Iraq Detainee Abuse

[Muhammad]

Greetings and ,

I must say that these arguments are quite frequent in this section, and it is often the same members too. Unfortunately we cannot read all the threads in their entirety, especially since they tend to drag on quite a lot, therefore investigating who started which argument and who is to blame becomes very difficult and time consuming. Members have helped by reporting posts and these are not limited to those involved in the thread.

It has to be said that such argumentative behaviour and insults do not have a place on this forum. Many times a reasonable topic degrades into poor dialogue that leads to the closure of that thread. Please try to remain respectful and calm in your posts, despite the difficulty of this in this section. If a member posts something offensive, you should report their post so that the problem is dealt with at the beginning, rather than responding alternately until a fight has broken out.

If members do not improve on this issue, then we must give warning points to try and prevent these things from re-occurring. I hope you will all take note of this request and help to create a friendly environment with respectful dialogue, thank you .

Peace.

 

[MRR]

The fact that prisoners are civilians is completely irrelevent. Most are civilians throughout the prisons in the world. They are still criminals. When these people were captured in Iraq, I am sure a few were caught up in misunderstandings, sweeps, etc. But the vaste majority were caught actually criminals.

 

[MRR]

Personally, when I think of some of the crimes that people are locked up for, I see torture as too good for them. The punishment is never enough for murder, etc.

 

[جوري]

Personally, when I think of some of the crimes that people are locked up for, I see torture as too good for them. The punishment is never enough for murder, etc.

was it you that thought an eye for eye was barbaric? if not I apologize but this discussion went on in another forum and the poster thought punishment befitting the crime as per God's shari'a was archaic and uncivilized.... Let it be note it a non-muslim thinks torture is too good for some.....

 

[MRR]

was it you that thought an eye for eye was barbaric? if not I apologize but this discussion went on in another forum and the poster thought punishment befitting the crime as per God's shari'a was archaic and uncivilized.... Let it be note it a non-muslim thinks torture is too good for some.....

No, not me. I am all for criminals suffering more than the victim. Unfortunatly, that isn't possible in cases like murder. The vitims are the entire family, and how do you measure the suffering?
Anyway, no, not me. An eye for an eye is a good thing.

 

[Rou]

was it you that thought an eye for eye was barbaric? if not I apologize but this discussion went on in another forum and the poster thought punishment befitting the crime as per God's shari'a was archaic and uncivilized.... Let it be note it a non-muslim thinks torture is too good for some.....

Sister why bother those who are lost are nothing in this world let them carry on with there evil ways,how evil can they get thats what allah wants to see how heartless can they get..

they will never listen to sense they are lost and like to stay lost...evil doers will get what they deserve in the end...

 

[جوري]

No, not me. I am all for criminals suffering more than the victim. Unfortunatly, that isn't possible in cases like murder. The vitims are the entire family, and how do you measure the suffering?
Anyway, no, not me. An eye for an eye is a good thing.

Thank you... also let it also be noted that if the victim wishes to forgive... that too is allowed as per God's sharia'a....

 

[جوري]

Sister why bother those who are lost are nothing in this world let them carry on with there evil ways,how evil can they get thats what allah wants to see how heartless can they get..

they will never listen to sense they are lost and like to stay lost...evil doers will get what they deserve in the end...

I am hoping through dialogue there can be an understanding ... sometimes it works ... most of the time it doesn't ... under both conditions opinions of others aren't very earth shattering or mind changing.... pretty much like world diplomatic relations... lol

 

[MRR]

I am hoping through dialogue there can be an understanding ... sometimes it works ... most of the time it doesn't ... under both conditions opinions of others aren't very earth shattering or mind changing.... pretty much like world diplomatic relations... lol

Ambrosia,
thank you for your rational discussion. You will notice that you and I have little difficulty being civil to each other. I will admit that has more to do with your demeanor than mine. My point in mentioning this is that when dealing with rational, civil people, I too will be rational and civil. WHen I deal with an obnoxious fool, then unfortunatly, it rubs off on me. And recently, I've been dealing with a real ignorant, obnoxious, fool.

 

[Rou]

I am hoping through dialogue there can be an understanding ... sometimes it works ... most of the time it doesn't ... under both conditions opinions of others aren't very earth shattering or mind changing.... pretty much like world diplomatic relations... lol

Let the ignorant be sister... i have tried many times but look today when israel kills UN officals still nothing is done even while warned 10 times they still crried on...

and look at those in denial they continue blindly down the same path still protecting israel!?

unfortunatly i think muslims should wake up there will beno justice at the hands of mad men we must stop the evil from hurting our people...

and those who deny are on there path i feel sorry for themi dont wish harm on them they have enough problems without that...i just thank allah he has given me the sense to see better they day by day prove to me that our path is clearly without question the true path...

