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When relocating to a foreign country, should Islamic people be expected to integrate into the society in which they choose to live?

Should a non-muslim, or liberal muslim be expected to integrate into a traditional Islamic society, if they choose to relocate?
 
When relocating to a foreign country, should Islamic people be expected to integrate into the society in which they choose to live?

Should a non-muslim, or liberal muslim be expected to integrate into a traditional Islamic society, if they choose to relocate?

1st question - yes, absolutely.
2nd question - i really can't imagine a non-muslim or liberal muslim wanting to live in a traditional muslim society, like pakistan, afghanistan, saudi etc. etc.
 
When relocating to a foreign country, should Islamic people be expected to integrate into the society in which they choose to live?
If you mean by integrate - contribute, yes. If you mean by integrate - assimilate, no.
Should a non-muslim, or liberal muslim be expected to integrate into a traditional Islamic society, if they choose to relocate?
As above.
 
Muslim immigrants should tolerate and integrate, but assimilate as long as it not contrary to Islam. The Huis in China are the best example.

Non Muslim immigrants should be very cautious to local laws and sentiments when thy are in Muslim countries. for example touching a Malay's head, is very offensive!!! You could be injured or killed for that ... remember that the word 'amok' derived from Malay language. It's part of Malay culture to honour ones head.
 
Muslim immigrants should tolerate and integrate, but assimilate as long as it not contrary to Islam. The Huis in China are the best example.

Non Muslim immigrants should be very cautious to local laws and sentiments when thy are in Muslim countries. for example touching a Malay's head, is very offensive!!! You could be injured or killed for that ... remember that the word 'amok' derived from Malay language. It's part of Malay culture to honour ones head.

Very interesting. I'll look up the Huis, and touching a Malay's head. I'm curious.

"Muslim immigrants should tolerate and integrate, but assimilate as long as it not contrary to Islam. "

I wonder if Muslim should even immigrate to another country, if they feel the society will not peacefully accept Islamic practices???
 

I wonder if Muslim should even immigrate to another country, if they feel the society will not peacefully accept Islamic practices???


On the contrary - I believe it might be an opportunity to promote inter-faith dialogue and to promote tolerance and acceptance. It is also an opportunity to 'break down the barriers' that exist, including the sterotypes people have about Islam and Muslims.

Peace
 
On the contrary - I believe it might be an opportunity to promote inter-faith dialogue and to promote tolerance and acceptance. It is also an opportunity to 'break down the barriers' that exist, including the sterotypes people have about Islam and Muslims.

Peace

I too like to think in this optomistic manner. However, it upsets me to hear so many complain about the Western influence in Islamic countries. Countries with high Muslim populations do not seem to welcome Westerners, and offer tolerance and acceptance. Perhaps before Muslims can relocate to highly populated Christian countries, and enjoy their Islamic culture in peace, the Eastern countries need to make a greater effort at welcoming Westerners and their ideas. Something to ponder.....:?
 
I too like to think in this optomistic manner. However, it upsets me to hear so many complain about the Western influence in Islamic countries. Countries with high Muslim populations do not seem to welcome Westerners, and offer tolerance and acceptance.
It's exactly the same in the West. If any of you guys saw that 30 days program on channel 4 a few days ago you'll have seen the average american has every negative thought about a muslim you can think of. One christian complained about the azhan (call to prayer) - said it was part of her religion not to hear other's call to prayer (I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was pretty much that). What ze hell?!

Perhaps before Muslims can relocate to highly populated Christian countries, and enjoy their Islamic culture in peace, the Eastern countries need to make a greater effort at welcoming Westerners and their ideas. Something to ponder.....:?
It works both ways. The west is considerably arrogant and ignorant to other cultures and similarly the East isn't just going to welcome any old westerner, unless you're in saudi in which case you'll be treated like a king/queen for your time spent there. :p.

Two completely different cultures and you're asking for interconnection? It's gonna take a lot of time and a truck-load more patience. I do think that it can be achieved but people's perceptions nowadays are as they are: considerably negative.
 
I too like to think in this optomistic manner. However, it upsets me to hear so many complain about the Western influence in Islamic countries. Countries with high Muslim populations do not seem to welcome Westerners, and offer tolerance and acceptance. Perhaps before Muslims can relocate to highly populated Christian countries, and enjoy their Islamic culture in peace, the Eastern countries need to make a greater effort at welcoming Westerners and their ideas. Something to ponder.....:?

Easterners ... are tolerant people, but minority of us are racists (regardless of religious groups). When an easterner is racist ... he is 10 times worser than sissy neo nazis.
 
It's exactly the same in the West. If any of you guys saw that 30 days program on channel 4 a few days ago you'll have seen the average american has every negative thought about a muslim you can think of. One christian complained about the azhan (call to prayer) - said it was part of her religion not to hear other's call to prayer (I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was pretty much that). What ze hell?!

