Iranians fired up over election

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Is everything that is published in the Western media rubbish to you?

yes it is, because the western media isnt even reporting honestly. yes iranians are demonstrating, but not against the islamic republic, or the islamic regime, they are specifically demonstrating against ahmedinjad. its like if someone in the US demonstrates against bush, it doesnt mean their demonstrating against the foundation and system of their government, just the leader. but western newspapers have an agenda and want to twist whats actually going on.

I think you are hyperventilating on your own anti-west rhetoric. You sound like this:
Tarverdi Chegine, a 35-year-old government employee, told Reuters: "We have a very brave president. I love him."

He said anti-Ahmadinejad protesters were not true Iranians. "They belong to the West. They belong to Bush. We are anti-Bush."

Hello. Bush isn't president. He's out of office, and doesn't set policy for our country any more. You can hate him all you want, but it is silly to paint all of the west with one brush, and even more ridiculous to think that those backing Mousavi are Bush-backers. It seems that we in the west understand that better than some Iranians do.
 
I think you are hyperventilating on your own anti-west rhetoric. You sound like this:


Hello. Bush isn't president. He's out of office, and doesn't set policy for our country any more. You can hate him all you want, but it is silly to paint all of the west with one brush, and even more ridiculous to think that those backing Mousavi are Bush-backers. It seems that we in the west understand that better than some Iranians do.

are you playing silly, or did you actually fail to understand my simple statement. let me repeat myself, i know bush isnt in power, but during his days in power, people protested against him, it didnt mean they were against the foundation and the system as a whole, just against him. just like now, the protests in iran are against ahmedinijad, not the actual system etc. that was the point, how you couldnt see that i dont know.
 
and yes, the article is RUBBISH, complete GARBAGE, it makes a few small sentences here and there with the quotes you just put, but its overall tone is to give the feeling that some revolution COULD take place, and everything is in the headlines, you say ignore the headlines, why? the headline is all in it. these journalists know what they are doing with the way they title the article, and with the over-all tone of the article.
 
and yes, the article is RUBBISH, complete GARBAGE, it makes a few small sentences here and there with the quotes you just put, but its overall tone is to give the feeling that some revolution COULD take place, and everything is in the headlines, you say ignore the headlines, why? the headline is all in it. these journalists know what they are doing with the way they title the article, and with the over-all tone of the article.
First in journalism, the reporter writes the story, some editor adds the headline, not the reporter. So, yes, ignore the headline when you are critiquing an artilce.

Second to say now that it makes a few small sentences here and there but that your problem is with the overall tone, means that the word "complete" is used incorrectly in describing the article. Complete means everything. You might still think it is overall garbage, but it isn't complete garbage.


are you playing silly, or did you actually fail to understand my simple statement. let me repeat myself, i know bush isnt in power, but during his days in power, people protested against him, it didnt mean they were against the foundation and the system as a whole, just against him. just like now, the protests in iran are against ahmedinijad, not the actual system etc. that was the point, how you couldnt see that i dont know.

Third, you are not repeating yourself when you say that you know Bush isn't in power. To be repeating yourself, you would had to have already said that, but you hadn't till now.

Fourth. Yes, I understood your illustration. My "Hello. Bush isn't president. He's out of office..." comment wasn't directed at you, but at Tarverdi Chegine who I quoted just before making that comment. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

Fifth. If you understood my posts you would see that indeed I (and most of the rest of the western media) get that the protests in Iran are against ahmedinijad, not the actual system. Notice I said plainly:
The reality is that the west does know this is not an attempt to replace an Islamic regime by some scular western style government.
I also quoted a number of western media outlets all giving evidence of that awareness. Why do you keep projecting on to us that we don't get that.

