly beginning to think that islam was miss understood, this was a good reminder of how the religion of peace spread.
 
I was slowly beginning to think that islam was miss understood, this was a good reminder of how the religion of peace spread.

and Islam spread to indonesia, malaysia etc through no wars, so your assertion that Islam was solely spread by the sword is debunked here. go worship fire as your (and mine) backward persian ancestors did, soon you will see alottttttttt of fire. but too bad you wont enjoy it. :(
 
and Islam spread to indonesia, malaysia etc through no wars, so your assertion that Islam was solely spread by the sword is debunked here. go worship fire as your (and mine) backward persian ancestors did, soon you will see alottttttttt of fire. but too bad you wont enjoy it. :(

Thankyou:statisfie

I do not worshipp fire, but the one and only God. Ahura Mazda.
 
Just a reminder, direct arguments towards the topic and not any individual members.

This thread is getting heated and tempers are high. At the moment I do not plan to close the thread nor delete any posts that have been already posted.

However, any posts from this point forward that are a personal attack on any member, will be deleted.

Argue the topic, not the posters.
 
Just a reminder, direct arguments towards the topic and not any individual members.

This thread is getting heated and tempers are high. At the moment I do not plan to close the thread nor delete any posts that have been already posted.

However, any posts from this point forward that are a personal attack on any member, will be deleted.

Argue the topic, not the posters.

sir yes sir!
 
and quite frankly, lets say they arent christians doing it, i still dont care, you guys claim the west is based onnnnnnnn judeo-christian values, hence control your ppl then right?

Shalom,

Sami, do you really believe in that type of collective responsibility? Under that logic, it would be justified for me to go burn down a mosque because of an event that occurs in Pakistan. It doesn't seem right and I genuinly hope you do not actually believe in such a thing. The logic your using, defends the ignorant who label Muslims as "Islamic facists" because they can just say, "Oh, they are killing Christians so they must all be Islamic facist"... Don't continue a dangerous cycle which the actual "facists" perpetuate.
 
Actually, the churches were attacked by Anti-Apostacy group. Those churches belong to ethnic Javanese, Sundanese and Batavians who became Christians.

Currently there are about:

* Javanese (Javanese Speaking) Christians - 7,766,840
* Javanese (Indonesian Speaking) Christians - 2,205,537
* Sundanese (Sundanese Speaking) Christians - 20,852
* Sundanese (Indonesian Speaking) Christians - 60,151
* Batavian Christians - 249,515

They even have their own churches:

* Christian Church of North Central Java - 22,600 members
* Christian Churches of Java - 299,000 members
* East Java Christian Church - 153,000 members
* Evangelical Christian Church in Java - 73,800 members
* Indonesian Christian Church in Central Java - 73,400 members
* Indonesian Christian Church in East Java - 23,700 members
* Indonesian Christian Church in West Java - 42,400 members
* Javanese Mennonite Church - 71,300 members
 
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Aj caramba! I leave one thread because of an anti-Hindu hit the pinata contest and I stumble into an anti-Christian and anti-Zororastrian pinata contest.

Woohoo! This is real progress. Nobody has blamed the Jews for anything in this thread.

Let's see, the Budhists took it on the chin in regard to separatists in Thailand about 2 days ago. Who is left? The Rastafarians? Surely they have accidentally burned something down by leaving some ganga smoldering.
 
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Nobody has blamed the Jews for anything in this thread.

Shalom,

Do not speak to soon, *Sarcasm* - I am sure we had a hand in this somehow. - *Sarcasm*
 
I was slowly beginning to think that islam was miss understood, this was a good reminder of how the religion of peace spread.
actually the spread of Islam in Indonesia was peaceful,more peaceful than in other regions.I got this info from wiki and had it checked too.

What is that Islamic principle we keep hearing about...you know, the one where Muslims are commanded to live in harmony with those of other religions in an Islamic state?
I admit when it comes to evangelism by other religions ,or forcing of different ideologies by other people onto Muslims, things will be different.anything but peaceful.
and anti-christian ,anti-missionary activites are not uncommon.It happened in India(the Indian envoy was talking about secularism;someone mentioned about this missionary who was killed along with his two sons) but I think it might have stopped now.It happened in Bangladesh here too,a missionary killed(a native he himself being a convert).

err...as this thread was about "anti-apostacy group" ,I am assuming the the attacks were done on the Chruches mainly due to seccusful evangelism,right?
or did the Indonesians converted on their own.
 
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