Iranian Supreme Leader slams US presence in Middle East

[Muezzin]

Just deleted several off-topic posts. Any problems, sign the complaints register otherwise known as my PM inbox.

Many thanks to everyone who is posting within the parameters of the topic.

 

[Ramadhan]

I have to agree. Given all the posturing by the USA and the outright threats Iran has received and the invasions of not one, but 2 of Irans neighbours by the USA, I think Iran has every reason to be weary of any tourists from there or from associated nations.

Actually, Iran is still very lenient in that it still gives visa to US tourists.
Can you imagine if the roles are reserved? hell freezes over before the US gives any visa to Iranian tourists.

After 9-11, many many US visa applications from Indonesia were rejected just because the applicants' names sound too "Islamic".
I have a friend who was invited to attend an advertising seminar in the US. He is highly educated, holds very good job and have family in Indonesia, but his visa application was rejected just for the fact that his name starts with Muhammad and he was born in Kabul (his father was an Indonesian diplomat).

 

[titus]

Naidamar, the US does give out visas to Iranians.

As for your friends, while it may or may not be accurate (I seriously doubt they told him his visa was rejected because of his name), I have a very close friend of mine that has family come visit him from overseas quite often and his last name is Islam. I have never heard of any of them having any issues, and when me and him have flown together we have never had any issues.

When country A could just accuse of another for having an imaginary WMD and then attacked, invaded and occupied it, it is not really paranoia for another country who is being put in the similar position ("demonized") by country A to place travel restrictions for the citizens of country A.

Maybe, but should it work both ways?

If Iran is going to demonize the US (and finance groups that oppose it violently and make heroes out of people that took it's citizens hostage, blame everything on it including their own domestic election issues, etc.) then it only makes sense to require a chaperone for all their tourists.

 

[جوري]

Naidamar, the US does give out visas to Iranians.

Indeed, as a matter of fact they go there targeting specific people see if they can have them as spies:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/13/iranian-nuclear-scientist-seeks-refuge/
the U.S does only for its interest and not out of wanting good relations with other countries even if they vehemently deny such allegations in the ever truthful fox news..

br. naidamar is correct in all he said.. I guess you'd have to be Muslim to see how they get treated by your free and compassionate west!

 

[titus]

br. naidamar is correct in all he said.. I guess you'd have to be Muslim to see how they get treated by your free and compassionate west!

I would rather be a Muslim in the West (such as yourself) than a Baha'i or any other unapproved religion in Iran.

 

[جوري]

I would rather be a Muslim in the West (such as yourself) than a Baha'i or any other unapproved religion in Iran.

well you wouldn't know unless you were!
a hypothetical is all nice though to make a non-point!

all the best

 

[Woodrow]

I would rather be a Muslim in the West (such as yourself) than a Baha'i or any other unapproved religion in Iran.

Odd Tehran has the largest Jewish Population in the mideast outside of T'el Aviv. They seem to feel content and safe. There is also a large Yezidi population, who are diametrically opposite to Islam. A number of Christians also live in Iran.


Jewish population Iran: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

Christian Population Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran

Yezidi population Iran: http://www.religioustolerance.org/yazidi.htm

 

[The_Prince]

lol, lets all agree on something, so the few neocons on this thread can quit their straw manning. nobody denies that the iranian government does go to the extreme at times with it's rulings and ways, no one claims that its perfect, far from it. so let's get this out of the way, BUT NOW, having said that, that doesn't give you war hawk neocons the right to go and invade, bomb, and destroy the country (like you did in iraq), is that clear????????

sometimes i laugh when i hear accusations being thrown at the iranian government, just leave the word iranian out, and you would think that they were talking about the american government! if iran deserves to be invaded due to an oppresive government, then so should america, heck america should come first, as they have nukes, and have used those nukes!!!!! not to mention america has tortured, invaded, etc etc etc etc and etc.

and also back to the main article, i think most Muslims would agree with the iranian leader, about the negative american millitary presence in the mid-east, i doubt you would get a single muslim who would disagree with that. anyways, i got a flight to catch, so see you all later!!!!

 

[titus]

lol, lets all agree on something, so the few neocons on this thread can quit their straw manning. nobody denies that the iranian government does go to the extreme at times with it's rulings and ways, no one claims that its perfect, far from it. so let's get this out of the way, BUT NOW, having said that, that doesn't give you war hawk neocons the right to go and invade, bomb, and destroy the country (like you did in iraq), is that clear????????

