integration

[renak]

How about those who are West+East? :rollseyes where should they go? My grandmother is half Dutch, half Betawi - where should she be?:exhausted

Wherever her family resides. She needs to be with her loved ones. We should not force people to leave their current country of residence. We will just prevent further entries and exits.

 

[HeiGou]

1987? Ohh... I was sooo small that time!! I dont know about it. Maybe I should ask my parents about this.:?

I think that I could probably find near a dozen other incidents since then. Every UMNO conference someone seems to feel the need to hold up a banner about May 13. Maybe it will get better now MM is gone. I doubt it.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

we'll respect the ruler and obey his rulings lest they go against islamic beliefs wherever we are.

 

[HeiGou]

Maybe, but the west is taught very little of other cultures and even less on religion.

As compare to whom? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Try and find anything in any Western textbook that says anything about Muslims remotely like this:

God has said [in the Qur'an]: 'You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews.' (Surat al-Ma'idah, 82). God has said: 'You will please neither the Jews nor the Christians unless you follow their faith.' (Surat al-Baqarah, 120)
Geography, Grade 6, (1999) p. 43

There is no doubt that the Muslims' power irritates the infidels and spreads envy in the hearts of the enemies of Islam - Christians, Jews and others - so they plot against them, gather [their] force against them, harass them and seize every opportunity in order to eliminate the Muslims. Examples of this enmity are innumerable, beginning with the plot of the Jews against the Messenger and the Muslims at the first appearance of the light of Islam and ending with what is happening to Muslims today - a malicious Crusader-Jewish alliance striving to eliminate Islam from all the continents. Those massacres that were directed against the Muslim people of Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Muslims of Burma and the Philippines, and in Africa, are the greatest proof of the malice and hatred harbored by the enemies of Islam to this religion.​

My point was: it's one rule for you and another for me: i can put up with your church bell ringings but when the adhan goes, all hell breaks lose? Jeez, and I thought we were the bad guys (!)

Just like Islam then! I agree that everything ought to apply equally.

Long live democracy: let's crap on those who say/believe otherwise.
I think there can be co-existence. People just need to open their eyes a little and stop taking the media as God written.

Democracy cannot survive if it tolerates the intolerable. I hope there can be coexistence but I think that time has come and gone. The media is not the problem and blaming them won't get anyone anywhere. They reflect, not cause, community atittudes except the community is probably even more extreme.

 

[Knut Hamsun]

we'll respect the ruler and obey his rulings lest they go against islamic beliefs wherever we are.

That seems to be the problem. I am pretty sure that true islam is impossible under current laws of uk or usa . So do you not respect some laws?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

That seems to be the problem. I am pretty sure that true islam is impossible under current laws of uk or usa . So do you not respect some laws?

tax sux! Everything else we can abide by. ;D

 

[renak]

we'll respect the ruler and obey his rulings lest they go against islamic beliefs wherever we are.

A persons interpretation of the Islamic beliefs may not fit into the established Western society. If this were the case, I think it's fair to say that he/she should graciously accept the rules they oppose, or relocate to an already established Islamic society.

 

[north_malaysian]

She is cool by me. She is welcome here, as are you! kay:

kay: But, I think both of us prefer living in Malaysia. Even my aunt (She's Norwegian) loves living in Malaysia.

 

[north_malaysian]

Wherever her family resides. She needs to be with her loved ones. We should not force people to leave their current country of residence. We will just prevent further entries and exits.

prevent further entris and exits? It'll be a problem. Countries like Malaysia and UAE needs more Western professionals to develop our nations.

 

[renak]

tax sux! Everything else we can abide by. ;D

Not a bad outlook. lol kay:

 

[Knut Hamsun]

kay: But, I think both of us prefer living in Malaysia. Even my aunt (She's Norwegian) loves living in Malaysia.

Then I wish you well in Malaysia! I bet I would like it too.

 

[north_malaysian]

I think that I could probably find near a dozen other incidents since then. Every UMNO conference someone seems to feel the need to hold up a banner about May 13. Maybe it will get better now MM is gone. I doubt it.

You've observed UMNO Annual Conference more than me then... it's kinda boring watching conservative nationalists talking.

MM's tongue is very problematic, I really hate it when he said Jews rule the world by proxy. Crazy!:skeleton:

 

[north_malaysian]

Then I wish you well in Malaysia! I bet I would like it too.

Thank you!:happy:

 

[HeiGou]

prevent further entris and exits? It'll be a problem. Countries like Malaysia and UAE needs more Western professionals to develop our nations.

It is a pity that the Malaysian government runs programs designed to make sure the Chinese and Indian communities do not produce Malaysia's own indigenous professionals!

It will be a problem for some. I would miss not going to Malaysia every now and then myself. But if the entire Muslims world were locked out of the rest of the world I don't think the rest of us would miss it much. And as Malaysia and the UAE become more and more dangerous no doubt many non-Muslims will move out. Malaysia has already lost what? 2 million ethnic Chinese and 500,000 ethnic Indians since Independence.