Well it is not exactly the same in the West because the West tries. You pick up a school book in the West and it tries to bend over backwards to be fair to non-Europeans. You pick up any one in the Muslim world and what will you find? Even take a moderate country like Malaysia and the ruling party (which is a moderate party) feels the need to promise to murder Chinese ever few years.

However are you sure that you haven't misunderstood the woman? After all it is said to be part of traditional Islamic law, how justly I do not know, that dhimmis must not let the sounds of their religious practice reach the ears of Muslims - no bells, no songs, no nothing.

Two completely different cultures and you're asking for interconnection? It's gonna take a lot of time and a truck-load more patience. I do think that it can be achieved but people's perceptions nowadays are as they are: considerably negative.

I think that time has passed. As depressing as it is to admit, the only likely solution now is the Sharon Plan - no co-existence, and a big fence between the two.
 
Even take a moderate country like Malaysia and the ruling party (which is a moderate party) feels the need to promise to murder Chinese ever few years.

UMNO want to kill chinese? :muddlehea

I don't know what they want. But every few years someone feels the need to say something to that effect. Whether they mean it or not I do not know. Somewhere I have a transcript of Najib Razak promising to "bathe his keris in Chinese blood" in 1987. When he was a UMNO Youth League Chief. What did he go on to become? Did UMNO sack him?
 
Well it is not exactly the same in the West because the West tries. You pick up a school book in the West and it tries to bend over backwards to be fair to non-Europeans. You pick up any one in the Muslim world and what will you find? Even take a moderate country like Malaysia and the ruling party (which is a moderate party) feels the need to promise to murder Chinese ever few years.
Maybe, but the west is taught very little of other cultures and even less on religion.

However are you sure that you haven't misunderstood the woman? After all it is said to be part of traditional Islamic law, how justly I do not know, that dhimmis must not let the sounds of their religious practice reach the ears of Muslims - no bells, no songs, no nothing.
My point was: it's one rule for you and another for me: i can put up with your church bell ringings but when the adhan goes, all hell breaks lose? Jeez, and I thought we were the bad guys (!)

I think that time has passed.
I don't know about that. Maybe in certain countries it's not so bad. But like you said at the beginning: the west tries - which means there is still a barrier. Granted, the West does try, but perhaps it's trying too much or in the wrong way (oh i don't know, invading countries perhaps?)

As depressing as it is to admit, the only likely solution now is the Sharon Plan - no co-existence, and a big fence between the two.
Long live democracy: let's crap on those who say/believe otherwise.
I think there can be co-existence. People just need to open their eyes a little and stop taking the media as God written.
 
I don't know what they want. But every few years someone feels the need to say something to that effect. Whether they mean it or not I do not know. Somewhere I have a transcript of Najib Razak promising to "bathe his keris in Chinese blood" in 1987. When he was a UMNO Youth League Chief. What did he go on to become? Did UMNO sack him?

1987? Ohh... I was sooo small that time!! I dont know about it. Maybe I should ask my parents about this.:?
 
It's exactly the same in the West. If any of you guys saw that 30 days program on channel 4 a few days ago you'll have seen the average american has every negative thought about a muslim you can think of. One christian complained about the azhan (call to prayer) - said it was part of her religion not to hear other's call to prayer (I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was pretty much that). What ze hell?!

I would suggest more interfaith dialogue. However, I can understand the negative thoughts that Americans may have toward Islamic people who do not conform to our society. I have not experienced this disdain myself, but this may be because the Muslims in my area have pretty much integrated.

It works both ways. The west is considerably arrogant and ignorant to other cultures and similarly the East isn't just going to welcome any old westerner, unless you're in saudi in which case you'll be treated like a king/queen for your time spent there. :p.

Like HeiGou stated, at least the West has tried to accomodate Easterners. I don't see as much effort being exerted by Islamic countries.

Two completely different cultures and you're asking for interconnection? It's gonna take a lot of time and a truck-load more patience. I do think that it can be achieved but people's perceptions nowadays are as they are: considerably negative.

This interconnection may not happen in my lifetime. I do like to think that it is possible. Perhaps for the time being, we should all stay in our own countries and adhere to our own cultural practices, unless we are willing adopt a new cultural practice.

:) :? :)
 
Perhaps for the time being, we should all stay in our own countries and adhere to our own cultural practices, unless we are willing adopt a new cultural practice.
Agreed. Now if the west say out of the east and vice versa, just for a few years, i think people will have cooled off. And when I mean stay out, i mean no media on it, no joking about it, no crapping all over their beliefs. But seeing as were are all humans here, it's not going to happen.
 
Agreed. Now if the west say out of the east and vice versa, just for a few years, i think people will have cooled off. And when I mean stay out, i mean no media on it, no joking about it, no crapping all over their beliefs. But seeing as were are all humans here, it's not going to happen.


Your idea sounds great. Perhaps we need to restrict all visa's between the East and West for a specified time period. Now if only WE could rule the world.:grumbling
 
How about those who are West+East? :rollseyes where should they go? My grandmother is half Dutch, half Betawi - where should she be?:exhausted
 

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