The only straw man is the one in your argument. I don't see anyone here endorsing any attack in Iran. You clearly misconceive what is being said.

Woodrow,

I do not have the time to give you a complete reply, but suffice it to say that the Jewish population now is a small fraction of what it was at the time of the Islamic Revolution. I think it dropped from about 100,000 to currently less than 20,000 (will have to verify later). And while people of other religions do live there and are accepted tolerably well for the most part there is no doubt they second class citizens with less rights than the Muslims majority, and there are religions that the Iranian government persecutes.

From your own link:

Iran's official government-controlled media often issues anti-Semitic propaganda. A prime example is the government's publishing of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a notorious Czarist forgery, in 1994 and 1999.2 Jews also suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and public accommodations.3

The Islamization of the country has brought about strict control over Jewish educational institutions. Before the revolution, there were some 20 Jewish schools functioning throughout the country. In recent years, most of these have been closed down. In the remaining schools, Jewish principals have been replaced by Muslims. In Tehran there are still three schools in which Jewish pupils constitute a majority. The curriculum is Islamic, and Persian is forbidden as the language of instruction for Jewish studies. Special Hebrew lessons are conducted on Fridays by the Orthodox Otzar ha-Torah organization, which is responsible for Jewish religious education. Saturday is no longer officially recognized as the Jewish sabbath, and Jewish pupils are compelled to attend school on that day. There are three synagogues in Tehran, but since 1994, there has been no rabbi in Iran, and the bet din does not function.

And Judaism is one of the official religions. Other religions have it worse.

 

[Ramadhan]

Naidamar, the US does give out visas to Iranians.

I know this. What's your point?

Maybe I didn't explain it quite clearly but maybe also you are pretty slow to understand what I wrote.

maybe this following illustration will be easier for your level to grasp:

Say, for many reasons (economic, political, etc), Iran suddenly tells the world that Canada is evil, and then proceeds quickly to attack, invade and occupy canada.
a couple of years later, Iran tells the world again that this time mexico is evil, and then proceed quickly to attack, invade, and occupy mexico.
and now, Iran is again at it: starts telling the world again that this time it is the US who is really evil (meanwhile, iran is still occupying the two neighboring countries) and is positioning and building up most of its military power in areas surrounding the US.

Now, do you really think that the US will issue visas freely to Iranians and receive every iranian tourists with hula dance and shower them with flowers?

You think about it.

As for your friends, while it may or may not be accurate (I seriously doubt they told him his visa was rejected because of his name), I have a very close friend of mine that has family come visit him from overseas quite often and his last name is Islam. I have never heard of any of them having any issues, and when me and him have flown together we have never had any issues.

You havent traveled the world, have you?

I did NOT say that the us embassy rejected his visa application because of his name. and even if they did, they would never tell you.
The fact is:
My friend was over-qualified to obtain the US visa: he was invited to attend the conference, he was sponsored by his company, he has all his assets in Indonesia (extremely unlikely to stay in the US), he speaks english very fluently.
His only drawback: his name (Muhammad, followed by some very islamic sounding name) and born in Kabul
This was right after 9/11.
I was telling you this to show that the US was also behaving very paranoid during certain period of time.

Maybe, but should it work both ways?

If Iran is going to demonize the US (and finance groups that oppose it violently and make heroes out of people that took it's citizens hostage, blame everything on it including their own domestic election issues, etc.) then it only makes sense to require a chaperone for all their tourists.

So, why did you call Iran paranoid when requiring to chaperone US tourists?

A case of double standard?

AS USUAL.

 

[titus]

Maybe I didn't explain it quite clearly but maybe also you are pretty slow to understand what I wrote.

maybe this following illustration will be easier for your level to grasp:

After re-reading your post you are correct, I misunderstood. The insults and belittling are unnecessary.

You havent traveled the world, have you?

Yes, I have. I have lived in four different countries in addition to other traveling I have done.

I did NOT say that the us embassy rejected his visa application because of his name. and even if they did, they would never tell you.

You said:

but his visa application was rejected just for the fact that his name starts with Muhammad and he was born in Kabul (his father was an Indonesian diplomat).