The future of the entire Muslim world looks like Bangaldesh if you ask me - surrounded by big tall fences patrolled by men with guns and no way out. Malaysia will have such a fence with Thailand soon.

 

[aamirsaab]

As compare to whom? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Try and find anything in any Western textbook that says anything about Muslims remotely like this:

God has said [in the Qur'an]: 'You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews.' (Surat al-Ma'idah, 82). God has said: 'You will please neither the Jews nor the Christians unless you follow their faith.' (Surat al-Baqarah, 120)
Geography, Grade 6, (1999) p. 43

There is no doubt that the Muslims' power irritates the infidels and spreads envy in the hearts of the enemies of Islam - Christians, Jews and others - so they plot against them, gather [their] force against them, harass them and seize every opportunity in order to eliminate the Muslims. Examples of this enmity are innumerable, beginning with the plot of the Jews against the Messenger and the Muslims at the first appearance of the light of Islam and ending with what is happening to Muslims today - a malicious Crusader-Jewish alliance striving to eliminate Islam from all the continents. Those massacres that were directed against the Muslim people of Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Muslims of Burma and the Philippines, and in Africa, are the greatest proof of the malice and hatred harbored by the enemies of Islam to this religion.​

I wasn't comparing it with other countries - just in general. Take for example the cartoons of the prophet. Now, if those individuals who drew them were taught about how respected the prophet [saw/pbuh]was then they probably wouldn't have been so offensive and probably wouldn't have been published. Sadly, that wasn't case.

Like i stated earlier; those of you who had seen that 30 days program, the one where a practicing christian tried to follow islam for 30 days, you'll have seen what the average american thinks about muslims. The actual guy it centred on changed his views after his 30 day experience and realised Islam is a peacefull religion - that was through thirty days. Imagine what nearly a thousand days of religious education could benefit children with?

The media is not the problem and blaming them won't get anyone anywhere. They reflect, not cause, community atittudes except the community is probably even more extreme.

I wasn't blaming the media neccessarily. I stated that if people stopped taking the media as God written then perceptions wouldn't be so negative. I'm fully aware of the power media holds and how it can influence people. My beef is not with the media though.

 

[north_malaysian]

It is a pity that the Malaysian government runs programs designed to make sure the Chinese and Indian communities do not produce Malaysia's own indigenous professionals!

Such as?:?

[/QUOTE]It will be a problem for some. I would miss not going to Malaysia every now and then myself. But if the entire Muslims world were locked out of the rest of the world I don't think the rest of us would miss it much.
[/QUOTE]

Very hard to do ... to lock up us from the rest of the world. But how about Non Muslims in our countries? Kick them to the seas? What should we do with their churches, buildinggs, business, fields, tmples?:?

[/QUOTE]
And as Malaysia and the UAE become more and more dangerous no doubt many non-Muslims will move out[/QUOTE].

Before the oil was found UAE was like 99.99% Muslims? But now, I think Muslim are getting smaller percentage in UAE.

[/QUOTE]
Malaysia has already lost what? 2 million ethnic Chinese and 500,000 ethnic Indians since Independence[/QUOTE]

I acknowledge that chinese and Indian are getting smaller, but 2.5 millions people are so big number. I dont know about it. Care to give reference.

[/QUOTE]
The future of the entire Muslim world looks like Bangaldesh if you ask me - surrounded by big tall fences patrolled by men with guns and no way out.[/QUOTE]

How come there are 300,000 Bangladeshis in Malaysia if there are no way out?:rollseyes

[/QUOTE]Malaysia will have such a fence with Thailand soon.[/QUOTE]
Already have it since Communist rebellion days.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

A persons interpretation of the Islamic beliefs may not fit into the established Western society. If this were the case, I think it's fair to say that he/she should graciously accept the rules they oppose, or relocate to an already established Islamic society.

Agreed, if it was unnacceptable i would appeal, if my appeal was revoked i would become a mujahir (immigrate to a islamic state)

 

[HeiGou]

Such as?:?

Starving Chinese and Indian schools of money and good teachers. Putting restrictions on how many Chinese and Indians can go to University. Denying Chinese and Indian parents subsidies to send their children to school. That sort of thing.

It will be a problem for some. I would miss not going to Malaysia every now and then myself. But if the entire Muslims world were locked out of the rest of the world I don't think the rest of us would miss it much.

Very hard to do ... to lock up us from the rest of the world. But how about Non Muslims in our countries? Kick them to the seas? What should we do with their churches, buildinggs, business, fields, tmples?:?