 

[جوري]

Let the ignorant be sister... i have tried many times but look today when israel kills UN officals still nothing is done even while warned 10 times they still crried on...

and look at those in denial they continue blindly down the same path still protecting israel!?

unfortunatly i think muslims should wake up there will beno justice at the hands of mad men we must stop the evil from hurting our people...

and those who deny are on there path i feel sorry for themi dont wish harm on them they have enough problems without that...i just thank allah he has given me the sense to see better they day by day prove to me that our path is clearly without question the true path...

jazaka Allah khyr.... my advise to you as a sister is to try not to get too emotionally involved with any post.... read this please...A man came to the Prophet one day and said, "Advise me". The Prophet said, "Don't become angry. Don't become angry. Don't become angry... when one of you gets angry while he is standing up, he should sit down. Then anger will leave him, and if not then he should lie down" .So let us follow this beautiful advice of the Prophet and remember that anger is from satan. If someone angers you or swears at you then don't harm yourself by doing the same, but respond in a better way as Allah says in the Qur'an "Repel evil with what is better. Then he who was your worst enemy will become your best friend." (Qur'an 41:33)

 

[جوري]

Ambrosia,
thank you for your rational discussion. You will notice that you and I have little difficulty being civil to each other. I will admit that has more to do with your demeanor than mine. My point in mentioning this is that when dealing with rational, civil people, I too will be rational and civil. WHen I deal with an obnoxious fool, then unfortunatly, it rubs off on me. And recently, I've been dealing with a real ignorant, obnoxious, fool.

I agree we should all have a rational discussion... it was ordained to us by God...Unfortunately tempers flare here and on blogs in general and I can't explain it ... when a person stands too much on the left the other has to stand too much on the right it is almost a law of thermodynamics I can't tell? Or maybe it is a psychological phenomenon that such posts bring out patriotism or religious zeal ... it is the usage of some words ... it is inflammatory from both sides... I can only combat it by reaching out for the fundamentals from the quran..

For each we have appointed a divine law and traced out the way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you He made you as ye are. So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. -- 5:48

Do not dispute with the people of the Book [Jews, Christians, Sabeans], unless it be in a way that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which has been revealed unto us, and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender. -- 29:46

O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. -- 49:13

 

[Muezzin]

We're straying into a slanging match. Let's all stay on-topic, please.

 

[جوري]

I think you both should just agree to disagree amicably right here right now TODAY.......... No one on this forum is immune from temper flares.... God knows I advise against anger yet feel the urge to pummel one or two people daily..... let's just move beyond that from this moment onward...

 

[MRR]

No, not me. I am all for criminals suffering more than the victim. Unfortunatly, that isn't possible in cases like murder. The vitims are the entire family, and how do you measure the suffering?
Anyway, no, not me. An eye for an eye is a good thing.

Thank you... also let it also be noted that if the victim wishes to forgive... that too is allowed as per God's sharia'a....

How about capital punishment? How do you feel about that? After a prisoner that has murdered someone has served any useful purpose (ie. extracted information, etc), do you see any purpose in keeping them alive?

 

[جوري]

How about capital punishment? How do you feel about that? After a prisoner that has murdered someone has served any useful purpose (ie. extracted information, etc), do you see any purpose in keeping them alive?

You know that is a good question... I really don't know ... firstly it is a hypothetical and I'd like to know what surrounds a case before I pass judgment secular or religious ... and secondly I am not well versed in the doctrine as it pertains to a judicial system ... to be honest all my learning in geared toward science not the law and certainly not Islamic law which is a very broad topic... So I couldn't give you an answer that would be consciously correct... I do know that it aims toward the victim more.…and I'll give you two examples and any Muslims bros. or sister that know a the proper hadith is welcome to jump in here and help out....
Once Omar Ibn Ilkhtab may Allah be pleased with him was walking ... and he had quite a presence about him ... so he came into a place "all of a sudden" that a particular pregnant lady was shocked by him that she miscarried and blamed him for her miscarriage .. it seemed like a ridiclous claim that he had caused her miscarriage but the judge ruled in her favor... Against Omar Ibn ilkhtab in the way of unintentional murder... I don't know if that corresponds to second degree murder?... so that is one example
And another time when someone stole the sword of Ali Ibn Abi talib, but Ali couldn't prove it was his in the court and so it was ruled in favor of the robber.....So even though there would be swift punishment for such an offense the man got away scotch free... his conscious actually led him ro return the stolen goods... which in and of itself is another rarity.. I don't know if these examples help you at all by shedding some light on how things might pan out.....but there really is a very complex judicial system that was set and I can't simply pass guesses on how it is implemented....

 

[searchingsoul]

I don't think that prison abuse and decapitation compare. Abuse it done in secret. Decapitations are done boastfully and proudly.