Sixth. I still think you are hyperventilating. I think that because you don't get that we do understand that the protests are about Ahmedinijad and not the system. I think that because you have missed that point though apparently you've read at least two of my previous posts that showed that we got that. I think that because you asserted to another person that yes yo do think that everything that is published in the Western media is rubbish. And whenever someone makes such universal declarations to paint everyone with the same brush, I suspect that they are either so bigotted and foollish that they wouldn't know the truth if it was staring them in the face or they are so caught up in the moment that they are hyperventilating and momentarily can't think straight. I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are neither a bigot nor a fool, and that the only reason you are using terms like "all", "everyone", and "complete" is because you are so caught up in the emotions of what is going on in your home country that you momentarily aren't thinking straight.

I truly hope that things do work out for you and all Iranians. That your country can resolve its internal differences with one another peacably. And that you will learn to see that there is no monolithic opinion with regard to how people in the west view Iran or any other issue in the world.

But just a final note so that you can see that we get the point that you don't think we get. President Obama was quoted in nearly all the media outlets today saying: "It's important to understand that although there is amazing ferment taking place in Iran, that the difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi in terms of their actual policies may not be as great as has been advertised.” Those who had been paying attention to more than headlines knew that before the president said so.
 
the protests in iran are against ahmedinijad, not the actual system etc. that was the point, how you couldnt see that i dont know.

We already know that! We have known that since the weekend. Somehow you don't know that we know it. From another comment on Monday:

It's clearly an Islamic protest against specifically the personality, the manner, the language of Ahmadinejad. They absolutely despise him but they do not hate or dislike the Islamic republic that they live in.

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NOTE TO WESTERNERS, PLZZZZZZZZZZ UNDERSTAND THIS: demonstrations are NOT against the ISLAMIC REGIME, they are against AHMEDINIJAD. demonstrations are NOT calling for an end to the Islamic regime to be replaced by a secular western style government.
Yeah, um, duh. :) They're chanting "Allahoo ackbar!" from the rooftops. I'm well aware this isn't about secularism vs. Islam.

Though I do think that Mousavi, Rafsajfani, Montazani (I'm probably mispelling their names) and all the clerics on "their" side tend to have a much more tolerant and open vision of Islam, and what an Islamic republic should be, than do Khameini and Ahmadinejad.

Prince, I do think the protesting has spread beyond the Ahmadinejad to include Khameini. I've seen tweets reporting on people chanting "Death to Khameini." So I don't think it's accurate to say that the people are just upset with their president and not their supreme leader as well. And I think a lot of Mousavi's rhetoric seems to question the legitimacy of having a dictator-like supreme leader (he said something like "how can one man of God's creation have absolute authority over millions"?) I also just read that one of the opposition clerics brought up the possibility of replacing the supreme leader with a council.
 
and if you dont like the condemnation then keep your nose out of iranian affairs, i am an iranian, and i am telling you and your newspapers to do that, you dont like that? too bad, its not your country, and you dont know anything about the people or whats going on. i am sick to my stomach of seeing westerners making their stupid little comments and articles about issues they dont even understand, and issues they are intentionally twisting for their agendas.

how about you go to iran and join one of the demonstrations and enjoy listening to them chanting many Islamic slogans, then come back and post your stupid articles talking about how these ppl want an end to the Islamic system and a pure secularized western version.
I will not keep my nose out of Iranian affairs.

Similarly, you ought not to keep your nose out of American affairs. The internal affairs in both of our countries affect the whole world. This protest, revolution, whatever you want to call it, is probably the most important event in the history of the world in the past several decades.

And futhermore, I'd like to do whatever I can to help the reformists. You know I'm an atheist. Know also that I recognize that the reformists are Muslims. I don't care. I support them over the government, which I think is clearly corrupt, illegitimate, and dangerous to both Iran's citizens and the rest of the world. I think the reformers, if they succeed, will make the world a far better place. We all have a common interest here.

So no. I will not "keep my nose" out of Iran. And Prince, if you are one of these protesters who's risking your life to make your country a better place, I'd appreciate it if you could PM me and let me know how I can help.
 
dont worry Mousavi isnt a radical reformist - so it wouldnt change the country radically the way some people are making out. Furthermore as stated before its not a protest agaisnt the supreme leader but Ahmenjahd - You know the iranians could have easily solved this IF THEY JUST RECOUNT the election results.
 