Non-Muslims are fleeing Muslim countries just as fast as they can. Well that is harsh. Some of them are fleeing as fast as they can, some are gradually declining as the young leave. Look at the Christian Arabs. It is unlikely that even the Copts will survive at present rates of immigration. Can you name a single Muslim country where the number of non-Muslims citizens has gone up? Most Muslim countries are trying, to varying degrees, to destroy or seize those Churches, buildings, businesses, fields and temples already. Malaysia, again a moderate country, has repeatedly forced Chinese and Indian Malaysians to hand over businesses to Malays. They deny licences to even existing businesses to force them to sell out to Malays - the bus companies being a good example.

And as Malaysia and the UAE become more and more dangerous no doubt many non-Muslims will move out

.

Before the oil was found UAE was like 99.99% Muslims? But now, I think Muslim are getting smaller percentage in UAE.

True but they are guest workers. They are not citizens. Not even Muslims can do that easily. And for a while it was safe to work in the Gulf. It isn't any more. As I said, no doubt the numbers will decrease and they will follow the example of Egypt's Greeks, Algeria and Morroco's Jews, Iraq's Christians, Bangladesh's and Pakistan's Hindus and leave.

Malaysia has already lost what? 2 million ethnic Chinese and 500,000 ethnic Indians since Independence

I acknowledge that chinese and Indian are getting smaller, but 2.5 millions people are so big number. I dont know about it. Care to give reference.

I am happy to have a dig around.

The future of the entire Muslim world looks like Bangaldesh if you ask me - surrounded by big tall fences patrolled by men with guns and no way out.

How come there are 300,000 Bangladeshis in Malaysia if there are no way out?:rollseyes

Well there is the international airport. And India has not finished its fence yet. Malaysia does not have tough rules on Muslim immigrants. Just Chinese ones. No doubt Malaysia can go on accepting Bangladeshi workers if they want.

Malaysia will have such a fence with Thailand soon.

Already have it since Communist rebellion days.

News to me.

India fences off Bangladesh to keep out Muslim terror
Dean Nelson, Dhaka
INDIA is accelerating the construction of a 2,500-mile fence to seal its border with Bangladesh amid growing fears that its Muslim neighbour could become “a new Afghanistan”.

Indian officials and western diplomats have been alarmed by an increase in terrorist attacks by militant groups linked to Al-Qaeda and by the Dhaka government’s failure to crack down on them.

One group said to have links with the government claimed responsibility for 500 synchronised explosions in 63 of Bangladesh’s 64 districts in August.

India’s cabinet has decided to speed up work on the 8ft security fence, which is intended to keep out terrorists and arms smugglers. The fence, which cuts a swathe through some of India’s densest rainforests, will be finished by the end of next year and patrolled by a border security force. Key stretches are being electrified.

Thailand will build security fences along parts of its southern border with Malaysia.

The prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, says it is a bid to stop militants blamed for attacks in the region.

He says fences will cover remote sections of the 650 kilometre border with Malaysia.

Dr Thaksin says Thai officials are talking with Malaysia about building over 100 kilometres of fences along points of the border where Thai patrols do not usually reach.

It will cut suspected escape routes used by militants in Thailand's largely-Muslim south, where violence has killed more than 60 people since January.

Relations between the South East Asian neighbours have been strained since Thai officials said militants behind the violence had taken refuge in Malaysia.

ABC Asia Pacifc TV / Radio Australia

Thai idea to fence off attacks
Thailand's Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has proposed fencing off parts of its border with Malaysia to counter an upsurge in violence.

A string of attacks have been carried out on police, government officials and even Buddhist monks in the Muslim-majority provinces.

The government has sent mixed signals over who it believes is responsible, blaming both separatists and bandits.

It fears the perpetrators may be hiding in Malaysia, though Malaysia denies it.

"I have instructed the Thai Supreme Command (military) to build a fence at sensitive points, not along the whole demarcation line," Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said after a meeting with Muslim leaders on Tuesday.

He added that it would cost about 2m baht ($51,000) per kilometre to build.

SOUTHERN THAILAND
Home to most of Thailand's 4% Muslim minority
Muslim rebels fought the government up to the mid-80s
Area beset by poverty and poor relations between local communities and officials​

Thai officials have said they believe those responsible may include separatists with dual Thai-Malaysian citizenship who cross the porous border at will.

But the spiritual leader of Thailand's Muslims, Chulatattamontri Sawas Sumalayasak, said after meeting Mr Thaksin on Tuesday that he believed smuggling gangs, and not separatists, were behind the recent violence.

"People who are responsible for this unrest are people who have lost their business benefits, not Muslims," he said.

In the latest attacks, two Telephone Organization of Thailand employees were shot dead by motorcycle gunmen on Saturday in Narathiwat province and a deputy village headman in the same area was slashed on Sunday morning, receiving serious injuries.

In neighbouring Yala province, a deputy village headman was shot dead on Saturday night and a border patrol policeman was gunned down in Pattani province. He survived and is being treated in hospital.

Mr Thaksin said he was determined to bring "lasting security and stability'' within three years, adding that all police officers assigned to that area must remain there throughout that period.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3495805.stm

Published: 2004/02/17 12:15:05 GMT​