It still looks to me like you are claiming his visa was rejected (at least in part) because of his name. If the US never gave a reason then you really have no idea why his visa was rejected and anything else would be pure conjecture. Tens of thousands of people with Muslim names visit the US each year.

I was telling you this to show that the US was also behaving very paranoid during certain period of time.

On that we can agree, and I think that paranoia still exists to a greater extent than I would like. There are many examples of people not being let in that should have.

So, why did you call Iran paranoid when requiring to chaperone US tourists?

A case of double standard?

AS USUAL.

Actually my comment was made in sarcasm. Sarcasm doesn't always come across well with the written word. I think the whole idea of chaperones is ridiculous, whether it be Iran, the USA or any other nation.

 

[Jedi]

I find Iran to be very much a paradox. It reminds me of Churchills description of Russia:

Sometimes I see Iran as being the most Western Like country in the Middle East. The people seem to have a fascination with all products American and American Tourists to Iran see a very Westernized Iran from the Discotheques to the music to the clothing. I also see many very pious Muslims from Iran, but also some very fanatical Shii. The country is a paradox often a strong allie of the USA and at the same time the most outspoken critic.

I have a strange feeling that Iran is a "closet" supporter of the USA. Just basing this on the huge Iranian population here in the USA. I believe it is safe to say that every person living in Iran has at least one relative who is a US citizen. Also Iranian language and cultural is much more like English/Germanic than it is to the culture of the Arab world. Farsi is considered to be an Indo-European language and is in the same family as English

A very Paradoxical country..

I agree!
And also think that all countries are 'paradoxical is some way or another!

 

[Jedi]

Its stuff like that makes people think your a troll - dont you know that wikiislam is an anti Islamic site??

Had my reply deleted!
So I will try and re-phrase it!
Please refute the hadiths then, that are on the wikiislam site!
Apparently anyone can go on the site and add to or change or refute articles!

The accusation of being a 'troll' seems to be the only weapon used rather than 'refuting'!
And those trying to get me and others banned.
Are it seems figuratively speaking, trying to behead non muslims who dare to ask questions!
Is that what islam does, to silence those that ask questions that my be too difficult to answer?

 

[Ramadhan]

Had my reply deleted!
So I will try and re-phrase it!
Please refute the hadiths then, that are on the wikiislam site!
Apparently anyone can go on the site and add to or change or refute articles!

The accusation of being a 'troll' seems to be the only weapon used rather than 'refuting'!
And those trying to get me and others banned.
Are it seems figuratively speaking, trying to behead non muslims who dare to ask questions!
Is that what islam does, to silence those that ask questions that my be too difficult to answer?

How many times do people have to tell you that WikiIslam is anti islam sites?
Many of the hadiths mentioned in the wikiislam are either dhaif, mawdoo, twisted or taken out of context.

Now, if you do not want people to think you are a troll, then you should stop bringing in articles from anti islam sites and if you have genuine interest in discussing certain issue, you should change your tact and start presenting it as your own.
Otherwise, your imminent departure from this board is very much expected.

;D

 

[Zafran]

Had my reply deleted!
So I will try and re-phrase it!
Please refute the hadiths then, that are on the wikiislam site!
Apparently anyone can go on the site and add to or change or refute articles!

The accusation of being a 'troll' seems to be the only weapon used rather than 'refuting'!
And those trying to get me and others banned.
Are it seems figuratively speaking, trying to behead non muslims who dare to ask questions!
Is that what islam does, to silence those that ask questions that my be too difficult to answer?

Its an anti Islamic site - there are many sites that refute the garbage that these sites talk about. Frankly its very boring now. Brother naidamer explained it well.
I dont have to refute any hadiths - they have been clearly explained if you actually bother to look for serious Islamic sources rather then relying on "wikiislam". If you had to learn about any other religion where would you learn it from?
Your still here and your head is still on and your still asking your "questions"? So far nobody has actaully silenced you.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Too late, his account is disabled. I do hope Jedi comes back with open mind and be sensible in his responses. Still then take care.

 

[Predator]

Too late, his account is disabled. I do hope Jedi comes back with open mind and be sensible in his responses. Still then take care.

Coming back will do no good , Judging from his post it looks like He joined only with an intention to attack islam and rather than to learn about it. Hence he deserved to get the boot