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"how can one man of God's creation have absolute authority over millions"?) I also just read that one of the opposition clerics brought up the possibility of replacing the supreme leader with a council.

which clearly shows that the one man isnt as powerful as everyone is making out to be - there are other clerics too which make up the council - which has the power to replace the supreme leader - but I havent heard of anyone replacing him!
 
This election and its aftermath is a disaster for the Iranian regime. Even if they manage to suppress the demonstrations, there will for a long time be this uncertainty about the legitimacy of the government.
 
This election and its aftermath is a disaster for the Iranian regime. Even if they manage to suppress the demonstrations, there will for a long time be this uncertainty about the legitimacy of the government.

whats even more crazy is that the whole thing could have easily been avoided of they just recounted.
 
whats even more crazy is that the whole thing could have easily been avoided of they just recounted.

why didnt the opposition just go with this measure through legal means? the ayatollah invited all members for an inquiry so they could discuss their problems and where they feel things went wrong. furthermore they agreed to have a recount in the areas where complaints were made.

the opposition are simply calling for protests, demonstrations, and its obvious they want to get their way through intimidation and force, and as khameini said, that is the real dictatorship.
 
what the election shows is that the regime will have to change, regardless of anyone really winning.
it does allow for elections/demonstrations etc, but then it's also oppressive.
it does have clergy controlling many aspects of government, but then many people believe in their right to do so, as it's part of most Iranians religion.
this might be dictatorship, but it's unlike any other before it, and certainly nothing like the European/former soviet Union dictatorships.

on the other hand, neither candidate is really going to change the system itself, just it's attitude towards some issues.
the young people protesting are well off middle class, and are protesting against the system more or less, hence the-subjectively-harsh treatment.
on the other hand, the rural population/poor are much more numerous, and they support ahmadi Nijad, seeing him as one who is part of the-corrupt-system, but one who is not corrupt. and thus he has their support.

it was mainly the western media's propaganda/spin that makes them make such a fuss over this, now that their perceptions have come down crashing, and to begin with, most people who voted for mousavi were not voting for him as much as against Ahmadi nijad.
 
I agree with alcurad - but nobody is re counting the results just creating more problems.
 
:sl:

Back from a 1 week vacation :D

A recount will absolutely not be the way to go, because they would have had enough time until now to make up fake votes?

This is beyond just people not wanting Ahmadinejad. In the debates between Mousavi and Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad insulted Mr. Rafsanjani (former president and a major character in the Islamic revolution AND one of the top reasons why Khamenei is supreme leader atm) and his family. Rafsanjani wrote a letter to Khamenei asking him to step in and tell Ahmadinejad to backoff and apologize. But he kept silent. Two people who've fought side by side during the Islamic revolution and have been so close to each other are now at war.

The supreme leader supports Ahmadinejad. Why? I don't know. But Ahmadinejad is just a puppet in Khamenei's hands. Now all the other candidates, along with Khatami (former president) and Rafsanjani have teamed up against Ahmadinejad and the supreme leader. This isn't just a fight between candidates. It's a fight between 2 super powers (Rafsanjani and Khamenei) both fighting to take control over the country and the people are just like toys here.
 
Call me a pessimist but i don't see light at the end of the tunnel.I don't think the protestors will win the fight.Afterall they're the ones with the cards.
 
It's a power struggle and it's anyone's game atm. People are mad because the government rigged the elections and want the true results, and the government can't let the people win, because if they do . . .Just imagine what will happen, they will be overthrown, there will be mass killings and etc... This is if the people win, if the government wins then in 4 years, everyone will boycott the presidential elections. So in both cases the government takes a big hit.
 
^I disagree.Iran's government is like a casino.Both never lose!!(At least that's what i think)
 
How can you not lose when you're facing 30 million angry people?

You don't think people boycotting the elections means anything? That's another loss itself.
 
That's just a graze.Nothing serious.Have you ever been there?(if you don't mind)
 
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